I don't get San Francisco

[naossano]

Of course you would.

Since the Hubologists were meant as a long dig at Scientology (and the fact that none of them actually understood the tech they used - based on how none of them actually fixed that shuttle even in their 'good' ending), I was satisfied that they all died out. Then... ugh... Nuka World undid that.

WoW. I wasn't aware that Beth brought back the hubologist. I am even more surprised that they are aware that the faction exist. They must have watched some Let's Play...

You're lumping the Master, who tried to make everyone the same by force to end fighting once and for all with a group of brainwashed cultist morons?

And you CAN make the Master succeed, after all they may have solved the sterility problem after the Vault Dweller joins.

Well, could the FEV sterility issue be solved or not is a question that will remain unsolved, as every later attempts were cut short by a third party. But the Lieutenant and other high-ranked members of the unity were already aware of the problem and were quite hopeful. The master reaction was mostly emotionnal, as it broke the ideal picture he drawed to sustain his sanity.

 

[CT Phipps]

I'm pretty sure Matt mentioned in his dialogue that BOS is aware of this "prophecy" spreading amongst the tribes. Nobody can escape the gossip in wasteland! As for the replay scene, I do believe Matt is trolling olde Frank like a boss. (doesn't make any sense otherwise)

Or we can remember the Brotherhood is 130 years old now and a bunch of superstitious weird tribals themselves.

Arryo is a bunch of weirdo tribals, why not the BOS?

 

[Prone Squanderer]

Or we can remember the Brotherhood is 130 years old now and a bunch of superstitious weird tribals themselves.

Arryo is a bunch of weirdo tribals, why not the BOS?

Arroyo doesn't have hi-tech weapons, medical equipment, power armour and R&D/science teams. It doesn't make sense for them to start behaving like Arroyo tribals.

 

[CT Phipps]

Arroyo doesn't have hi-tech weapons, medical equipment, power armour and R&D/science teams. It doesn't make sense for them to start behaving like Arroyo tribals.

How does technology mean you can't be superstitious? The Arryo folk also HAD all of that but they lost it.

 

[Prone Squanderer]

How does technology mean you can't be superstitious? The Arryo folk also HAD all of that but they lost it.

The BOS as "weird tribals". The odd member being superstitious is fine, but the organization as a whole? I don't think it makes sense given their extensive knowledge and technological prowess.

 

[CT Phipps]

The BOS as "weird tribals". The odd member being superstitious is fine, but the organization as a whole? I don't think it makes sense given their extensive knowledge and technological prowess.

I guess I'm coming at it from the perspective the BoS were never as intelligent or wise as they believed themselves to be. Their obsession with the code for example went from being guidelines given to them by their leader to something they've elevated to a secular religion. The idea they believe in concepts like fate and prophecy seem like things they could easily add to themselves with them becoming more and more like Warhammer 40K Tech Priests and a Chapter of Space Marines than people who just happened to be armored soldiers.

Most of this is from Fallout 3 and New Vegas, though, as Fallout 1's BoS was still salvageable.

 

[Tiny Tim]

I'm also totally surpised to hear bethesda used the hubologists in a fallout 4 dlc . Since i don't see them trying to go for continuity or appealing to old fans of the series, i guess they're running out of ideas faster than normal. It's also funny that they chose the wackiest faction in the series, but i guess there weren't that many left to chose from.


About the brotherhood, i've come to agree that they have fallen from grace like you guys are saying. That they've accepted they were wrong when they found out the enclave was far more advanced than them and started believing in prophecies about the vault dweller's grandchild.
But i still don't like the way fallout 2 handles them. Having (empty) bunkers in places like the den or the ncr and guys ( with metal armors) watching things is lame, and would mean that they are not a secret organization any more. So we have to wonder what role they are playing in these towns, and none is given. Also, plot wise, the player is waiting to see them in full power from as early as the den , to see what they will do and to be given guidance from them, and then it's a bit underwhelming when they do nothing and the player sees nothing more from them.

 

[YeeCop]

I can't really remember the Fallout 2 Hubologists well, but wasn't Hubology being a pre-war religion/cult a Nuka World addition?

EDIT: From what I can find on the wiki it was founded Pre-War, but apparently as a hoax to get money. Can't find the actual text files that explain that though.

Yeah, it was founded pre-war. Hence why it makes sense that there's a branch in the Nuka World DLC.
Most Pre-war religions and faiths manage to stick around in post-apocalyptic America. You can find a Christian missionary in the Point Lookout DLC for Fallout 3, I remember.

 

[naossano]

They never been a secret organization. It was an organization that had secret, but everyone knew who they were and where they were. They would even give you access to some part of their HQ if they weren't on lockdown. (and even during lockdown, you could still enter for trading food agains"t weapons). They started to hide their outposts when they went at war with the NCR, not before.

 

[Prone Squanderer]

Yeah, it was founded pre-war. Hence why it makes sense that there's a branch in the Nuka World DLC.
Most Pre-war religions and faiths manage to stick around in post-apocalyptic America. You can find a Christian missionary in the Point Lookout DLC for Fallout 3, I remember.

Several religions were part of Vault 15 so they'd be more widely-known and practiced in the Core Region (given NCR's spread) and Christianity was America's main religion. However I never got the impression Hubology was as big nor went beyond California. But to be fair I don't ever recall joining them in game and it's been a few years since I've played Fallout 2 so it could be it did go beyond and I just missed it in game.

