Guns, guns, guns

[.Pixote.]

These are the guns that brought me the greatest happiness…..

 

[Deleted member 53669]

Squirt ya sister in the garden with yer gun eh? know what I mean?! know what I mean?! *wink wink nudge nudge*

 

[Dragula]

Like Sweden and Germany last year?

We had a school shooting?

Are you sure you're not referring to Finland?

 

[Sander]

Like Sweden and Germany last year?

We had a school shooting?

Are you sure you're not referring to Finland?

No, I meant Norway. You Scandies are all alike anyway.

Also, Belgium had a school stabbing last year.

 

[Ah-Teen]

Yeah, only Japan has school stabbings tho... right?

and Mexico is a bastion of law and order being corrupted by the loose gun laws in the united states.

NRA-ILA http://www.nraila.org/Legislation/Federal/Read.aspx?id=5680

Los Angeles Times reported, "In coordinated attacks, gunmen in armored cars and equipped with grenade launchers fought army troops this week. . . . The army said it confiscated armored cars, grenade launchers, about 100 military-grade grenades, [and] explosive devices"

Grenades and explosives aren't impossible to get. You just have to campfire of dollar bills rich.

Grenade launchers in the us go for roughly 8000 dollars in the united states, BEFORE getting licensed, getting taxed, getting background checks.

I've never seen an automatic weapon for less than 1000 dollars, BEFORE getting licensed, getting taxed, getting background checks.
At that, the guns we see in mexico, are weapons that bought legally here cost 2000 - 5000 dollars, BEFORE getting licensed, taxed and checked.

Civilian AR-15s at the low end cost 600 + and usually cost 1000 +
Civilian versions of the Ak-47 can cost as low as 200 for ass quality rifles that I'm not sure I'd fire to a 1000 + for gods own Kalashnikov.

Africa you could pick up a decent, fully automatic ak for 200 bucks? Less?

"DHS officials separately question the statistic involving the origination of weapons as currently presented by GAO," DHS said. "GAO asserts that, 'Available evidence suggests most firearms recovered in Mexico come from U.S. gun dealers, and many support Drug Trafficking Organizations.' and fuel Mexican drug violence. Using the Department of Justice's Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives (ATF) eTrace data, GAO determined that about 87 percent of firearms seized by Mexican authorities and traced from fiscal years 2004 to 2008 originated in the United States. DHS officials believe that the 87 percent statistic is misleading as the reference should include the number of weapons that could not be traced (i.e., out of approximately 30,000 weapons seized in Mexico, approximately 4,000 could be traced and 87 percent of those—3,480—originated in the United States.) Numerous problems with the data collection and sample population render this assertion as unreliable."

My opinion
It would be easier and more cost effective and less illegal to import Chinese/Pakistani/African automatics and other guns into Mexican ports in cargo containers and speedboats than to sneak a couple of expensive US semi-automatics in the panels of a car.

If there is a need, the demand will be filled.

Cartels need guns, they're going to find them.

Cartels threaten individuals, bully communities and kill bystanders. The gun laws in Mexico are in no way keeping guns out of the hands of criminals, but they're sure good at making sheep out of law abiding citizens.

Utopia would not ban guns. Not because utopia needs guns, but because nobody will use them on each other.

 

[the_cpl]

Dude, i don't know what news you read. But i can assure you that if you leave Ukraine and maybe Serbia out of it, it's pretty calm down here.

I spent 20+ years in Europe. I know what is happening there. The streets and the schools are really violent there.

Anyway statistics:

http://www.nationmaster.com/graph/cri_mur_percap-crime-murders-per-capita

It's a different mentality in Europe. This coming from a culture that started two world wars might seem funny enough, but it's true...

It has nothing to do with world wars. I lived in Europe. I know the situation is the same there. Just a little bit different.

 

[Sander]

I spent 20+ years in Europe. I know what is happening there. The streets and the schools are really violent there.

There's no such thing as the Europe you're talking about. The streets and schools are largely harmless where I live, which is Western Europe. Things may be different in some countries, mostly in Eastern Europe, but you're not differentiating enough between different countries.

It has nothing to do with world wars. I lived in Europe. I know the situation is the same there. Just a little bit different.

Unless you've lived in about 20 different countries, you lived in one country within Europe. I highly doubt you know much about the day-to-day deals of all the other countries in Europe. Please stop making vague generalizations about a

 

[Dragula]

Wow. That has to be the worst argument ever. "I LIVED IN A MESSY PLACE, ALL OF EUROPE IS JUST AS BAD!!!!!"

Europe is not a country, dimwit.

 

[Blakut]

Europe is not a country, dimwit.

Yes it is, they speak France.

 

[Crni Vuk]

Yees, Crni, talk about bullshit argument.

I never said it happens daily. But it cant be ignored either.

I know the size of Germany is aprox. 26 times smaller and we have a lot less people. But still. I could have used other examples.

Oklahoma bombing ? Charles Whitman the tower sniper who killed 14 people and wounded 32 ? Beltway sniper attacks with 10 killed people and 3 wounded. The yet so famous Columbine High School massacre ... and so on and so on.

Look I am not saying guns are responsible for this things. We all know humans kill humans yada yada bla bla. But its a fact that we deal here a lot less with such kind of agression. And no I an not a supporter of Michael Moore. Moore is just a entertainer, not a serious reporter.

Come on, you have to admit that school shootings and street shootouts receive a lot of attention. And they do happen in places with guns.

Like Sweden and Germany last year?

