Now that you mention it I don't remember the BoS really brushing up against the Enclave all that much. If anything it was the pussy BoS being bitches; if they had actually wanted to help the wasteland the would've tried to put Autumn in power and worked with the Enclave to the point where they could leave/return to their old mission/fully incorporate into the new government.superking said:
Heres what I don't get.
- Thread starter Neolk
- Start date
superking said:
...
How does that prove that James knows the Enclave is evil?
Mikael Grizzly said:
if someone stormed into a place I worked and started shooting people I would think they was evil, unless I knew I was evil to start with then I still wouldn't trust the good guys to do what I was planing to do.
something about storming in and shooting your friends makes you not trust them.
I'm left with a shed-load of questions about this part of the game.
Firstly, Project Purity did nothing but purify the water, removing the rads. The code the Enclave wanted was to turn the machine on, not the auto-destruct sequence or anything.
If the Enclave wanted to destroy PP they could have just set charges and blown the facility to hell. Therefore, everyone including James would know they didn't intend that.
The Enclave already have water purification facilities. The Brotherhood do too, right? The only way PP differs is its scale. So James isn't blowing it up to prevent the Enclave having an advantage over the rest of humanity.
Why don't the Enclave let James and co perfect it and start it up, then take over operations? Why do they burst in before the thing is operational? Why would they want the codes to start it if they didn't want it started? Why interfere at all if they did want it started?
Second, how much can one vial of the virus accomplish? AFAIK, viruses only multiply in living hosts. In water, viruses don't multiply they simply stay alive. So what's a single vial of the virus going to do, in a massive body of water?
Why does Autumn shoot you if you give him the code? Because he's a walking bad-guy cliché?
Why would James rather destroy PP than have it in Enclave hands? Hell, why would he rather die than be taken prisoner?
Why does Autumn come back to life?
Why doesn't Autumn capture James and bring him back to HQ like he does with the player?
Why does Autumn let James enter the code, instead of having James tell him the code and have an Enclave soldier use the controls? Hasn't he watched any movies where the good guys sabotage their own equipment to get out of a jam? Do Bethesda really love using old movie clichés?
Why don't the Enclave guess the code? It's only a 3-digit number, after all. Not going to take too long to beat that. Don't the Enclave have engineers that could simply bypass the keypad authorisation? If the player can hack any terminal in the world with 100 science, which he/she learns in a few days wandering around the wasteland, I'm sure the Enclave could hack the PP.
Why does Project Purity even *have* a self-destruct/ overload sequence? I guess nobody has safety protocols in the future.
--
Like I said, lots of questions.
Firstly, Project Purity did nothing but purify the water, removing the rads. The code the Enclave wanted was to turn the machine on, not the auto-destruct sequence or anything.
If the Enclave wanted to destroy PP they could have just set charges and blown the facility to hell. Therefore, everyone including James would know they didn't intend that.
The Enclave already have water purification facilities. The Brotherhood do too, right? The only way PP differs is its scale. So James isn't blowing it up to prevent the Enclave having an advantage over the rest of humanity.
Why don't the Enclave let James and co perfect it and start it up, then take over operations? Why do they burst in before the thing is operational? Why would they want the codes to start it if they didn't want it started? Why interfere at all if they did want it started?
Second, how much can one vial of the virus accomplish? AFAIK, viruses only multiply in living hosts. In water, viruses don't multiply they simply stay alive. So what's a single vial of the virus going to do, in a massive body of water?
Why does Autumn shoot you if you give him the code? Because he's a walking bad-guy cliché?
Why would James rather destroy PP than have it in Enclave hands? Hell, why would he rather die than be taken prisoner?
Why does Autumn come back to life?
Why doesn't Autumn capture James and bring him back to HQ like he does with the player?
Why does Autumn let James enter the code, instead of having James tell him the code and have an Enclave soldier use the controls? Hasn't he watched any movies where the good guys sabotage their own equipment to get out of a jam? Do Bethesda really love using old movie clichés?
Why don't the Enclave guess the code? It's only a 3-digit number, after all. Not going to take too long to beat that. Don't the Enclave have engineers that could simply bypass the keypad authorisation? If the player can hack any terminal in the world with 100 science, which he/she learns in a few days wandering around the wasteland, I'm sure the Enclave could hack the PP.
