Iran next? Germany and the US disagree

Discussion in 'General Discussion Forum' started by welsh, Aug 14, 2005.

  1. welsh

    welsh This ghoul has seen it all

    Apr 5, 2003
    Oops. Did we invade the wrong country?

    Should we invade another.

    Apparently W is figuring since our guys are already in the midst of an ugly guerrilla war in Iraq, we might as well get into another one in Iran.

    I guess there is some kind of logic in that.

    Apparently the Germans are saying no- that force is not an option.

    But then you have to ask, if you take force off the table, what else does the EU and the US have to bargain with? Something that could work?

    This is where that old coercive diplomacy means something- "Do it or we blow you away" is said so that things get done but ideally the guns don't come out of the holster.

    But what if a member of your gang says, "Hey, what the fuck? You mean you are planning to draw as this asshole? Fuck that. Count me out."

    What are the remaining options?

     
  2. John Uskglass

    John Uskglass Venerable Relic of the Wastes

    Aug 29, 2003
    Gethard is just trying to win another election by pulling out anti-American bullshit like he did in the last one. It won't work.
     
  3. Jahakob

    Jahakob First time out of the vault

    89
    Aug 4, 2005
    Well, the war was a failure, it is still raging, street-style. I don't see your point? That "anti-American bullshit" is pretty true bullshit. Are you american or something? :P
     
  4. John Uskglass

    John Uskglass Venerable Relic of the Wastes

    Aug 29, 2003
    Every option has to be on the table or Iran will never negotiate, which will inevitably end up with Tel Aviv going up like a Roman candle doused in Gasoline and packed with a few tons of C4.
     
  5. Max Demian

    Max Demian It Wandered In From the Wastes

    104
    Apr 28, 2005
    As far as I'm concerned Iran should be allowed to continue with their uranium enrichment (or whatever they're doing) program... if Israel can have the bomb, then so can Iran. It's only fair. And yes, the US foreign policy is beginning to get on everybody’s nerves lately. Not to mention their hypocrisy…I sincerely doubt it’ll come to a military confrontation between the confronting parties – and it’s even less likely Israel would pull a stunt like the one with Iraq in the 80s when they performed an air raid, bombing the shit out of their nuclear reactor. ( They’re just too far away, and Iran could have very likely purchased modern anti-aircraft defense systems from Russia that would make the mission completely suicidal). I say, we give those people a break. They deserve it.
     
  6. Jahakob

    Jahakob First time out of the vault

    89
    Aug 4, 2005
    On the other hand, the state is fucked up.
    The state executes gay people and I think the opposition is having it pretty 'hard'.
    Islamistic republics means only one thing... teh bathtub.
     
  7. Maphusio

    Maphusio Sonny, I Watched the Vault Bein' Built!

    Sep 25, 2004
    John, the use of force does not have to be threatened for someone to come to the table. Especially in this case. Lets look at it as black and white as possible.

    Iran: Wants the bomb or something just as good
    UN: Needs to provide something JUST as good

    Now this does not necessarily mean military supplies. Aid can be given in a great many more categories that would be equally as valuable to Iran. Unfortunately, that price I guarantee you is going to be very, very high.

    With that said good ol' Uncle Sam under the flag of W had all ready planned on launching another campaign against Iran as soon as they entered Iraq. They want change in the Middle East, they want reform... And as far as they were concerned, they were going to bring it in W's reign. I guess that little pesky thing called reality stepped in.

    Anti-American bullshit? Heh heh it's just about as much bull shit as the "Dog shit on the train" article Welsh has just posted.
     
  8. DirtyDreamDesigner

    DirtyDreamDesigner Venerable Relic of the Wastes
    Moderator

    Apr 15, 2005
    And he will fail. Miserably.
    Only thing it will accomplish is continuation of violence all throughout the world, and it will be worse than it ever was.

    Oh, yeah, while we're on the subject of Israel, have you noticed how if America arms some nation in a couple of years they turn on them; Russia, Vietnam, Iran, Iraq...
    Maybe in twenty years or so we can expect a war between the US and Israel...[/half irony]
     
  9. Maphusio

    Maphusio Sonny, I Watched the Vault Bein' Built!

