welsh said:
I think a lot of the problem with illegal immigrants is that much of it goes unreported and unrecognized simply because these folks are mostly living off the grid. It is possible to live a pretty good life in the US without being legally recognized.
The problem with gangs in the city isn't just because they are illegal. I also did work in New York with youth crime and a lot of the kids that were getting into trouble weren't illegal, but were just the kids of immigrants who were having trouble fitting in, mostly Asian kids.
Exactly. But in the SW, you not only have anchor baby gangs of Mexican descent, you also have more than a few of Chinese and Cambodian. The reason why this happens, as I have stated before, is because the illegal trash doesn't care to take care of the child aside from making sure they get their next welfare check for said child. That is not only causing problems for the US and citizenry, but it isn't a way for any child to grow up.
But even then, you still got every other kind of ethnicity creating it's own gang. Urban areas, especially urban poor areas, are breeding grounds for organized criminals. Gangs have an easy time finding opportunities for commerce (racketeering, extortion, gambling, drugs, prostitution), poor areas don't get the same kind of police protection and because it's hostile, the cops don't want to go there and when they do they come hard- creating community distrust. It's not just illegals, and trimming them off the top isn't going to resolve that problem although it might improve things a bit.
Where better to hide than in gang-infested areas? Crime is also dominant factor with illegals, as it is estimated that 35-45% of illegals come here for welfare and crime. It then becomes easier to coyote over more illegals once there is a criminal base, and that is how several Mexican gangs are now operating in Arizona and Cali.
San Diego is going to have problems.
They already do. Badly.
It is a major transit area for illegal immigration just because of its location on the border. Hell, go over to Tijuana and you got illegals coming from all over central america, trying to get across the border and it's not that hard to do. There's a book, Across the Wire, that talks about this in Tijuana and it's a fucking mess on that side, so no surprise its a mess on the US side.
Yup, turned into an art form, and there's books on how to defraud the US welfare system, which states or businesses commit felonies by accepting the Matrica Consular (or whatever the hell it is called) as legitimate US ID, and how to tie up the legal system in loopholes as you stay in the US while being taken care of at taxpayer expense in prisons. Speaking of prisons, illegals also cause more internal problems with them due to being mostly gang-related. And yet they are put alongside our own convicts, regardless of what they did and what risk of life the gangers represent. Fuck that, make an illegal alien prison and treat it like a Gulag, then see how they like to abuse the system.
Yet San Diego is still one of the nicest places in the US to live. Demographically it's as if you replaced the African-American community with a Latino community.
No, several latino communities, most of which are at each other's throat. The gangs represented by African-Americans are downright polite compared to how the latino gangs act.
But a lot of the workers that are illegal do figure on the books since the companies have to account for their labor to the IRS should they get auditted. Hell, when I was working as a deli clerk, I was off the books, but still figured in their accounts (though perhaps not at the rate I was being paid or for the hours I was working). Same goes for a lot of illegal immigrants. Those folks are never going to collect their taxes.
Unless they get a forged SSN, claim taxes, and get much more back as they breed like rabbits to take advantage of the tax refund as well as a larger welfare check for having that many spawnlings. Then they become a tax fund sinkhole.
Then you got property taxes, sales taxes and other types of taxes that they are supposed to pay and won't see. These folks are not going to see their social security payments. Compare the costs in taxes to the costs in services they consume and I am willing to bet that illegals are still consuming less than they pay in.
They get government-backed home loans (which means the taxpayers pick up the tab for it), in-state tuition from colleges over real citizens, and much more. They don't have to pay taxes for most aspects of civilian life, but they still drain quite a bit. From anchor baby care, to welfare, to our prison system, illegals are costing a fuckload more than they pay in.
While in law school I worked in a restaurant with an immigrant crew. These guys all shared the same house (must have been 15 of them living there) and all of them were thinking about going home after they made their money. I think I was the only one back there who was legal and spoke no Spanish. But the boss would have hired more college or high school students, but either the kids didn't want to work or they were too undependable. The Latin guys worked hard and took it very seriously. I had a lot of respect for their work ethic.
I know many who do have a respectable work ethic. That is why they get work visas. Those who do not do it right are only causing problems, no matter how dilligently they work.
And while I have little doubt that some illegals try to get legal by having kids, I think most of your illegal immigrants are still guys trying to do better on this side of the border than that side.
Given that our Federal prisons are 35% filled with illegals, mostly gang members, and most large cities have a problem holding the number of illegal or anchor-born gangers in prison, I really doubt that.
Given that 300,000 anchor babies per year are put onto the taxpayer bill for health care and then onto WIC and welfare care, I really doubt that.
Given that 35-45% of the 3 MIL/year illegals are crossing to suck up welfare or to commit crimes, I really doubt that.
There is a bar that does Salsa night in C'ville- it's all latino guys and fat divorced white women. No latinas at all. While these guys may congregate in cities and may take opportunities in crime, your latino immigrant workers are now all over the US.