Why does Project Purity even *have* a self-destruct/ overload sequence? I guess nobody has safety protocols in the future.
--
Like I said, lots of questions.
Didn't he say the BoS stopped protecting him and funding him? Wouldn't that mean.. Oh I don't know... resentment?superking said:
And ya, its not like the BoS wanted to KILL him. I mean fuck, even the BoS say that eventually the Enclave are going to figure out the code.
And HELL, look at it THIS WAY. If you don't act quick enough, the chamber explodes because of radiation. Basically dad fucked EVERYTHING UP for EVERYONE.
What a fucking twat.
Darkform said:
Except NO ONE was shot in the initial assault and it was only because of pops' Detect Alignment superpower that he found out that the Ecnlave is eeevul.
Mutoes
Mildly Dipped
Actually i did wonder the exact same thing after playing the game trough. I just took the DAD hating enclave for some kind of prejudice against the shady organisation. ( He didnt want to take any risks and they (enclave,autumn) did demand the project purity for themselves in somewhat hostile manner.)
What i didnt get was why I couldnt side with autumn, as i(PC) knew better...
What i didnt get was why I couldnt side with autumn, as i(PC) knew better...
DexterMorgan
A Smooth-Skin
Ausdoerrt said:
The more I think about it, the surer I am that this is what Todd's talking about when he mentions "immersion" - mind blank. Immersion nirvana.
Do enclave drop fingers when you have the evil-finger-perk?Corvin said:
Maybe thats how dad found it out ... I dont know ... just making up things ... you know
I mean I heard somewhere Outcast are evil! (what surprise!) since they drop fingers ...
Meh ... Ausir beat me to it
cratchety ol joe
Mildly Dipped
I will double the point that the enclave didn't exactly 'burst in guns blazing' they became hostile (shot that dumb woman...) when the person of their interest showed them nothing but hostility.
as for the BoS yeah Lyons little group of happy hippy save everyone tree huggers does (and i only realise now as i look back..) break my previous views of the BoS
--My Previous thoughts on BoS
--No nonsense, willing to shoot 1st if needs.
--Highly Secretive of information they hold.
--Willing to 'use' others if it obtains a goal of theirs.
--Quite devout (and initiates chosen for their steadfastness) in their main goals (think 'outcasts'.. staying true to their orders even when their direct command issued contrary orders.)
The new 'Lyons' group see quite against some (all) of these views.
So when it comes to crunch time in the purifier here is how I personally took things (thinking in character terms...)
Enclave, supposedly want to help the wasteland and do right by humanity (me being a 'good' char) i see this as a bonus, so here are the enclave wanting to take over (and possibly improve) the purifier..
The BoS Who have all but given up on the purifier and seem quite wrapped up in the 'dirty' part of saving humanity (I.e the role of shooting anything they don't like) not a route I as character approve of 100% (I'm playing a rather awkward ... "is there a peaceful solution..?" character.
So at that crunch point I could quite see my character bagging fists on the glass yelling "what the crap are you doing dad?! just give the dude the codes!"
I don't even conclude after the incident that the 'clave are responsible for my dads death.. lets face it he went nuts n' killed himself! (again read about my characters pretence for peaceful solutions..)
This whole scenario stinks of a plot hole large enough to form its own gravity well.
as for the BoS yeah Lyons little group of happy hippy save everyone tree huggers does (and i only realise now as i look back..) break my previous views of the BoS
--My Previous thoughts on BoS
--No nonsense, willing to shoot 1st if needs.
--Highly Secretive of information they hold.
--Willing to 'use' others if it obtains a goal of theirs.
--Quite devout (and initiates chosen for their steadfastness) in their main goals (think 'outcasts'.. staying true to their orders even when their direct command issued contrary orders.)
The new 'Lyons' group see quite against some (all) of these views.
So when it comes to crunch time in the purifier here is how I personally took things (thinking in character terms...)
Enclave, supposedly want to help the wasteland and do right by humanity (me being a 'good' char) i see this as a bonus, so here are the enclave wanting to take over (and possibly improve) the purifier..
