How many ghouls/super mutants do you guys estimate there are?

Discussion in 'General Fallout Discussion' started by ElloinmorninJ, Oct 18, 2020.

  1. ElloinmorninJ

    ElloinmorninJ Look, Ma! Two Heads!

    333
    Jun 25, 2019
    I’ve always wondered this: how many ghouls and super mutants do you guys estimate there are in the Wasteland? Just estimate
     
  2. Aurelius Of Phoenix

    Aurelius Of Phoenix Unoriginal; Pseud; Talentless; Racist

    555
    Mar 9, 2018
    Going by the original games, I'd say a thousand ghouls since I recall vault capacities being around a thousand. For Super Mutants, I'd wager a few thousand since The Master had about 60 years to create mutants; though with the success rates being about 15-20% I wouldn't be surprised with a number hovering just below a thousand.
     
  3. Gizmojunk

    Gizmojunk Half-way Through My Half-life

    Nov 26, 2007
    Death by violence and misadventure would have trimmed the numbers quite a bit in 220 years; 304 years if you count New Vegas.
     
  4. ElloinmorninJ

    ElloinmorninJ Look, Ma! Two Heads!

    333
    Jun 25, 2019
    Oh yeah, that brings up something: Do you guys believe there were only the 1,000 ghouls from Vault 12, or more?
     
  5. Gizmojunk

    Gizmojunk Half-way Through My Half-life

    Nov 26, 2007
    I got the very strong impression that Necropolis was the origin of the Ghoul—as an entity in the game setting. So there should only have been about a thousand at most.
     
  6. naossano

    naossano So Old I'm Losing Radiation Signs

    Oct 19, 2006
    As much as the plot demand...
    Considering the low amount of new ones and the centuries that have passed, they shouldn't be more than a couple of hundreds, but i can accept as high as 10 000, to an extreme of 100 000 in the whole continent.

    But, i wouldn't want any swarm of them past Fo2 era. FoT and Fobos could get around this as they are earlier in the timeline, but by Fo2, it feels like their population is kind of low, with a couple of settlements, a few of them integrated in normies societies, and a couple of nomads.

    It pained me that you could encounter and slaughter so many of them in Fo3. If they were constantly fighting people, their loss would be to high to sustain the remaining population. They should definitely be a rare occurence by now, and you should mostly encounter the peacefull ones or those smart enough to not attack anyone on sight. Those who attack on sight should have been dealt with long ago.
     
  7. TorontoReign

    TorontoReign Gender Fluid Skeleton Man Staff Member Moderator

    Apr 1, 2005
    I estimate approximately 1,234,592 ghouls are scattered across the globe. After all you can't have a Fallout in China without ghouls and a local BoS chapter.
     
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  8. naossano

    naossano So Old I'm Losing Radiation Signs

    Oct 19, 2006
    The whole chinese population became ghouls.
     
  9. Gizmojunk

    Gizmojunk Half-way Through My Half-life

    Nov 26, 2007
    As much as I'd not want that in the setting... that fits. Their entire [modern day] culture was shaped by that aftermath. They are the only post apocalyptic culture on Earth to date—not counting islanders devastated by lava eruptions, and Bikini of course.

    In Fallout's setting, they would have had fearful exposure, and their own cinema shows the result of their cultural fears.
     
  10. Atomic Postman

    Atomic Postman Vault Fossil

    Mar 16, 2013

    Uh, are you sure you're referring to China here?
     
  11. Gizmojunk

    Gizmojunk Half-way Through My Half-life

    Nov 26, 2007
    Japan—the bomb; and no, I was thinking of Japan; they would have been hit too.

    *This reminds me of that scene from one of the Zatoichi films... where [IIRC] he and a Chinese swordsman are holed up in a shack, and the man gives him an eggroll—to which he says after tasting, "There is no egg in this!". ( Language barrier, and 'egg on face' reference. ;) )
     
    Last edited: Oct 20, 2020
  12. ElloinmorninJ

    ElloinmorninJ Look, Ma! Two Heads!

    333
    Jun 25, 2019
    So here’s my population count:

    if ALL ghouls actually come from Necropolis: There’s a few hundred, maybe 500.

    If all ghouls don’t come from Necropolis (more likely): could thousand ghouls, maybe 4,000 across the US.

    Supermutants: 3,000

    (these numbers are completely out of my ass)
     
  13. Gizmojunk

    Gizmojunk Half-way Through My Half-life

    Nov 26, 2007
    Why exactly?
     
  14. Atomic Postman

    Atomic Postman Vault Fossil

    Mar 16, 2013
    Outside of meta-level matters of taste, i.e your thoughts on Fallout being a tabletop oneshot, there isn't a huge amount to indicate that Ghouls are entirely unique to Necropolis. Considering that there's no explicit reference to that and they were going to explicitly abandon this idea with Van Buren (The Reservation) and eventually did so with New Vegas.

    Mind you, I still think they should be far more of a rarity than they are as of New Vegas canon. Though I think this sharing of ideas has been hashed out more than enough times on NMA.
     
  15. ElloinmorninJ

    ElloinmorninJ Look, Ma! Two Heads!

    333
    Jun 25, 2019
    Maybe it is what the creators intended in 1997, but the game’s have changed. I think Necropolis was more of a hotspot of ghoulification than the sole location nowadays
     
  16. ElloinmorninJ

    ElloinmorninJ Look, Ma! Two Heads!

    333
    Jun 25, 2019
    I don’t like the feral ghouls in the new games though. I think we can all agree on that
     
  17. Gizmojunk

    Gizmojunk Half-way Through My Half-life

    Nov 26, 2007
    Different team, and the Fallout 2 team was already very different from Fallout 1's.

    ______________

    Even so...
    Typhon.gif

    Typhon speaks about ghouls to the Chosen one. Typon comes from Necropolis, and describes [all] ghouls, as both the first and last generation; (with none before and none after—the event).
     
    Last edited: Oct 20, 2020
  18. Atomic Postman

    Atomic Postman Vault Fossil

    Mar 16, 2013
    The primary purpose of that dialogue was to indicate that Ghouls can't reproduce. It also doesn't counteract the idea that Ghouls can come from locations other than Necropolis. For instance, the Ghouls of the Reservation would slot perfectly with Typhon's description as well. As would Raul. It does imply that Ghouls were a product of the Great War (rather than Wastelanders being exposed to large amounts of radiation and becoming them, which I don't like) however.
     
    Last edited: Oct 20, 2020
  19. Gizmojunk

    Gizmojunk Half-way Through My Half-life

    Nov 26, 2007
    Okay... so what does 'last generation' mean?... other than last generation.

    I don't think that Ghouls were meant to exist as anything but the special result of the mysterious event at Necropolis.

    I certainly think that the later teams assumed that well of course there must be ghouls in their next Fallout game, but I do believe that they either didn't understand why not to do it, or decided not to care about the original setting, and to include ghouls regardless.

    *This is the crux: Imagine if all anyone had to do to become like Spiderman, was to irradiate a spider, and be bitten by it.
     
    Last edited: Oct 21, 2020 at 5:26 AM
  20. Atomic Postman

    Atomic Postman Vault Fossil

    Mar 16, 2013
    The conversation, IIRC and do correct me if I'm wrong since it's been 2 and a half years since I played 2, was specifically in reference to a Ghoul and their son, wasn't it? The point was that they were last generation because having "generations" of Ghouls is impossible because they can't pass on their seed.

    I'd also continue the argument that the dialogue makes a fair case for Ghouls as unique products of the nuclear holocaust, but not Necropolis specifically.