For him to stay in power and having the cojones to do all this there has to be significant support. If not internal, there's the US. IMHO, power is best when given to several people, rather than a single god-king like Sharon or Bush.
Hamas leader pwned
- Thread starter victor
- Start date
King of Creation
Vault Fossil
Baboon, you really don't know much about the politcal world or process do you? Do you realize how difficult it is to remove someone from power? People can't just go and stage coups left and right. Impeaching a president in the US is a very time consuming and detailed process, and oftentimes doesn't even result in the removal of the president from office! Once a leader is in power, there really isn't much the people can do to stop him from making certain decisions, and that's the way its like all over the world.
JFK, the Irani shah and Nicolai II would be pleased to hear that 
It's not the fact that they stay in power that I find appalling, it's the fact that they got there in the first place. And granting all the power to a single person (yeah, that's what it is when you think of it) is sick, IMHO.
The bad thing about this is that even though that (old man in wheelchair) hamasleader was an arshole, so did he keep al-quaida off bay and did not take any support from al-quaida even when he was offered. Now when he is gone thay might take that support, and if al-quaida manage to get themself identified as friends of the palistinian cause, they might get tremendous support from the rest of the arab countries.
It all depends on the line the new hamas leaders take, i guess ,but still.
It all depends on the line the new hamas leaders take, i guess ,but still.
The bad thing about this is that even though that (old man in wheelchair) hamasleader was an arshole, so did he keep al-quaida off bay and did not take any support from al-quaida even when he was offered. Now when he is gone thay might take that support, and if al-quaida manage to get themself identified as friends of the palistinian cause, they might get tremendous support from the rest of the arab countries.
It all depends on the line the new hamas leaders take, i guess ,but still.
It all depends on the line the new hamas leaders take, i guess ,but still.
hmmmm mmm.. well.. as someone who actually lives in the discussed place(aka israel) i can say that by now the israelis have already.. ehm.. removed the guy that came to replace him.. not sure about how but they did, because he was talking too much about "retribution" for the first guy they killed, and just about bombig israel...
and.. im not sure whats going to be happening here in the near future..
if you look at these facts... future doesnt seem too bright.. apperantly.. us has big plans.. mostly looks like bush&world domination...
fact 1:Bush has his war-against-terror-campaign-thing
fact 2:Bush is an a$$hole(not related, just personal opinion)
fact 3: US vs UN competitivness..
and last but not least - fact 4:Bush will reinstate drafting after the elections this year ((sources))
hence the conclusion.. its very likely that in the very near future we'll be up to a WWIII. fun, dont ya think?
and.. im not sure whats going to be happening here in the near future..
if you look at these facts... future doesnt seem too bright.. apperantly.. us has big plans.. mostly looks like bush&world domination...
fact 1:Bush has his war-against-terror-campaign-thing
fact 2:Bush is an a$$hole(not related, just personal opinion)
fact 3: US vs UN competitivness..
and last but not least - fact 4:Bush will reinstate drafting after the elections this year ((sources))
hence the conclusion.. its very likely that in the very near future we'll be up to a WWIII. fun, dont ya think?
King of Creation
Vault Fossil
Well first off, let me agree with you ToL1K.
Bush is an asshole, pure and simple. He's pretty dumb too.
Now, I'm gonna disagree with a few things.
1. The draft will not be reinstated. I'm pretty much positive of this. Aside from the overwhelming support against the draft, as of now, the US military doesn't need any more personel. To put it in other terms: there is no shortage. We aren't fighting any enormous world wars or anything that would require a draft. Which brings me to my next point
2. World War III is not going to happen anytime soon. Most of Europe is still extraordinairily anti-war, a legacy of WWII. There is also no cause or logical reason to go to war right now. There are no mass murders or invasions of entire continents, which sparked previous wars. The chances of another world war are very slim as of right now.
Bush is an asshole, pure and simple. He's pretty dumb too.
Now, I'm gonna disagree with a few things.
