How smart are you?

"People" being like, 10% of the population MAYBE? Terrible, is what that is.

Nearly all of the middle and upper class can pay for college. The lower classes can sometimes afford it given loans, scholarships, attending a low-cost college, or some combination of the three.

I agree that it costs way too much and that everyone should have a shot at going to college, but 10% is not an accurate figure by any measure.

Kharn wrote:

Yes, let's all be thankful that the draft has been replaced by fooling young naive kids into signing up by offering them money.

Yay America Rolling Eyes .

Yeah, what a racket that is. Offering loads of money to people that are going to put their life in danger. Would you rather they pay them dogshit and refuse to help out with education?

And, at any rate, I wasn't saying that it was the Greatest Thing Ever either. I was just saying that there is the possibility and that it does help out quite a bit with tuition.

KQX wrote:
Not True at all. As i said before, community colleges have a much simpler curriculum. How else can all these people finish all those degrees while balancing out part time jobs? And you cannot always transfer to better universities later. Either they won't accept you at all, or they will not accept many of your credits. You can't compare the classes you take at a community college to the classes at normal universities. The classes might share the same title, but that's about it. I'll give you an example. My cousin and I both took macroeconomics at the same time (same introductory course), but she goes to a community college while i took the class at Northwestern. She had the class from January through May, while i had it from January through March (semester system versus quarter system). Even though i had the class for a shorter time, i had much more material covered at my school than she did. While they focused mostly on general theories our class consisted of a discussion section, mathematical problems, and required 2 textbooks (one for the general theories and one which focused on specific economists). The difference was also obvious when we compared exams. While her's were all multiple choice, mine required many mathematical problems, essay questions, and graph drawing.

My mistake, sorry. I just thought that they were at least similar because my father worked on his mba at both community college and a regular university and they accepted nearly all of his credits. I should have known that business classes would be different than math ones, but I rushed to conclusions.

KQX wrote:
It's not all that great for everyone. I was accepted to university of Illinois Urbana-Champaign, but since i was not a resident of the U.S. at the time, i had to apply as an international student. And guess what: almost $30 000 tuition with room and board. So i basically told all the State schools I've been accepted to to go fuck themselves. If i'm going to be overcharged i might as well go to a better private school. Also, while Champaign does qualify as one of the top state universities, it is still a state school and can't really compare to the Ivy league private ones (although there are certainly worse private schools).

State schools do price-gouge out of state people, it's true. But that's why they're state schools- they're intended for that state's residents. And, Champlaign is definitely one of the top state schools, and there are a few like it (UVA, for instance) that are much more expensive than others. Overall, I'd say, state schools are a lot cheaper than 30k a year. I'd say a third of that for a resident of that state.

Point taken, though. They do fuck international and out-of-state students over.
 
Kharn said:
Even our fraternities, which Sander has been referring to as corpora, get tax-exemptions, I think, though most or all of their funding is private.
Well, there are non-corpora fraternities. Corpora have, at least here, a....really poor reputation, which is actually justified. Rich, arrogant kids with stupid rules and hazing rituals. This is an exaggerated reputatoin, but it is correct, albeit to a lesser degree.
But there are also student-organisations that are vastly different, in Eindhoven there's Demos, without the hazing, the whole slew of traditions and rules and without the hazing. I don't know what the exact connotations of 'fraternity' in English is, though.

Also, they get tax-exemptions because they're organizations, and hence not allowed to make a profit. This is true for a lot of (in fact, all I know of) student-organisations, though, not just coropora.

Kharn said:
That's why I said practical. Delft doesn't excell in non-practical research, but does so in practical. Practical post-Master?
Well, don't know about that, really. I've heard about a lot of practical research here as wel, mainly in the area of electronics. Although I don't know what Delft's reputation is, to be honest.
 
Interesting article I just found in the Wall Street Journal. For context, this article was written by a professor or economics at Ohio university. He also wrote a book about this subject.

Why Does College Cost So Much?

As college students begin a new academic year, many parents are reeling from tuition fees. This fall's probale average 8% increase at public universities, added onto double-digit hikes in the two previous years, means tuition at a typical state university is up 36% over 2002- at a time when consumer prices in general rose less than 9%. In inflation-adjusted terms, tuition today is roughly triple what it was when parents of today's college students attended school in the 70's. tuition charges are rising faster than family incomes, an unsustainable trend in the long run. This holds true even when scholarships and financial aid are considered. One consequence of rising costs is that college enrollments are no longer increasing as much as before. Price-sensitive groups like low-income students and minorities are missing out. A smaller percentage of Hispanics between the ages of 18 and 24 attend college today than in 1976. The US is beginning to fall below some other industrial nations in population-adjusted college attendance.

There are six factors in the cost explosion:

Rising demand: The "natural" consequences of rising demand- higher prices and a larger quantity consumed- are exacerbated by soaring third-party payments. Since 1994, financial-aid payments (mostly federal loans and grants) have risen by an extraordinary 11% per year. When someone else is paying the bills, we become less sensitive to price.

Lack of market discipline: Most universities are nonprofit. there is no bottom line. Did Yale have a good year in 2004? Who knows? It's stock is not traded. Administrators and faculty are not rewarded for increasing profits by reducing costs or improving product quality. When prices rise in the for-profit sector, entrepreneurs rush to supply the good, leading to higher supply and lower prices. how many universities advertise that they are cheaper than their peers, or offer a better value?

De-emphasizing undergraduate instruction: Data from the National Center for Education Statistics show that most colleges (but not community or liberal-arts colleges) have reduced the share of resources devoted to undergraduate teaching, spending more on other things- research, administration, student services (luxurious recreational and student centers), athletics, etc. Only about 21 cents of each new inflation-adjusted dollar per student since 1976 actually went for 'instruction'. Government eubsidies and private gifts given to support affordable undergraduate instruction are often spent elsewhere.

