How do communists want to enforce their ideology?

[Atomic Postman]

I find it somewhat amusing how with communists, as soon as an attempted communist society goes wrong (because surprise surprise, it's not that great of a system) it's suddenly "not true communism" and that "real communism doesn't work like that, it's different.".

Always vague and illusive as to what "real communism" is and how it can actually be achieved outside of their own deluded fantasies.

 

[Dr Fallout]

Healthcare is great for rich foreginers visiting, and you forget how well Cuba's economy was doing before the revolution.

The economy was doing well because a) no fucking sanctions! b) American businesses can exploit cheap labor easy.

But why did capitalist countries recover from their civil wars far more efficiently?


And even if it was the most efficient system in the world, that wouldn't make it any less immoral.

They didn't, the only example is the US, but in comparison to the conflicts in Russia and China it was a clean and polite affair.

And even if it was the most efficient system in the world, that wouldn't make it any less immoral.

Commies take mu guns!

 

[Dr Fallout]

I find it somewhat amusing how with communists, as soon as an attempted communist society goes wrong (because surprise surprise, it's not that great of a system) it's suddenly "not true communism" and that "real communism doesn't work like that, it's different.".

Always vague and illusive as to what "real communism" is and how it can actually be achieved outside of their own deluded fantasies.

That's because it's not communism. Before you make fun of it... actually learn what the fuck it is.

It's not vague, it's idealistic. But seriously, learn what it is. It helps you look less like an idiot and more like an unbiased and smarter commentator.

 

[AskWazzup]

It's not vague, it's idealistic. But seriously, learn what it is. It helps you look less like an idiot and more like an unbiased and smarter commentator.

Well it would be more fruitful if you started the ball rolling with explaining what it is and which branch of it you are following, as it's a complicated term:



https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_communist_ideologies

 

[Dr Fallout]

Well it would be more fruitful if you started the ball rolling with explaining what it is and which branch of it you are following, as it's a complicated term:



https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_communist_ideologies

Right, but thanks for doing that anyway. Also keep in mind that many of the primary dictators didn't even follow their own ideologies. America is a democracy but depressingly shows little signs of being a government run by the people for the people.

 

[AskWazzup]

Right, but thanks for doing that anyway. Also keep in mind that many of the primary dictators didn't even follow their own ideologies. America is a democracy but depressingly shows little signs of being a government run by the people for the people.

I don't think there are any one pure ideology that was followed to its completion, people just don't work that way. As long as we are driven by our bodily needs and emotion, we will have to make compromises everywhere and be flexible.

 

[Dr Fallout]

I don't think there are any one pure ideology that was followed to its completion, people just don't work that way. As long as we are driven by our bodily needs and emotion, we will have to make compromises everywhere and be flexible.

That is true, however we shouldn't compromise for the sake of power and greed.

 

[Atomic Postman]

That's because it's not communism. Before you make fun of it... actually learn what the fuck it is.

It's not vague, it's idealistic. But seriously, learn what it is. It helps you look less like an idiot and more like an unbiased and smarter commentator.

Oh, I know what it is. I'm very familiar with the history of the USSR and I'm familiar with how horrifically destructive communist ideology ended up being.

If that isn't actual communism, instead of just calling me ignorant and deflect the topic at hand, why don't you explain what "actual" communism is from your own obviously detailed knowledge.

 

[Dr Fallout]

Oh, I know what it is. I'm very familiar with the history of the USSR and I'm familiar with how horrifically destructive communist ideology ended up being.

If that isn't actual communism, instead of just calling me ignorant and deflect the topic at hand, why don't you explain what "actual" communism is from your own obviously detailed knowledge.

That wasn't ideology, that was Stalin's attempt at absolute power and quick industrialization. He starved millions of Ukrainians to make the rest work harder, in his attempts at maximizing results from everywhere. He purged generals not only on their disloyalty or his own imagination, but to cut out the weak (in his eyes). Communism doesn't equal death and destruction. People like Karl Marx would be turning in their graves if they saw what Stalin did. It's people that corrupt communism. But sure, all communism is evil, down with the commies!