1. The draft will not be reinstated. I'm pretty much positive of this. Aside from the overwhelming support against the draft, as of now, the US military doesn't need any more personel. To put it in other terms: there is no shortage. We aren't fighting any enormous world wars or anything that would require a draft. Which brings me to my next point
2. World War III is not going to happen anytime soon. Most of Europe is still extraordinairily anti-war, a legacy of WWII. There is also no cause or logical reason to go to war right now. There are no mass murders or invasions of entire continents, which sparked previous wars. The chances of another world war are very slim as of right now.
but.. there's bush.. consequences are uncertain.. i wonder how it ends up.. though i think humanity will drive itself to another world war.. eventually...
"Terrorism is the war of the poor, war is the terrorism of the rich, welathy nations" (c) Some guy's sig on deviantart
"Terrorism is the war of the poor, war is the terrorism of the rich, welathy nations" (c) Some guy's sig on deviantart
King of Creation
Vault Fossil
To_L1K said:
Not for long if the American people have their way. Just wait until the end of the year, and Bush will be gone. He's a moron.
welsh
Junkmaster
Well King, while I wish I could agree with you that GB will be gone by year end, according to the recent polls on CNN he's beating out Kerry.
When was the last time you say a Kerry advertisement? I just saw a Bush ad on CNN which made a pretty powerful case that Kerry was anti-Defense. Powerful Ad.
If I were beating, I would put my money on Bush in the Fall, and probably in a landslide.
That said, if Bush does win reelection and the Republicans stay in power there could be an initiation of the draft. One reason for it is that American forces are pretty stretched as is. In addition to fighting in Iraq and Afghanistan, we are still engaged all over the world.
Bush winning reelection would basically renew his mandate to carry out the war against terror as he sees fit, a new or stronger patriot act, more of Bush's temporary tax cuts becoming permanent, and more of Bush's other issues.
Recruiting soldiers for the draft would resolve some of the unemployment problem.
I will agree with you, a draft would be very unpopular in the US. I think most of the students would protest. But most Americans are still supportive of the war in Iraq and want a strong president to play that hand. I think Bush could do it, bring back the draft, and although it might kill the Republican party in 2008, that's still a long ways away.
I would also say I agree, World War 3 is very unlikely for anytime very soon.
When was the last time you say a Kerry advertisement? I just saw a Bush ad on CNN which made a pretty powerful case that Kerry was anti-Defense. Powerful Ad.
If I were beating, I would put my money on Bush in the Fall, and probably in a landslide.
That said, if Bush does win reelection and the Republicans stay in power there could be an initiation of the draft. One reason for it is that American forces are pretty stretched as is. In addition to fighting in Iraq and Afghanistan, we are still engaged all over the world.
Bush winning reelection would basically renew his mandate to carry out the war against terror as he sees fit, a new or stronger patriot act, more of Bush's temporary tax cuts becoming permanent, and more of Bush's other issues.
Recruiting soldiers for the draft would resolve some of the unemployment problem.
I will agree with you, a draft would be very unpopular in the US. I think most of the students would protest. But most Americans are still supportive of the war in Iraq and want a strong president to play that hand. I think Bush could do it, bring back the draft, and although it might kill the Republican party in 2008, that's still a long ways away.
I would also say I agree, World War 3 is very unlikely for anytime very soon.
welsh
Junkmaster
King of Creation said:
In fact you do. You elect a leader, you are responsible for him. He is your elected representative, your choice of executive, your chosen head of state, your elected military leader. Yes, you are responsible for him.
The mechanics of democracy mean that you don't have an immediate choice in the matter. You also have a system of checks and balances that can curtail the power of your agent should he run amock.
A president can wage war, but the Congress must declare war. Likewise the COngress can withhold funding to defense if the executive has abused his power. We also elect Congress. We also make laws that constrain the power of the President and Congress.
It was popular protests that led to the War Powers Resolution that constrained the power of the President to wage war. This was achieved, in part, by popular protest. It was also the protests against the Vietnam War that led LBJ to not run for a second term despite the fact that his "Great Society" would have perhaps created a more egalitarian and just society.