Price discrimination: Universities have discovered what airlines realized a generation ago- and they increasingly charge the maximum the customer will bear. They have raised sticker prices, giving discounts (scholarships) to those who are sensitive to price. Increasingly, these discounts go not mainly to low-income students but to talented students prized by universities seeking to improve ratings on the athletic field or in the US News & World Report rankings.

Stagnant (falling?) Productivity: While measuring productivity in post-secondary education is difficult, the ratio of staff to students has risen over time. There are now six non-teaching professional for every 100 students, up from three a generation ago. Unless teaching and research have soared in quantity and quality, which seems unlikely, productivity has fallen.

"Rent-seeking" behavior: better lives for the staff: Faculties have shared in the increased income of universities. Salaries of full professors at research universities are up well over 50% in real terms since 1980. Mid-six-digit salaries are becoming commonplace for superstar faculty, coaces and university presidents. Teaching loads have fallen (a typical full professor at a major public university is in class no more than five hours per week).

What is the solution? New forms of competition (e.g. for-profit institutions, online schooling, more use of community colleges, new approaches to certifying skills) are emerging. State legislators have sharply reduced their share of funding for public universities, forcing some schools to slash costs, reduce bureauacracies, increase teaching loads, get rid of costly underutilized graduate programs and more. Some schools are talking of using buildings more than eight or nine months a year, or are cutting down on the use of expensive tenured faculty. Colorado is shifting funds away from institutions and into student hands in the forum of vouchers, reasoning that the studend-customer, not the producer, should be sovreign as in nearly every other transaction.

The cost of higher education can not rise faster than incomes indefinitely. Change is coming: it is just a question of when, and in what form.

Well, I agree with him that the cost of college is becoming prohibitively expensive, and it's also startling that so few minorities are being schooled (the reason why I highlighted that bit about Hispanics) but I don't nessecarily agree with some of his solutions to the problem. Online schooling should never surpass classroom learning, and I'm a bit uneasy about the prospect of schools being turned into for-profit institutions, though it certainly would be interesting to see what the actual effects of this would be.
 
It's all part of the master plan to turn Americans into a nation of idiots.

So far it seems to be working. :P
 
Pajari said:
Yeah, what a racket that is. Offering loads of money to people that are going to put their life in danger. Would you rather they pay them dogshit and refuse to help out with education?

That has nothing to do with it.

Recent signals from America are pointing towards trouble. The Army is getting "under-staffed" and without the draft its only option is to "trick" people into the army. Rather than showing people what'll be waiting for them, the US Army has been tricking (young and naive) people into joining the army with such ancient lures as money or "seeing places" (like Hawaii -> honest)

It'll breed a generation of maniacal veterans yet

Sander said:
Well, there are non-corpora fraternities. Corpora have, at least here, a....really poor reputation, which is actually justified. Rich, arrogant kids with stupid rules and hazing rituals. This is an exaggerated reputatoin, but it is correct, albeit to a lesser degree.
But there are also student-organisations that are vastly different, in Eindhoven there's Demos, without the hazing, the whole slew of traditions and rules and without the hazing. I don't know what the exact connotations of 'fraternity' in English is, though.

Also, they get tax-exemptions because they're organizations, and hence not allowed to make a profit. This is true for a lot of (in fact, all I know of) student-organisations, though, not just coropora.

A fraternity is a studentenvereniging, but male-only. It's the closest term they have to fit our studentenvereniging, though

Corpora, last time I checked, is a large collection of writings on a specific subject. I have no idea what you're talking about when you say corpora.

Of the five largest studentenverenigingen in Leiden, though, two have hazings, two do not and one is kind of split fifty fifty, depending on which part of it you join.

But since you conclude their reputation is correct, I will assume you've based this conclusion on expansive personal research.
 
Kharn said:
A fraternity is a studentenvereniging, but male-only. It's the closest term they have to fit our studentenvereniging, though

Corpora, last time I checked, is a large collection of writings on a specific subject. I have no idea what you're talking about when you say corpora.

Of the five largest studentenverenigingen in Leiden, though, two have hazings, two do not and one is kind of split fifty fifty, depending on which part of it you join.

But since you conclude their reputation is correct, I will assume you've based this conclusion on expansive personal research.
Corpora are all organisations with the name 'corps'. Leiden is the originator of these things (with Minerva). They're most infamous for traditions, a lot of their members are members because daddy used to be a member, and the members are generally richer and more arrogant people. Plus they have silly rules like 'you can't sit (there and there or on such and such furniture) until you've been a member for three years'.
Oh, and they're (in)famous from 'Soldaat van Oranje' as well.
And yes, I've concluded this from personal research. Albeit in Eindhoven, where the organisations aren't that active, but there the trend is very obvious, even though there are fewer people a member than in most cities, and the whole 'daddy was a member' thing is much less of an issue, what with it only being 50 years old.
Basically, a certain 'type' of person tends to join those organisations.
 
Oooh, pffft, het corps, that's just a minor undercurrent in the belly of student life. Minerva isn't even the biggest of the studentenverenigingen anymore, but yes, they have silly rules, traditions and hazings. Doesn't bother me if it makes them happy.
 
Intelligence can not be measured. It just can't. I see you people starting to talk about yourself, so i will also. I am in nothing an average man, i like computers but my favorite subject is biology , no not because its very easy to learn at least for me. I bodybuild , i am aggressive but i try to hide it. I am now in second grade language high school. I like to research I am kind of scientist. One of my mottos is NOTHING IS IMPOSSIBLE.
 
Back
Top