Niner1209
First time out of the vault
Honestly it's all of the slaving, I HATE that. I don't particularly side with NCR (on my last playthrough went for an independent vegas) but Ceasars Legion are just ugh...
I wish their armor would be more like theone in Caesar's new Regime mod or at least made out of animal pelts instead of football equipment. But well, that's what mods are for.
Sorry, I couldn't find the quote button and the layout of the site was a little confusing.Not to be a Grammar-Nazi, but you should really quote things better, I cannot understand a single thing you just wrote.
I don’t think their Rome, the Legion is an adaptation of multiple systems and ideologies to the wasteland. I do believe they may be the most viable power in the Western part of the US.- It'sstill not Rome. I'd support it if it had a functioning society behind it. Don'tgive me that "thesis and antithesis" crap: Own up and build it or getout of Dodge.
Probablythe worst aspect of the Legion I won’t deny it. But consider that the system of slavery in the Legion isn’t slavery like we would think of it, the children of slaves are taken away from their parents to be raised by Legion priestess’s. Lets not forget that in Vegas theirs pretty grisly trade involving children, not war captives, the only group that has no form of forced labor would be the Brotherhood and that just because they loot and steal what they want. Most of the Legion slaves are really just those who have stood against them or committed crimes against them. Notice there are no slave owners, these are just people have no political rights, second class citizens.Theslavery theme is excessive and trite. They had the opportunity to take Romanvirtues at face value and make slavery a gray-area with well-treated and even'willing' slaves. Instead they farm women and children from foreign lands andpush slaves around, ordering them to carry outlandishly huge rucksacks whilebarefoot in the Nevada sand.”
Their tactics aren't there. Sure you havethe "divide and conquer" meta stuff but in the end the whole game isabout those damned Frumentarii. You don't see battle ranks, no pilum-tossingfirst lines, nothing. "Well disciplined" equates to attacking inrandom gaggles? They could have at least described it otherwise in lore if thegame was that limited, but they didn't even do that.
The NCR makes fairly poor use of the amazing array of old world resources makingpriceless power armor useless and using vertibirds and the private transports for officers rather than landing spec ops behind enemy lines. Think about it they could have just used a Vertibird to bomb Caesars camp.- Shunning technology. To cherrypick Caesar'son words: that is the 'antithesis' of what Rome was like. They didn't developmuch, sure, but they gladly stole it from everybody else and worked it intotheir civilization. We could have seen tractor-engined chariots, but instead wehave a childish fear of stimpacks.
Legion troops are tougher to take down, seriously they have better health which is meant to show they have higher training and thus harder to take down, with exception of the battle of the Hoover Dam I imagine the NCR takes higher casualties. Also remember Legion women devote themselves to having kids meaning that they have a higher both rate so in the long run the Legion will simply out reproduce the NCR.- And AGAIN to tie into the military side:Expandability. I'm sorry, but it's post-apocalyptia. You don't have themanpower to carelessly toss soldiers away and decimate them at leisure,especially not when you're up against an industrializing state. Once again Romedidn't do that either: their stratified battle ranks were a matter of expedience, not a desire to see their men butchered. When those disappeared inImperial times, legions were precious: Ever heard the phrase, 'Give me back myLegions'?
Your right the Legion isn't Rome but neither is the NCR America. However the Legion has a far better chance of becoming like Rome than the NCR has of becoming like America.Don't care. Everything Rome did would havemade perfect sense here. Everything Caesar's Legion did, did not make sense. Itwasn't consistent with the world it inhabited, so it's like a fat, scarletulcer hanging off the Hoover Dam. Everybody knows it, which is why most tend todefault to the NCR. Some "counterbalance" there.
I'd support Caesar's Legion if:
- They looked like everyone had been describing (Wasteland themed Roman Soldiers) instead of Mad Max Raiders wearing football armor
- Put more thought behind their values (For instance: Old World Tech is bad because it's remnants of an evil destructive world, we should innovate and make our own new world. As opposed to: Tech and medicine is bad....just because)
- Their soldiers were actually threatening (Even if individually they were crap but dangerous in numbers)
- We weren't bombarded with Anti-Legion dialogue for the first half of the game
Obsidian really dropped the ball on the Legion.
I mean, they weren't so bad. They served their purpose as a horde of tribalistic raiders under a strong leader well.
The Legion isn't anti tech, they just give more value to things forged by human hands as opposed to built in mass, the plasma grenades are more an issue with level lists spawning those on their inventories despite them being against using energy weapons.
In the end Caesar does own an autodoc, so he is also a huge hypocrite.
No not really. Not only is that "Tough on Criminals" stuff unfair, but in real life it's not even effective. If anything it makes the criminals more brutal and less reasonable as proved by reality.PROS:
- Their treatment of criminals.
- Their treatment of raiders.
- No corruption or bureaucracy. No politicians.
- Rude, crude and functional. Sometimes, that's exactly what society needs to be.
Well, that's it for my first post. I could write 10 pages about both the Legion and the NCR, but for now I'll leave it at this. I'll be happy to elaborate all of my claims further, if need be.