When the Americans dropped the atomic bomb on Hiroshima and Nagasaki, one of the questions raised was one of international law. Where the people of those cities, primarily civilians, responsible for the war launched by Japan? The answer has never been conclusively answered, but part of the answer is yes. They were involved in the munitions industry, their children went to fight, they paid taxes to the state, they supported the war effort. But they weren't a democracy.
That doesn’t hold up in a democracy. In a democracy the people are more responsible. If 60% of the people support GB’s war in Iraq, than the US is responsible. If the US turns its back to some third world shit hole that is facing ethnic cleansing because Americans don’t see the reason why it should get involved, than the US is responsible.
In a democracy you have the right to protest, to vote, to participate. I will not argue with you on the fact that special interests have tremendous power in Washington. That Bush gets his campaing funding from the top 1% of income earners, and of this the top 10% of that top 1%. It's true that they have more influence on decisions than do you.
But of course, one might be able to change that too if laws were passed. And the mere fact that they have so much more power than you do does not mean that you have no voice.
You can participate. You still have a free press that you can use to protest the state. YOu can organize and protest. You can write your Congressmen. You can speak your mind. Do you matter a lot, no. Do you matter, yes. And more, you are responsible because collectively you are responsible.
Take Marlene Dietrich. Here’s a German girl who spent the better part of her career telling the Nazi Party, the government of her homeland, to fuck off and that she wouldn’t play the game. Better she spent much of the Second World War dedicated doing a small part, lifting the morale of soldiers through USO shows, because she didn’t believe what her government was doing was right.
Quote Marlene Dietrich- “When the Hitler regime called upon me to return to Germany and become the “reigning queen of the German film industry’, the answer I gave them is, I think, known to everyone. What people don’t know is that I couldn’t resist twisting the knife in the arrogant hearts of those gentlemen.”
And did she regret her choice? Again quote, “If there had been no Hitler, I’d have had lots of children- an a home in my own country.” And more, “I felt partly to blame for the war that Hitler had cause. I wanted to help in ending the war as soon as possible. That was my only desire.”
This is about taking responsibility. You are a member of a community that allows you to act and participate. To wash your hands of that by saying, “I am powerless” is an act of irresponsibility.
The feeling of being powerless to make a change leads to a sense of apathy. Why should I care if I can’t make a difference. The sense of apathy allows one to be irresponsible and that lack of will allows your representative to be more powerful, because you don’t care. And when your representative becomes powerful because you don’t care enough to restrain him, then you are also responsible for the abuses of his authority. You may excuse yourself for the acts of your representative state, you may say I was blameless, or the fault lies on my leader.
But in a state in which you chose your representatives and your leaders, the blame is your, each and everyone, individually.
first of all democracy SUCKS.
the leader is a selfish prick that only wishes for power and money, and the COngress can be bought.. no one makes laws.. the congress itself makes the laws that are supposed to maintain its reliability, and then bypasses them.. and the thing is that with the democratic bullshit.. only half of the country elects the leader, as can be seen in very close election score.. well maybe 60-40, not the point... democracy as it was when the greeks came up with it is fine, but the more people's voices should be heard - the more currupted democracy gets.. and in out capitalistic world of toay.. a couple of bucks can make your voice dissappear.. the so called "we elect them, we're responsible" thing doesnt work anymore, its more like "we elect them, they play god", because no matter who you elect, he will still do what he pleases, because no one can stop him, and the only ones that can - wont, because he pays them off..
making a difference.. so you can set off a couple of hundreds of people, if you're lucky that is.. and then what? a revolution? disquallifying the goverment? protesting? all those processes take way too much time with our "modern" and "advance" democracy(which would much better be just called hypocricy) that until your protest is heard, and done going through all the legal stuff and reaches sennate it too late, because what you were protesting against went too far, or too late to stop.
im not saying i have better ideas for types of govermental structures, im just saying that the current one's.. well.. suck.