The question is not if it happens. But how it happens. I havnt seen kidz here runing around with Teq 9s. People using explosives or machineguns etc. Usualy the homicides with weapons are quite low here. But that might be cause Germany is smaller. Anyway interesting is that if guns are involved most of the time it are small arms like hand guns or shoot guns. Particuiliarly when people run amok. They use weapons that can be "legaly" aquired and easily hidden. I would attract a lot of attention if someome decided to run around with some AK47 here on the shooting range since those weapons arent allowed in general. And I dont see a reason why a civilian should be allowed to own machineguns or assauilt rifles with rapid fire functions.But thats my personal oppinion. I think even a pro gun person can agree that a machinegun is inherently more efficient in moving down targets compared to a 9mm Beretta.

 

[Blakut]

What, Crni, you're german? I thought you were like... ukrainian or smth...

 

[Crni Vuk]

I am serbian but I live at the moment in Germany. And I am now already so many years here, know Germany that well that people dont even ask from where I come and I see this as my home now. Though you never forget from where your roots are!

 

[Ah-Teen]

Come on, you have to admit that school shootings and street shootouts receive a lot of attention. And they do happen in places with guns.

Like Sweden and Germany last year?

The question is not if it happens. But how it happens. I havnt seen kidz here runing around with Teq 9s. People using explosives or machineguns etc. Usualy the homicides with weapons are quite low here. But that might be cause Germany is smaller. Anyway interesting is that if guns are involved most of the time it are small arms like hand guns or shoot guns. Particuiliarly when people run amok. They use weapons that can be "legaly" aquired and easily hidden. I would attract a lot of attention if someome decided to run around with some AK47 here on the shooting range since those weapons arent allowed in general. And I dont see a reason why a civilian should be allowed to own machineguns or assauilt rifles with rapid fire functions.But thats my personal oppinion. I think even a pro gun person can agree that a machinegun is inherently more efficient in moving down targets compared to a 9mm Beretta.

No, its not. It doesn't fulfill the requirements of the most common criminal's needs which is concealability.

It's kind of hard to hard to hide the majority of automatic weapons. Of those automatics that are readily available(Ie automatics that can be bought reasonably and are not extremely rare) they are not easily hidden because they're mechanism is simply large.

Thats not to say it's impossible, it's just hard to do without looking like you are.

The VAST majority of gunfights with police total in shots fired 2 to 3 rounds, combined.

gunfacts.info - on assult weapons, which are semi-automatics in the style of super cool taticool firearms.

Recall the Rodney King riots in that anti-gun city of Los Angeles. Every major news network carried footage of Korean storeowners sitting on the roofs of their stores, armed with “assault weapons.”30 Those were the stores that did not get burned to the ground, and those were the people that were not dragged into the street and beaten by rioters. “You can’t get around the image of people shooting at people to protect their
stores and it working. This is damaging to the [gun control] movement.”31

Gunfacts.info

Only 0.15% of over 4,000 weapons confiscated in Los Angeles in one year were converted(to automatic), and only 0.3% had any evidence of an attempt to convert

where do you think I got this one?

Only 8% of criminals use anything that is classified (even incorrectly) as an
“assault weapon,”17 though less than 1% claimed to use these firearms when committing
crimes.18

In the drug-ridden Miami of 1980, fewer than 1% of all gun homicides were with
machine guns.

None of over 2,220 firearms recovered from crime scenes by the Minneapolis
police in 1987-89 were machine guns.

0.7% of seized guns in Detroit in 1991-92 were machine guns.

Time Magazine

The top 10 guns used in crimes in the U.S. in 2000, according to an unpublished study by U.S. Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms and obtained exclusively by TIME:

1. Smith and Wesson .38 revolver
2. Ruger 9 mm semiautomatic
3. Lorcin Engineering .380 semiautomatic
4. Raven Arms .25 semiautomatic
5. Mossberg 12 gauge shotgun
6. Smith and Wesson 9mm semiautomatic
7. Smith and Wesson .357 revolver
8. Bryco Arms 9mm semiautomatic
9. Bryco Arms .380 semiautomatic
10. Davis Industries .380 semiautomatic

I've also heard the 870 shotgun, but they're so close in operation it doesn't matter.

Before you go OH look at that huge shotgun.

Truth is most people who buy guns legally, would LOVE to have a machine gun. Because it's fun to shoot. They want one to plink with, they want one to tear up the range and show off to their friends.

Most people, the VAST majority of people, who buy guns, buy them for the fun they bring.

Do I think they should be regulated? Yes, but not to exclusion.

The truth is, automatics aren't all efficient. They're very good at killing things, but at the expenditure of hundreds of dollars of ammunition in a short amount of time.

Sure you can mow the grass with a machine gun really well, but you can only do it for about 20 seconds and you spend a hundred dollars to do it.

Crime is a business. If you're wasting money on bullets you're cutting into your profits.

 

[Blakut]

Do I think they should be regulated? Yes, but not to exclusion.

I would put two regulations:
1. No person convicted of a violent crime that has spent time in jail for it would be allowed to buy a weapon and if one is found in his posession he goes to jail
2. No person suffering from mental illness is allowed to buy or own a gun.

 

[Crni Vuk]

No, its not. It doesn't fulfill the requirements of the most common criminal's needs which is concealability.

It's kind of hard to hard to hide the majority of automatic weapons. Of those automatics that are readily available(Ie automatics that can be bought reasonably and are not extremely rare) they are not easily hidden because they're mechanism is simply large.

Thats not to say it's impossible, it's just hard to do without looking like you are.

The VAST majority of gunfights with police total in shots fired 2 to 3 rounds, combined.

gunfacts.info - on assult weapons, which are semi-automatics in the style of super cool taticool firearms.

The question is what is more effective or has more potential. And hands down a machinegun IS inherently more dangerous compared to a usual handgun.