Yes, given the way the produce farmers were trying to validate using illegal aliens to keep produce prices down, when in fact it does nothing but lower overhead for the farmers and cause a social program sinkhole that taxpayers have to pick up the bills for.
My wife's friend was illegal over from Spain. She and her husband were in the restaurant business in Florida and Virginia and then took advantage of one of the amnesty programs to get legal. One of the conditions was that they had to pay nearly 50K in back taxes to become legal.
Then Bush Jr. wants to make it free.
Which is one of the reasons amnesty programs are not such a bad idea. A lot of the illegals who are in the US would love to become legal in the US, but they need to pay their taxes back. Given a chance, they would do it.
HAH! The problem with this is when they become legal, they can't scalp civilian wages anymore, and have to go workless and homeless along with the legal civilians who also had the audacity to expect to be paid minimum wage. You know, like the illegals who turned to crime when they couldn't even take jobs from other wetbacks.
Don't get me wrong Rosh, illegal immigration is a big problem in the US and I have a lot more respect to the guys who come over legally. But it is a lot more difficult to come over legally than it was, and I believe immigration has become a lot more selective about who it lets over.
So? I don't see any point in rewarding someone for essentially invading another country, North America Fucked Trade Agreement or not. See, I might be a little sympathetic, but when the big three move most of their production down into Mexico to take advantage of the cheaper labor, what makes them think there is any work to be had here other than scalping minimum wage jobs? Scalping they can't do when they become legal.
I am not sure if blaming the illegals for the problem is necessarily the answer. Sure you will get some bad folks, but most of them just want to work and improve their quality of life, just like the rest of us.
Sorry...am I the only one who understands the significance of illegally crossing a sovereign country's border?
The regulation of this is fucked up and incompetent. It could be better and in the process, these folks could be documented and incorporated into the system so they are both paying their share and reaping the benefits.
This assumes they want to pay their fair share, versus suck welfare and commit crimes, including violating a border and numerous Federal laws during their stay.
Tighten the border, sure. But also be a bit more realistic and fair with who gets into the country. You can't be selecting just the best and brightest, not when the country's immigrants have historically been poor and desperate.
Sure, we could use all of the unskilled and uneducated labor we can get, from the generations of an entire ethnic subculture that makes a business of being illegal to abuse the US system. You seem to think that they would want to become legal - if they wanted to do so, then they would have done it legally. Evidence of the appalling number of foreign criminals and welfare recipiants in this country says otherwise, and these people aren't looking to get real jobs in the most part. They do what can be done with unskilled labor, and get the job by agreeing to a wage far under any state minimum.
What worries me is that a lot of the animosity against illegals is based on fears that America is becoming too hispanic, that it's loosing it's culture. But those kinds of prejudices existed between the Irish and the Italians, and then the Italians and the Puerto Ricans in New York as neighborhoods and communities transform. Immigrants have always been generally poor folks looking for a better life and they have also been crapped on by the generations of immigrants that came before them. From what I have seen the hispanics are generally pretty family oriented, hard working, decent consumers, and when legal very pro-US.
When legal. That is the defining point. Most illegals are NOT interested in upholding citizenship details, but instead are looking for a quicker buck than dealing with life in their own country. To the point of the Mexican government making one FUCKLOAD of a profit from doing this. And yet US citizens will vote people into office that will make it even more lucrative for the Mexican government to get more money for this.
I don't have anything against hispanics, and nothing against anchor babies that have done something with their life - Carlos Mencia included. It is the abusers that don't plan on putting anything back into the system because they want to take the easy way through life by taking advantage of another country's welfare system that get my ire, and believe it or not, a substantial number of wetbacks are only here to cause problems. Really, would Canadians like it if US citizens started to make forged ID cards to take advantage of Canada's health care system? Oh, wait, that already is happening, and it isn't liked nor is it legal, and nor should it be excused.
Then we also have to take a look at the crime rates involving immigrants in the past. There are a few selective examples, but nothing as widespread or bad as it currently is. The immigration rates, during events like the potato famine in Ireland, are also astoundingly diverse.
They were shit upon, even being legal. The problems caused here were entirely based upon the immigrants being Irish, and not upon their legal state. The modern illegals do get what they deserve in most cases, as some illegals even make a profit by doing the same slum lord shit to their "own people", after they have bought a house with an insured govt. home loan that even common citizens can't take advantage of because they are white.
A million Irish came here due to the potato famine, over the course of the famine. Three million wetbacks invade the US yearly, and using the conservative number of just 35% of which going to crime and welfare, means that this is an epidemic to a level that the US has NEVER seen before.
So who is paying the price for US lawmakers using their office to make money from illegal aliens?
That's right, you are.
Otherwise, there wouldn't be the whole landscaping crew, only one work visa among them, working out in the open. Guess who trims the lawn at the local Federal Building? Illegals, except for one, and overlooked because the company who has the contracting bid hires whomever they want, and nobody bothers to do a real background check on them. The same goes for many fast food places, believe it or not. Yes, the "security" in this country is that shit, and therefore Homeland Security means little to the illegals in turn.