the leader is a selfish prick that only wishes for power and money, and the COngress can be bought.. no one makes laws.. the congress itself makes the laws that are supposed to maintain its reliability, and then bypasses them.. and the thing is that with the democratic bullshit.. only half of the country elects the leader, as can be seen in very close election score.. well maybe 60-40, not the point... democracy as it was when the greeks came up with it is fine, but the more people's voices should be heard - the more currupted democracy gets.. and in out capitalistic world of toay.. a couple of bucks can make your voice dissappear.. the so called "we elect them, we're responsible" thing doesnt work anymore, its more like "we elect them, they play god", because no matter who you elect, he will still do what he pleases, because no one can stop him, and the only ones that can - wont, because he pays them off..
making a difference.. so you can set off a couple of hundreds of people, if you're lucky that is.. and then what? a revolution? disquallifying the goverment? protesting? all those processes take way too much time with our "modern" and "advance" democracy(which would much better be just called hypocricy) that until your protest is heard, and done going through all the legal stuff and reaches sennate it too late, because what you were protesting against went too far, or too late to stop.
im not saying i have better ideas for types of govermental structures, im just saying that the current one's.. well.. suck.
King of Creation
Vault Fossil
welsh said:
That's absolutely not true. We elect leaders based on the proposals that they bring to the table at and before the time of election. In the case of George Bush, the American People didn't even elect him, the Supreme Court did. Also, once the president is in power, all the power that people have over the president is the power of trust. We trust that our president will make logical, thoughful decisions. This is not the case, unfortunately, with Bush. He made terrible decisions, which the American people should not be held accountable for. How many thousands of us protested going to war? Did it matter in the eyes of our leaders? Nope. Does it matter in the eyes of Ariel Sharon? Nope. It is illogical to think that you should hold an entire country and its people accountable for the actions of a single person.
And To_L1K, don't even get me started.
ACK! Use capitals, please.
And the USA has a fucked up system, really. The model that is in place i the Netherlands, Belgium and such is much better in these respects.
What, you won't move? Then accept your responsibility.
Popular control is still very much in place, partly because of such things as impeachment, partly because you will not last long if you have the nation against you.
Frist of all, you're not talking about democracy. You're talking about the republican system that is in place in the USA. It's no where near a democracy.
And the USA has a fucked up system, really. The model that is in place i the Netherlands, Belgium and such is much better in these respects.
Why do you think that it was any better in Athens? If anything, it was worse. Mainly because the only people allowed to vote were men, older than 21 who were born in Athens and had a certain amount of riches. It was actually an oligarchy instead of a real democracy.
Now this is some real crap. If you don't like the way the country is being run, you can always emigrate. You speak English, so language isn't a problem, really.
What, you won't move? Then accept your responsibility.
Popular control is still very much in place, partly because of such things as impeachment, partly because you will not last long if you have the nation against you.
Again: You're wrong. Protests don't take long, you go out into the streets and show that you disagree. If you get enough people, the people in power will listen to you, because they can't remain in power if YOU don't vote on them.
Immigrate? Where? yes i speak english, and russian, and curse on 3 or 4 other languages, but as a 16 year old kid i dont really get the choice.. neither to move freely nor to make the difference, i have to be 18 to do that, and when i reach that age, i am going to be drafted by the laws of this country.
When saying Democracy i adress the system which is used on the countries that are shown most on the media.. which are the ones where the system sucks.. when was the last time you've heard anything about the goverment of the Netherlands on tv?
Most troublesome are most popular..
I dont know how it works there, but what we got here sucks.
I dont think so, you'll need to make millions get up and take a stand.. to make your voice heard.. to actually force the goverment to do something, not just bring it up to discussion.
How many people went to the streets and protested against war? thousands, and yet the American Anti Terro Crusade carries on..
And before that.. when the americans nuked Hiroshima and Nagasaki.. were'nt there protests? were'nt there people in the streets screaming to stop the war? and what stopped it? a big irreversible mistake.
welsh
Junkmaster
To_L1k
Is it any wonder that for years after World War 2, Germans would claim they didn't know what Hitler was doing, that they couldn't control him?