The BoS Who have all but given up on the purifier and seem quite wrapped up in the 'dirty' part of saving humanity (I.e the role of shooting anything they don't like) not a route I as character approve of 100% (I'm playing a rather awkward ... "is there a peaceful solution..?" character.
So at that crunch point I could quite see my character bagging fists on the glass yelling "what the crap are you doing dad?! just give the dude the codes!"
I don't even conclude after the incident that the 'clave are responsible for my dads death.. lets face it he went nuts n' killed himself! (again read about my characters pretence for peaceful solutions..)
This whole scenario stinks of a plot hole large enough to form its own gravity well.
Trithne
Still Mildly Glowing
The problem is the railroading. I hated that part simply for the feeling of "Ok, let's just stand here and watch Beth's plot unfold".
I think if in the game the end would have tourned out that the (Bethesdian) BoS would have been the "real" bad guys and the enclave more or less neither good or bad (you know the vault city type of people) and eventualy even with a good side inside and the Outcasts expose them self as REAL BoS the game might have been a lot more apealing. At least to me. I love it when plots have logical twists inside you just cant predict or foresee ... But sadly ... I cant remember anymore form who was this quote but "never lie to the player". And thast how Bethesda makes their stories.
Rev. Layle
A Smooth-Skin
Except lying to the player's character in the context of the story is an excellent way to build tension and plot.
As much as Bioshock is a current-gen FPS rehash of SS2 (primarily gameplay-wise), the plot twist half-way through that game was brilliant and it relied on lying to you/your character/Jack HEAVILY.
As much as Bioshock is a current-gen FPS rehash of SS2 (primarily gameplay-wise), the plot twist half-way through that game was brilliant and it relied on lying to you/your character/Jack HEAVILY.
Yes I think the same way.Rev. Layle said:
But the issue is that its Bethesdas policy to never ever allow NPCs to lie to the player or steal something from him. For what ever reason. I just cant remember from who was the quote again, would have to search around the codex for that since from there is it where I have read it. But I know it was not Todd Howard. But in my eyes this is a pretty stupid concept for ANY story or game. Not just RPGs in particulary but here it is important cause if you dont allow certain NPCs to deliberately lie to the player how do you ever want to even achieve a twisted plot? You would limit your self and the team of writters heavily in their work. How nice would it have been for example if Mr. Burke in Megaton would have lied to the player about the citizens of Megaton, that they HAVE to be whipped out and you could only realize that with your character if you invested either much in spech or intelligence. Emidiately the situation becomes a lot more realistic and authentic at some point compared to how the real situation is in the game.
[I can only suspect they think lidle Timy might not handle it. I dont know]
Slaughter Manslaught
Vault Senior Citizen
Trithne said:
Correction: "Ok, let's just stand here and watch as Pops has a horrible radiactive death because he was accosted by three idiots you could kill in half a minute. Oh, and before you think of breaking the glass, it's bullet proof. AND PUT THAT FATMAN AWAY, the glass is also Nuke Proof."
Meanwhile, some years ago...
Catherine: James, we're going to buy Glass in Rivet City, should we buy bulletproof glass?
James: Bulletproof? Cathy, please. Buy that ANTI-NUKE GLASS I saw Pinkerton selling.
Catherine: What? Anti-Nuke Glass? Why you need it, James? Are you fearing being nuked or something...
James: Lemme just say I got a instinct. Trust me, with all those idiots with Fatmans, exploding cars and Super Mutants roaming around, we are going to need this one time or another.
Catherine: I trust your instincts, dear...
James: Also, go to Dr. Li on the way out and tell her to install the Radiation Overload option as soon as she can.
Catherine: Sure... *laughs*
Some years later...
James: So, my son is behind the glass, armed with a Laser Rifle and he just dispatched two soldiers on his way to here. He could kill that dude from Alabama and his goons in a minute. I just saw him shooting a mini-nuke at the glass. Useless effort, it seems. Damnit, why I told Catherine to buy that fucking Anti-Nuke glass? These guys are EEEEVUL. I can detect it. They want my Purifier. MY PRECIOUS. MINE. MINE. If I can't have it, no one will. This is why I installed the Radiation Overload. They mocked me for a week. Now who's laughing? Ok, let's do this. Suck on this, Colonel Alabama!