But to me, the Hubologists' inclusion in Nuka World feels like an Enclave effect, i.e. bringing back a group from a previous game just to say "Yep this is Fallout!"

 

[DarkCorp]

@Prone Squanderer

You mean more like the F3 Harold effect.

'Hey, we will have Harold take a cross country trek for no reason just so we can say, ITS HAROLD'.

For me, everything that is out of place in F2 I chalk up to its unwelcome WACKY.

 

[Tiny Tim]

poor harold

 

[DarkCorp]

I mean, Harold brings all sorts of benefits. If he has any technical skills, he could find a lucrative job working for the NCR government. If he is more education oriented, he could be a much needed teacher on pre-war related subjects.

Bethesda was like, 'fuck that shit'. Look, Harold is here in D.C., EMMURSZUN.

IMO, the BoS, should have made themselves an integral, but secret, part of the highest levels of NCRs government. They could easily do this by promising small amounts of tech and proficient combat training for the ever-expanding NCR military.

 

[CT Phipps]

I mean, Harold brings all sorts of benefits. If he has any technical skills, he could find a lucrative job working for the NCR government. If he is more education oriented, he could be a much needed teacher on pre-war related subjects.

I imagine he'd probably just stick to working at the nuclear plant. However, the thing about Harold which so very few characters acknowledge is HAROLD'S LIFE SUCKS. Him becoming a tree which is imobile and tortures him is pretty much par for the course with him.

Bethesda was like, 'fuck that shit'. Look, Harold is here in D.C., EMMURSZUN.

He's immune to radiation and basically a really ugly Super Mutant. Is there any reason he couldn't make the trek across the countryside?

IMO, the BoS, should have made themselves an integral, but secret, part of the highest levels of NCRs government. They could easily do this by promising small amounts of tech and proficient combat training for the ever-expanding NCR military.

In what possible universe does anything about the Brotherhood of Steel give you the impression they're subtle or manipulative? Also, the NCR is an expansionist ruthless society that will not respect BoS sovereignty. The BOS tried to stop them and failed.

A tragedy.

 

[DarkCorp]

1. Harold doesn't have to STAY at the plant. I mean, the whole area he is in has been annexed by NCR in canon. Judging by the idiots they are hiring to run plants in NV, NCR is in dire need of competent technical people.

So Harold can either take a long ass trek across the wasteland, to an uncertain future, for what seems like shits and giggles. A trek that includes Deathclaws, super mutie remnants and radioactive tornadoes, among other things.

Or he can stay in the NCR, pretty much the safest route considering its the closest thing to a rebuilt United States. By the time of NV, discrimination is going down and, TBH, Harold HAS the skills NCR needs so I am sure accommodations can be made for him.

2. Just because he CAN, doesn't mean he would OR should. This is pretty much where Bethesda fucked up.

3. Obviously the BoS adapted and BECAME PART of the NCR. This more than shows their leadership is embracing the concept of pragmatism. The elders merely need to have a BIG voice in NCR politics. That does not mean they need to all of sudden be completely open or allow outsiders into their ranks. Communication can be through intermediaries or via radio so the elders need not even step outside a bunker.

 

[lolpop109]

That's my idea of POST-Apocalyptic. The apocalypse is way behind and what we see is the new world.

If it is about people still struggling with the aftermath of the singular event, i would consider the setting as apocalyptic as they are still coping with the apocalypse itself.

Classic Fallout were mostly about the world after. The apocalypse is only used to destroy the old world and make the new world possible. But those games were about that new world and its new societies.

Fallout 3, on the other hand, seems more apocalyptic to me. There is so much fetish about the pre-war world and the great war, and so few effort put into rebuilding or starting anew that it feel like everyone is still coping with the event. It also feels like it happened five minutes ago, not 200 years.

Surely a game would be exploring both though ? One can be with out the other ? What I mean is communitys and individuals will strive and people will still struggle. Not everyone can move forward and simply let go. Hence they still play the same music etc even though times been hundreds of years and things have chanced. People will always wonder what the old world was like because everyday is a reminder of it. Even when society get rebuilt and there in there new settlment there is always going to be things that remind you of what happen. It kinda of hard to imagine. But it would be like standing in new york and not knowing how anything worked or what live was like it would be hard to imagine.

I think times are still though for most people ever shown in the fallout universe even inside NCR boarders etc the econmy isn't that great hence the reasson NCR has plently of soilders because the pay is good and they can provide for the family. Live is much thougher than anything we could imagine now with expectant age much lower. Most will move on agreed but there always going to be people wanting things to be as they where or similar

Sorry to reply to and old post but it got me thinking

 

[DarthVenis]

I don't know, i personally like San Francisco, with all its quests, loads of xp and stuff, free power armor with 2 free upgrades (i just kill this guy and wipe out the Hubologist after upgrading PAs, and get my money back from his corpse (oh, and also steal all the Gausses and G11s from tanker punks). I know I'm kinda munchkin, so San Fran is just for me. In terms of athmosphere, immersion and logic - yes, SF could have been done more thorough, but it actually doesn't bother me much, and yes, its kinda final frontier before you embark on a final quest, so it SHOULD be technologically advanced...although you can simply get all that tech at the Oil Rig...nevertheless, I like SF. And sooomuch fun with kung fu rivals!