That they were not responsible.
First thing you do to avoid guilt, claim you are not responsible.
By failing to take responsibility you can feel better while the rest of the world goes to shit.
That's the great thing about apathy, someone is benefitting from it because you don't give a shit.
Please. Anyone paying any attention would know that Bush was going to go to war against Iraq as soon as he came to power. Pay attention to what his cabinet was going to be and you knew where the economy was going.
Come on- GB was the son of a Texas oilman, with vested interests in the oil industry, who was supported by the Christian right and big business, and who was seen as the person that would finish off Saddam once and for all.
True, he said he wouldn't get us involved in foreign adventures (and he did avoid going to Iraq). He said he would be a gentle conservative- and his regime has been anything but. He said he would cut back on spending and pull the government back from where it didn't belong. Now we have a huge debt and a government that is spending many millions on good wholesome family values.
But perhaps we were only kidding ourselves. Look, voters are real people too. If someone smells like shit, can they honestly believe him when he says he just took a bath?
Nonsense. True the Court made a legal judgment. Look at the decision and there are allegations of wrong doing. It was a practical issue- the Supreme Court was sticking its nose in a matter of state law and the danger, having a country without a president, was a dangerous one.
But the election was close before Florida. Hell, if it hadn't been for Nader, Gore would have won. Most states it was neck and neck and if guy gets elected by virtue of the electoral college and not the popular vote, there are constitutional reasons for it.
So palming the blame to the Supreme Court isn't quite fair. Bush was close enough to win on his own. Gore took a thin popular vote. The election was close enough to say that the US got a President it wanted.
Of course if you didn't vote and could have, then you were irresponsible in not utilizing your civic right.
No. Actually you do have power. You can protest, you can write, you can complain, you can send messages, you can boycott, you can vote in elections so he lacks the power in Congress to pass the bills he wants. Let's not forget, the President is the executive, not the legislative power. You can constrain him through law. Vote, mail your congressmen, bitch and moan in your college newspaper, take up a sign and sit in front of the white house. It's a street, a public forum, you can protest there.
But if you are pissed off and don't get off your ass, probably no one will care.
But enough with this, "Oh I am so powerless" crap. No one gives you power, no one gives you rights. All this fucking Social Contract shit that says the government owes you rights, is bullshit.
No one in this country got rights because they were handed to them. Everyone who got them had to fight for them. Do something if it bothers you so damn much.
As for the voting the president because we trust him? Please. You vote for a President because you expect that he will carry out an agenda that was favored by and is favorable to his constituents.
Bush's key constituents are the very rich, the old(usually rich), the Christian Right, the poor middle class white guy who is getting fucked out of a job and his quality of life while someone lectures him about Christian family values, the owners of guns, and a few other constituent groups. The biggest of these is the No Tax lobby that only cares about how much the government takes from their check while the rest of the country gets fucked. Most of the time they are saving from taxes while the government is dicking them another way. Why? Because they are too fucking lazy to be informed.
Bullshit. I didn't vote for him and I am responsible for that idiot. Don't try to be ethical here, King, because this is not about justice. This is about paying the bills. I am responsible because I have to pay the damn bill for his economy. I have to breath the air he allowed to be polluted and I have to grieve my students who get killed in Iraq. I am responsible the air I breath, the taxes I pay, and the tears I cry.
And God knows that my sense of responsibility says that I can't vote for that motherfucker.
The problem is that so many people who did vote for him will wash their hands of him and say, "well it's not my fault how things turned out, and yes, i will vote for him again."
Damn, if you voted for Bush in the last election and don't like how things turned out, than don't vote for him again. You don't have to vote for Kerry if you don't like him. Your vote is your statement that says, "I want you to be my elected representative and to stand for my decisions." If you vote for Bush and he fucks you in the ass, than you get what you paid for.
Not enough
Sure it did. When you protest and get in the government's face it sends a message that "we don't like what you are doing and we won't vote for you next time so don't get used to that damn chair your sitting on because we are going to shove a foot up your ass next election."