This is communism.
'a theory or system of social organization in which all property is owned by the community and each person contributes and receives according to their ability and needs.'
Now is Stalin's maniacal but effective reign communism? In some ways yes, but blaming the ideology for the fault of people is ignorant and baseless. You don't need to be communist to be a dictator.

 

[Atomic Postman]

That wasn't ideology, that was Stalin's attempt at absolute power and quick industrialization. He starved millions of Ukrainians to make the rest work harder, in his attempts at maximizing results from everywhere. He purged generals not only on their disloyalty or his own imagination, but to cut out the weak (in his eyes). Communism doesn't equal death and destruction. People like Karl Marx would be turning in their graves if they saw what Stalin did. It's people that corrupt communism. But sure, all communism is evil, down with the commies!

This is communism.
'a theory or system of social organization in which all property is owned by the community and each person contributes and receives according to their ability and needs.'
Now is Stalin's maniacal but effective reign communism? In some ways yes, but blaming the ideology for the fault of people is ignorant and baseless. You don't need to be communist to be a dictator.

No, but there does seem to be a correlation between the two wouldn't you agree? Each time it has been attempted, it has ended the same way. Yes, the pure ideology of communism may be different to the practices of Mao and Stalin, but might that not be because the ideology itself is an inapplicable failure that inevitably leads to the corrupt, authoritarian nightmare that every communist country has historically been.

 

[Dr Fallout]

No, but there does seem to be a correlation between the two wouldn't you agree? Each time it has been attempted, it has ended the same way. Yes, the pure ideology of communism may be different to the practices of Mao and Stalin, but might that not be because the ideology itself is an inapplicable failure that inevitably leads to the corrupt, authoritarian nightmare that every communist country has historically been.

You're right... they've all suffered civil wars, revolution, lack of industry and war torn areas, including international opposition, economic sanctions, threat of coups and military juntas and other problems besides. Aka, they've all had a shitty start. As I've said, making a utopia out of hell is a lot harder then making a utopia out of say a Scandinavian country.

So while your dream little world may just involve simple communism as being the root cause of all evil, reality is a bit different.

 

[Izak]

Hey, is there anyone here who actually lived in a communist country? I know we have a couple of Chinese users, but they never really reached the same level of communism as the USSR; anyone from Russia or, East Germany or, wherever?

 

[Dr Fallout]

Hey, is there anyone here who actually lived in a communist country? I know we have a couple of Chinese users, but they never really reached the same level of communism as the USSR; anyone from Russia or, East Germany or, wherever?

I'm from Russia, though I live in Australia now. My parents and grandparents lived in the USSR.

 

[Izak]

Were you in Russia when the communist doctrines were in use?

 

[Atomic Postman]

You're right... they've all suffered civil wars, revolution, lack of industry and war torn areas, including international opposition, economic sanctions, threat of coups and military juntas and other problems besides. Aka, they've all had a shitty start. As I've said, making a utopia out of hell is a lot harder then making a utopia out of say a Scandinavian country.

So while your dream little world may just involve simple communism as being the root cause of all evil, reality is a bit different.

Of course, no democratic country has had civil wars, famine or economic ruin. That's the real reason why communist societies have ended up being corrupt and monstrous.

I don't think communism is the root of all evil. I just think its a failed ideology that is irrelevant in the modern world as history has proven it to be inapplicable to reality.

 

[Dr Fallout]

Were you in Russia when the communist doctrines were in use?

Yes, but I was a kid back then.

 

[Dr Fallout]

Of course, no democratic country has had civil wars, famine or economic ruin. That's the real reason why communist societies have ended up being corrupt and monstrous.

I don't think communism is the root of all evil. I just think its a failed ideology that is irrelevant in the modern world as history has proven it to be inapplicable to reality.

