How do communists want to enforce their ideology?

Shaodeus

Shaodeus

Still Mildly Glowing
How would they prevent people from starting their own businesses, selling and trading with each other. I have heard a lot of communists talk about how oppressive capitalism is but how do get a communist society without oppression?
 
Is my country Finland a "communist society"? I sometimes hear people in the States refer to Nordic countries as "socialist" etc. When they hear about the good benefits etc. in the Nordic countries they usually don't believe them. Yes, we have relatively high taxes but we get our money's worth for them. Also not saying Nordic countries or Finland are perfect, far from it.

Tell me about how 'kind' US has been throughout it's history?
 
Pure ideologies never work because they require strong foundations and rules in society. Humans are a species of apes, so making them adhere to one thing will not work, you have to have a flexible system that can incorporate and mix various ideas.
 
They do it through magic.

And an oppressive and violent system. However this is only necessary for the early stages, as sweatshops are necessary for globilization and wealth. Good only comes through suffering.
 
How do government prevent poaching, smuggling, counterfeit, killing, torturing, 25 hours work day, child labor, slavery, etc...? By laws, and enforcing them with a police force, and a justice system. Now do the same with business, and trading, declare them illegal.

You might say that killing is by nature a crime, intrinsically evil and inherently immoral, but that isn't true, nor that business is by nature legal, intrinsically good, and inherently moral. Society decide what is good, and what is evil.

More seriously, communism is not opposed to business, or trading. The idea of communism is to have the mean of production in the hands of community of workers instead of the hands of a little group of persons known a capitalist. A communist workers factory is a business, and will eventually trade to get resources for it's production, and exchange it's product for what it need to exist with other communities. It's the direct control of the work by workers, otherwise known as economic freedom.
 
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Doesn't really matter how Communists want to enforce their ideology because it has never worked and it never will work. Every single Communist country is either in ruins, a horrible place to live, or no longer exists. There's a reason why the only 2 countries still claiming they're Communist are North Korea and China. And even China is starting to take on Capitalistic values thanks to the youth rebelling against their freedom being stolen by the government. In fact, China recently tried to restrict cellphone usage to access outside sources such as American News. It's disgusting.

See here: http://www.nytimes.com/2011/03/22/world/asia/22china.html?_r=0
 
Ragemage said:
Doesn't really matter how Communists want to enforce their ideology because it has never worked and it never will work. Every single Communist country is either in ruins, a horrible place to live, or no longer exists. There's a reason why the only 2 countries still claiming they're Communist are North Korea and China. And even China is starting to take on Capitalistic values thanks to the youth rebelling against their freedom being stolen by the government. In fact, China recently tried to restrict cellphone usage to access outside sources such as American News. It's disgusting.

See here: http://www.nytimes.com/2011/03/22/world/asia/22china.html?_r=0
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Well...

Every communist country came out of a shitty time period. Also you forgot Cuba, which was doing pretty well (healthcare is free and great) though the economy is weak not due to communism but because of economic sanctions by the US.

But let me explain...

Soviet Union, came out of a revolution, civil war and two consecutive world wars as well. The country had to go through an intense industrialization period, weakening the living conditions further. Massive opposition from foreign countries in economic and political warfare weakened it further.

China came through after a civil war, war and another civil war. It had a shitty start that again forced mass industrialization. It only survived because it needed to become capitalist after the fall of the USSR, one of it's big trading partners.

Pretty much all other communist countries had the same problem. Famine, civil war, war and worse leading to a weak economy or bad living conditions. Communism failed because it had a bad start every time.
 
Well American News is rubbish, so that not like it's a loss. :)

For as to why communism never worked, maybe it never had been tried, either because of repressive counter revolution, or failure from the revolutionaries for various reason (personal ambition, poor understanding of what they are doing, human weakness, or whatever the fuck, and to had on top of that, nobody ever managed to form a successful true communist society yet, which means that there is no text book on how to succeed in your revolution, and how to tell what you are doing right or wrong, so you are just going blind not knowing what the fuck you are doing). I have yet to see a stateless, classless, society in History. China and Best Korea as example you've mentioned as communist country are at best defined as Totalitarian Collectivist, although China is more a Single Party Republic with State Capitalism.

But that may just be because of how humans work, maybe if humans weren't biological organism which evolved by Natural Selection roulette, it would have worked better, or if we develop sociology and psychology a bit more and then manage to design through education and social engineering the perfect homo communismus who will naturally form perfect socialist society without pain.

The best we have of socialist/communist worker units are worker's cooperative (you might even have some in your region), autonomous community (which you will notice are filled with insufferable hippies, or bourgeois pretending to be socialist), or some primitive tribal village.
 
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Dr Fallout said:
Well...

Every communist country came out of a shitty time period. Also you forgot Cuba, which was doing pretty well (healthcare is free and great) though the economy is weak not due to communism but because of economic sanctions by the US.
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Healthcare is great for rich foreginers visiting, and you forget how well Cuba's economy was doing before the revolution.
Pretty much all other communist countries had the same problem. Famine, civil war, war and worse leading to a weak economy or bad living conditions. Communism failed because it had a bad start every time.
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But why did capitalist countries recover from their civil wars far more efficiently?


And even if it was the most efficient system in the world, that wouldn't make it any less immoral.
 
The brothel and other mafia industries were certainly flourishing in Batista's Cuba. He also liked imprisoning and torturing his critics etc .

I believe that there is no country in the world including any and all the countries under colonial domination, where economic colonization, humiliation and exploitation were worse than in Cuba, in part owing to my country's policies during the Batista regime. I approved the proclamation which Fidel Castro made in the Sierra Maestra, when he justifiably called for justice and especially yearned to rid Cuba of corruption. I will even go further: to some extent it is as though Batista was the incarnation of a number of sins on the part of the United States. Now we shall have to pay for those sins. In the matter of the Batista regime, I am in agreement with the first Cuban revolutionaries. That is perfectly clear.

— U.S. President John F. Kennedy, to Jean Daniel, October 24, 1963
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MutantScalper said:
The brothel and other mafia industries were certainly flourishing in Batista's Cuba. He also liked imprisoning and torturing his critics etc .
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Prostitution isn't immoral. Communism is.

For all his sins, Batista wasn't half the murderer and torturer Che and Fidel were.

JFK saying that Batista sucked four years after he was overthrown doesn't really mean anything, it's a diplomatic move.
 
Wow . Batista worse than guevara . I didn't think fallout fans where so right-wing .


Anyway , this question ( how ) is what has divided many philosophical movements so let's just say it depends on the communist . If you're really interested in the matter you should probably do some reading about it . Suffice it to say the concept of socialism/communism/anticapitalism ( which is much broader than you might thing ) is not as stupidly brutal as you make it sound , or else it would not have been supported by some of the brightest minds of the 19th and 20th century . I'm not saying you should agree with it , but you should definitily give it more thought .
 
Gulags. Put any person opposing your ideology in one of those fine vacation camps and watch him die. Worked wonders for Soviets or North Koreans alike, would work again in any communist regime, until oppressed folks would wake up and start good old revolution.

NSFW, hand-drawn pictures from book written by former gulag guard:
http://www.cvltnation.com/brutal-drawings-from-the-gulag/
Look at translated descriptions below any picture for further details.
 
Communism shouldn't have been made into an actual political movement, it works well as an ideal but the moment it was made real it sucked. It's like trying to adapt the Republic into an actual government, is it a good idea? Sure, would it ever actually work? Fuck no.
 
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