I really could give a rat's ass about Sharon. The Israeli people elected him when they knew what kind of man he was and where the country would go. Now they are paying for it.
And yes, historically and practically, you do get held responsible for the acts of a single person or a group of people. Ask the people in Dresden when the fire bombs came down if they paid. Ask the people of Tokyo, or Nagasaki, or Hiroshima if they paid.
Responsibility is less about ethical duty than who gets shafted with the bill at the end of the day. We are getting shafted with this bill. And you can say, all you like, "that it's not my fault," and if it makes you feel better great. In the end you will pay anyway.
So it's better to say, "Bush is a fuck!" than saying, "Oh I didn't know" because you should have known and if you didn't you were foolish. Regardless, you will still pay the price.
Is it any wonder that for years after World War 2, Germans would claim they didn't know what Hitler was doing, that they couldn't control him?
That they were not responsible.
First thing you do to avoid guilt, claim you are not responsible.
By failing to take responsibility you can feel better while the rest of the world goes to shit.
That's the great thing about apathy, someone is benefitting from it because you don't give a shit.
King of Creation said:
Please. Anyone paying any attention would know that Bush was going to go to war against Iraq as soon as he came to power. Pay attention to what his cabinet was going to be and you knew where the economy was going.
Come on- GB was the son of a Texas oilman, with vested interests in the oil industry, who was supported by the Christian right and big business, and who was seen as the person that would finish off Saddam once and for all.
True, he said he wouldn't get us involved in foreign adventures (and he did avoid going to Iraq). He said he would be a gentle conservative- and his regime has been anything but. He said he would cut back on spending and pull the government back from where it didn't belong. Now we have a huge debt and a government that is spending many millions on good wholesome family values.
But perhaps we were only kidding ourselves. Look, voters are real people too. If someone smells like shit, can they honestly believe him when he says he just took a bath?
Nonsense. True the Court made a legal judgment. Look at the decision and there are allegations of wrong doing. It was a practical issue- the Supreme Court was sticking its nose in a matter of state law and the danger, having a country without a president, was a dangerous one.
But the election was close before Florida. Hell, if it hadn't been for Nader, Gore would have won. Most states it was neck and neck and if guy gets elected by virtue of the electoral college and not the popular vote, there are constitutional reasons for it.
So palming the blame to the Supreme Court isn't quite fair. Bush was close enough to win on his own. Gore took a thin popular vote. The election was close enough to say that the US got a President it wanted.
Of course if you didn't vote and could have, then you were irresponsible in not utilizing your civic right.
No. Actually you do have power. You can protest, you can write, you can complain, you can send messages, you can boycott, you can vote in elections so he lacks the power in Congress to pass the bills he wants. Let's not forget, the President is the executive, not the legislative power. You can constrain him through law. Vote, mail your congressmen, bitch and moan in your college newspaper, take up a sign and sit in front of the white house. It's a street, a public forum, you can protest there.
But if you are pissed off and don't get off your ass, probably no one will care.
But enough with this, "Oh I am so powerless" crap. No one gives you power, no one gives you rights. All this fucking Social Contract shit that says the government owes you rights, is bullshit.
No one in this country got rights because they were handed to them. Everyone who got them had to fight for them. Do something if it bothers you so damn much.
As for the voting the president because we trust him? Please. You vote for a President because you expect that he will carry out an agenda that was favored by and is favorable to his constituents.
Bush's key constituents are the very rich, the old(usually rich), the Christian Right, the poor middle class white guy who is getting fucked out of a job and his quality of life while someone lectures him about Christian family values, the owners of guns, and a few other constituent groups. The biggest of these is the No Tax lobby that only cares about how much the government takes from their check while the rest of the country gets fucked. Most of the time they are saving from taxes while the government is dicking them another way. Why? Because they are too fucking lazy to be informed.