They never had it as bad as the communist countries. And the democracies that did have it as bad... are still shitty! America hasn't had a civil war since ages, and that was tame compared to the Chinese civil war and the Russian civil war. Oh it was bloodier, but not as brutal. There were two clearly defined combatants. Not so in the Sino-Soviet civil wars. There were cossak warlords, communist warlords, white warlords, Chinese warlords, foreign invaders, a fucking Czech unit in Siberia and more besides.

Who knows? It never had the greatest of beginnings. Maybe if it peacefully took power in a well off country it could work... but that's not going to happen anytime soon.

 

[Ragemage]

Not every single Communist country has come about from revolution. Cambodia became Communist through election of Communism-supporting leaders due to Vietnam starting a Communist revolution right next door.

And then what happened? Pol Pot took over peacefully, there was no revolution/war in Cambodia, yet Pol Pot ended up committing mass genocide against his own people. Marx wrote religion was the "opium of the masses" and could have no place in a utopia, because he wasn't very bright. So Pol Pot proceeded to torture many of the large Buddhist population in Cambodia, execute them, or turn temples into gulags/torture chambers. He then proceeded to commit a similar atrocity compared to Stalin slaughtering most of his high-ranking military officials. Pol Pot ended up executing most if not all of the left leaning government officials still left once he took power.

Many many more horrible acts were committed by Pol Pot, all because of him trying to enforce Communism on his country. Is Communism inherently bad? Not necessarily. The problem is that humans are just incapable of pulling it off correctly. It will never work because a classless system is sadly just impossible, and trying to make it so always results in 1 man having all the power. That 1 man then proceeds to go mad with power and kill everyone. Happened with Stalin, happened with Mao, happened with Pol Pot, happened with Castro, happened with Ho Chi Mihn, and so forth and so on.

 

[Dr Fallout]

Not every single Communist country has come about from revolution. Cambodia became Communist through election of Communism-supporting leaders due to Vietnam starting a Communist revolution right next door.

And then what happened? Pol Pot took over peacefully, there was no revolution/war in Cambodia, yet Pol Pot ended up committing mass genocide against his own people. Marx wrote religion was the "opium of the masses" and could have no place in a utopia, because he wasn't very bright. So Pol Pot proceeded to torture many of the large Buddhist population in Cambodia, execute them, or turn temples into gulags/torture chambers. He then proceeded to commit a similar atrocity compared to Stalin slaughtering most of his high-ranking military officials. Pol Pot ended up executing most if not all of the left leaning government officials still left once he took power.

Many many more horrible acts were committed by Pol Pot, all because of him trying to enforce Communism on his country. Is Communism inherently bad? Not necessarily. The problem is that humans are just incapable of pulling it off correctly. It will never work because a classless system is sadly just impossible, and trying to make it so always results in 1 man having all the power. That 1 man then proceeds to go mad with power and kill everyone. Happened with Stalin, happened with Mao, happened with Pol Pot, happened with Castro, happened with Ho Chi Mihn, and so forth and so on.

Cambodia? Was Cambodia a really good example? It suffered from a poor economy, lot's of poverty and low living standards. And again, Pol Pot is a worse example. He's obviously never heard of communism in the first place. While Stalin pretended to support it, Pol Pot ignored it entirely. Also, because you're religious doesn't make Karl Marx wrong. Religion is the opium of the masses, but that doesn't mean it's inherently bad. Religion is a way out, a promise of a better life. It's why Christianity succeeded where the Aztec faiths failed even in their own empire. Would you rather believe in a religion that promised heaven simply by being holy, or one where you had to sacrifice Humans? Pol Pot used communism as an excuse to gain power, but soon ditched it for his dictatorship. Nothing he has done is supported by communism.

 

[Izak]

Didn't Pol Pot commit genocide in an attempt to return to an agrarian society? It's not like that's in line with communist doctrine, you can be an industrial communist as well, Pol Pot was just a virulent asshole that wanted all the power to himself, not a communist.
On that note, isn't there some belief about there needing be a new type of man for communism to work?