How "retro" was Fallout intended to be?

Vault11 said:
If I recall the long and short of it, the reason the 50s style lasted until 2077 is because communist subversion of the US (hippies, beatniks, counterculture) was unsuccessful, unlike real life. What we see as the "50s style" as just a decade long fad of how things were and what the country's values were, was never interupted in the Fallout universe. 50s style was simply American style, a national identity and way of life that passed from generation to generation. [..]
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The communist subversion is just lore rationalization for their setting. By blending of old-fashioned "retro" styles and with futuristic technology gave them a richer setting they can explore. It makes for a lighter setting where we can laugh on what people used to think of the future and more imaginative one that is not constricted by hard science (same goes for social values). Besides the dated look is unique and appealing.

Matt the Czar said:
I think the problem was Bethesda was a little too serious about the 50s aesthetic. In 1 and 2 things the Vaults were more a vision of the future seen in the 50s, all clean stainless steel, art deco, and modern appliances. Outside the vaults things look more like an 80s future, where it isn't an 80s apopcalyse, there is lots of neon and laser guns (not rayguns). It seems to shows a world that moved on, unlike the Enclave and the Vault Dwellers (and Bethesda :D).
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I disagree. Fallout 1&2 were isometric and not very high def, as such most of the mundane details remained obscure, allowing us to fill out the gaps with our imagination as we see fit. Moving to FPP changed that. (Its like movie adaptation of your favorite book, they usually can't nail your perfect idea of what it told..)

More practically, the 80s and 50s styles are very different, I don't see how you can combine the two especially in FPP game, you'd have old timers cry murder when 99% of the game that you see (beside tutorial and maybe few runied vaults) is styled in the 80s fashion.

EDIT: with that said, what do you think about these scenes from the FO4 trailer:


Yamu said:
As to the wider question of the retro bits of Fallout, I'm going to blaspheme here and say that I've always personally felt that it was, structurally, the least important component of the game, and I think the developers were very cognizant of that. It was all for presentation, for setting the world apart and giving it a distinctive face, and though it made for a hell of a sizzle, it had nothing to do with the steak itself. It was a focusing device, aimed squarely at the player and strictly inconsequencial to the wasteland and its denizens-- "They were living in the World of Tomorrow, and now no one even knows what Instant Spaghetti is."

Scrub the retro-future and cold war themes from the first two games, and what do they lose? Some visual styling and a bit of narrative poignancy. The wasteland itself hardly changes at all.
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I agree that it is just the presentation, which is why I comfortable with direction FO lore (in terms of tech) universe took since FO3 (incorporating more 60s etc influences, it feels less dated)

However, I disagree with your final conclusion. This presentation, the constant contrast between the old and the new is iconic and IMO contributes a lot to the atmosphere of Fallout, scrub that and you get pretty much any other post-apoc game..
 
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Yeah I want Dwarves back, I get that it's hard to implement a new race into Gamebryo without having to basically redo every piece of equipment so they have the proper animations with consistent scale so it doesn't just look like Dwarves have magic shrinking powers.... but if they really want to be all "NEXT GEN!tm." they should just put the damn effort.

In my opinion Fallout3's over focus on the prewar world is rather misguided, specially since they made it so now they apparently had Vinyl players in the middle of 2077 and that music stopped getting produced and developed after the 50's. They should try their hand at creating new music for the setting if licensing existing songs is so expensive they can just make their own blues and stuff. Probably even make some POST war music.
 
I find the idea of cybernetic augmentation --can be seen in first image above-- very intriguing. Instead of spending time on something like dwarfs, i'd wish they could add actual limb damage\loss, and in the extreme allow costly cybernetic augmentation.

In my opinion Fallout3's over focus on the prewar world is rather misguided, specially since they made it so now they apparently had Vinyl players in the middle of 2077 and that music stopped getting produced and developed after the 50's. They should try their hand at creating new music for the setting if licensing existing songs is so expensive they can just make their own blues and stuff. Probably even make some POST war music.
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I see FO3 --their first installment on the west coast-- focus on prewar world, in the same sense that first fallout focused on exploring the world. From the little we seen in FO4 it looks very different, with far more established settlements (presumably like in FO2, where it was more about the rebirth)

As for Vinyl.. considering that their target audience spans from teenagers to old timers, do you really want them to make a "you" a custom CD... I think that focusing on recognizable\iconic songs is the right choice and everyone else can plug their mp4s...
 
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Everybody praised Bioshlock Infinite for their Barber Quartet covers of songs with the word "god" on the lyrics (because subtlety) I don't see why they couldn't attempt something like that, videogame music is something that has gained a lot of respect recently they could try their hand at making new music for Fallout.
 