Bullshit. I didn't vote for him and I am responsible for that idiot. Don't try to be ethical here, King, because this is not about justice. This is about paying the bills. I am responsible because I have to pay the damn bill for his economy. I have to breath the air he allowed to be polluted and I have to grieve my students who get killed in Iraq. I am responsible the air I breath, the taxes I pay, and the tears I cry.
And God knows that my sense of responsibility says that I can't vote for that motherfucker.
The problem is that so many people who did vote for him will wash their hands of him and say, "well it's not my fault how things turned out, and yes, i will vote for him again."
Damn, if you voted for Bush in the last election and don't like how things turned out, than don't vote for him again. You don't have to vote for Kerry if you don't like him. Your vote is your statement that says, "I want you to be my elected representative and to stand for my decisions." If you vote for Bush and he fucks you in the ass, than you get what you paid for.
Not enough
Sure it did. When you protest and get in the government's face it sends a message that "we don't like what you are doing and we won't vote for you next time so don't get used to that damn chair your sitting on because we are going to shove a foot up your ass next election."
I really could give a rat's ass about Sharon. The Israeli people elected him when they knew what kind of man he was and where the country would go. Now they are paying for it.
And yes, historically and practically, you do get held responsible for the acts of a single person or a group of people. Ask the people in Dresden when the fire bombs came down if they paid. Ask the people of Tokyo, or Nagasaki, or Hiroshima if they paid.
Responsibility is less about ethical duty than who gets shafted with the bill at the end of the day. We are getting shafted with this bill. And you can say, all you like, "that it's not my fault," and if it makes you feel better great. In the end you will pay anyway.
So it's better to say, "Bush is a fuck!" than saying, "Oh I didn't know" because you should have known and if you didn't you were foolish. Regardless, you will still pay the price.
King of Creation
Vault Fossil
Unfortunately, I wasn't old enough to vote at the time. However, I volunteered for the Democratic Campaign at the time. And when Bush was planning to attack Iraq, I wrote letters and telephoned every single person I possibly could. Christ, a senator lived next-door to one of my friends, and we knocked on his door one day and talked to him about the whole situtation. We did so many more things as well, as did countless other people. But the end result still remained the same: George Bush, disregarding the opinions and cries of countless thousands of American citizens, went and attacked Iraq. And its not just war issues that I would protest against. Economic issues, education issues, everything that I felt was wrong, I would write to the politicians, telephone them, everything. A lot of the time, it doesn't actually change the result. When issues are on a more local level, influence from people like me actually do make a huge difference. But on a national scale, with a stubborn asshole like George Bush in charge, nothing will really be able to change his mind. Once his dumb Texas ass is set in his ways, nothing will stop him. And still, though, I will protest and lobby. An enormous population of America feels the same way, and participates in the same way as I do, even more than I do. But with our current president, it doesn't seem to matter. The more we lobby and protest, the more he goes against us. I don't feel that we should be held responsible for such a regime. What Bush does, and fails to do, offends me to the core.
Ugh. You draw conclusions that can't be drawn (you don't know that drafts will be instated, and you don't know how they will be organized), but if you do not intend to or want to emigrate, then you are also responsible for your government.
Well, since I LIVE in the Netherlands I'm seeing it on television daily. And frankly, I'm really not happy with how we're doing, but I'll not run away from my responsibility or say "I've got nothing to do with that." when my government does something. Instead of whining on the the internet, perhaps you should consider doing something..
What? "Oh, yeah, let's all stop the war while we're being attacked."
No, people did not protest in the streets before Hiroshima and Nagasaki.
And yes, you need a lot of people protesting, but protesting DOES work and it DOES help: It can make people aware of problems, and it can force administrations to do something.
And think about this: If everyone thinks that their one voice won't matter, is it any wonder that nothing happens?
King: I shall say it again: If you do not want to take your responsibility for what Bush has done, then move out of the country. You may disagree with him, hate him and hate everything he does, but as long as you continue to live in the democracy that has elected him and as long as you continue to live by the rules of that democracy, you are responsible for him. Just as I am responsible for that fucktard J.P. Balkenende who's leading my country.