I'll doubt there will be visible augmentation (or "craft your own power armor" as some people jumped into conclusion) and stuff just because you can see some NPCs with that in the trailer. In the Fo3 trailers you can see the vault dweller with non-armored and armored vault suit, yet it didn't meaned we would be able to customize armor.
 
Well Sawyer did say they planned an Armor modding feature for New Vegas but couldn't get too far with it due to time. So the intention has been there, they might introduce that this time around, if they keep any of the mechcanics New Vegas brought.
 
Lexx said:
Damn, it's true. I want dwarves (dwarfs?) as well.
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Nothing says 80s scifi/fantasy like dwarves! Willow, Time Bandits, and of course, Beyond Thunderdome. Maybe it's politically incorrect to include them now, but even just having a few little NPCs in the background adds something to the setting that is lacking without them.

I doubt we'll see the return of dwarves, but I do hope they've at least updated the graphics in FO4 to show different body types. I liked how the originals had a range of sprites, from the corpulent, immobile Gizmo to dwarf merchants, etc, but somehow in Gamebryo land everyone has a perfectly proportioned athletic frame. Somehow in a resource scarce post nuclear environment, I think we'd see a lot more scrawny, starving people. At least Skyrim has some variety here.

fred2 said:
I find the idea of cybernetic augmentation --can be seen in first image above-- very intriguing. Instead of spending time on something like dwarfs, i'd wish they could add actual limb damage\loss, and in the extreme allow costly cybernetic augmentation.
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I'm not sure how I'd feel about full blown visible augments. I'm all for keeping the tradition of implants, but they should be subtle, non-visible stat boosts like they've always been, not full on replacement of limbs with forklifts and plasma cannons.

(exceptions made for exceptional characters, like Lieutenant, of course)
 
Where is this cybernetic augmentation in the image? I don't see any of that. But if they were to include physical augments ala Lieutenant they should come with some penalties and they shouldn't look sleek like Deus Ex Augs, but bulkier, with cables and shit coming out of the side and needing energy cells and the like to work.
 
Walpknut said:
Where is this cybernetic augmentation in the image? I don't see any of that. But if they were to include physical augments ala Lieutenant they should come with some penalties and they shouldn't look sleek like Deus Ex Augs, but bulkier, with cables and shit coming out of the side and needing energy cells and the like to work.
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Looking at a larger picture helps to see it.
 
I am looking at the big size picture, I even zoomed in and I can't see anything of the sort. I am kind of blind anyway so that's why I am asking.
 
Walpknut said:
I am looking at the big size picture, I even zoomed in and I can't see anything of the sort. I am kind of blind anyway so that's why I am asking.
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The trenchcoat dude has a metallic right hand.
 
fred2 said:
More practically, the 80s and 50s styles are very different, I don't see how you can combine the two especially in FPP game, you'd have old timers cry murder when 99% of the game that you see (beside tutorial and maybe few runied vaults) is styled in the 80s fashion.

EDIT: with that said, what do you think about these scenes from the FO4 trailer:
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#1 reminds me of New Reno, which struck me the most as 80s. 2 reminds me of, oddly enough, Morrowind; mostly because of the design of the central building in the bazaar and the music in the trailer. I guess Daggerfall and Morrowind are Bethesdas' FO1 and 2, now that I think about it.
 
Kilgore Trout said:
fred2 said:
I find the idea of cybernetic augmentation --can be seen in first image above-- very intriguing. Instead of spending time on something like dwarfs, i'd wish they could add actual limb damage\loss, and in the extreme allow costly cybernetic augmentation.
Click to expand...

I'm not sure how I'd feel about full blown visible augments. I'm all for keeping the tradition of implants, but they should be subtle, non-visible stat boosts like they've always been, not full on replacement of limbs with forklifts and plasma cannons.

(exceptions made for exceptional characters, like Lieutenant, of course)
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No, no plasma cannons attachments ;) I was thinking that improved character models might offer interesting gameplay options:

1. iirc right now any damage to the limbs is purely "stat" based (i.e. Crippling a leg will result in impaired mobility - mostly no running ) It might be nice if targeting and hitting an enemy leg, would have a set of animations to illustrate its impairment e.g. crawl..

2. More customization - The term "augmentation" was a poorly chosen. It might be nice if you could sustain so much damage to a limb, that it can't be saved and has to be replaced. But more importantly, if the devs can customize limbs, we would be encounter a more verity of characters e.g. characters with no hands, or wooden prosthetic etc (not everyone has access to vault tech med)

Anyway, I doubt that it will happen..

Walpknut said:
You sure it isn't just the pipboy glove?
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http://imgur.com/UhuGl59
 
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