    Sep 25, 2004
    my god... if America everwent up against Israel... IT would most probably end up being obliterated. And Israel just might bring the battle to our front. But who knows what great fortunes the future will bring.

    It is rather ironic... maybe we will beat the shit out of GB too. Yu know... for... err for Laurance of Arabia *shakes fist*
     
  10. DirtyDreamDesigner

    DirtyDreamDesigner Venerable Relic of the Wastes
    Moderator

    Apr 15, 2005
    Well, maybe not GB, but France and Germany... If you're not with us you're against us... Freedom fries, anyone? :mrgreen:

    EDIT: Just ask CCR, he'd nuke FR & GE in a heartbeat.
     
  11. Dapper Dan Man

    Dapper Dan Man Water Chip? Been There, Done That
    Orderite

    920
    Oct 6, 2004

    Give them a break? Fair? You have a very warped sense of international politics, friend. Besides the fac ttha tnations exist to perpetuate their own influence and power, the fact that Iran is a theocratic and authoritarian oligarchy cloaked in the veneer of moral 'justice' is a farce to any notion of being 'fair'. Please, explain to me how exactly nuclear materials should be doled out equitably to the world; sharing in the Big Sandlot makes everyone happy, right?
     
  12. Brother None

    Brother None This ghoul has seen it all
    Staff Member Admin Orderite

    Apr 3, 2003
    Don't be a fool, John. The threat of violence is not a viable point of negation if you can't back it up. Luxembourg isn't going to get trade concessions from the US by threatening an invasion.

    Iran isn't stupid. They have an efficient, well-run army and a population of which everyone but the kids hate the US. They know and they know that the US knows that the US can't afford to invade Iran on top of Aghanistan and Iraq. And everyone knows that if the US does, they'll overstretch and be forced to flee soon enough.

    You people don't have the backbone for this kind of stuff anymore. Deal with it.

    In fact, the entire negotiation becomes moot and stupid by Russia and China backing Iran, as the EU and US can't do shit without those two, in this case.
     
  13. calculon000

    calculon000 Sonny, I Watched the Vault Bein' Built!

    Feb 10, 2004
    What if Iran is telling the truth? What if they do just want to produce electric power with nuclear reactors?

    I say let them keep their program but make them accept UN inspectors.

    Bush is just using this as another excuse for war.
     
  14. Maphusio

    Maphusio Sonny, I Watched the Vault Bein' Built!

    Sep 25, 2004
    Bush would never do that :roll:
     
  15. Max Demian

    Max Demian It Wandered In From the Wastes

    104
    Apr 28, 2005
    It's their problem, not ours. One they should resolve on their own. Do you honestly believe if Iran had no strategic importance to the US they would be making such a fuss about it? Self defense you say? - Bullshit! Altruism? You can't possibly be that naive... if it's about saving lives then just take a look at all those poor people down there in Africa... just how often do they hit the headlines? Seldom, at best. Coz, why should anybody care about them? Yeah, why? What’s to profit? They’re been bled dry already… just let them be miserable as they are – the weaker, the better. They’ll be dealt with accordingly when the time comes for it – when it becomes more profitable to do so. I in general have no qualms with the stronger ones oppressing the weaker – it’s only natural that they do so. To do anything else would be blasphemy against nature – but of course, one has to contend his right of ascendance with opposing powers engaged – just like the US will have to, at the expense of all unsuspecting players of this grand game… people are like sheep, let’s face it. The truth is too much to bear, we need others to choose are good and bad, to tell us where to go, what to do…and thus pay the price for not having to face the dreadful moment of having our eyes open. So we accept being manipulated and in the same time comfort ourselves with self-complacent lies. Illusions are what holds this world together. To cast them off means to die. Get my point?
     
  16. Brother None

    Brother None This ghoul has seen it all
    Staff Member Admin Orderite

    Apr 3, 2003
    Pretty Frith-damned highly unlikely, that.
     
  17. John Uskglass

    John Uskglass Venerable Relic of the Wastes

    Aug 29, 2003
    They are'nt. Why would one of the top oil producing nations in the world, with if anything an excess of the stuff, need to have something as incredibly unprofitable as nuclear power?
    Because the UN has such a good record of doing such things? The UNSC (not the ENTIRE UN, wooz) is useful for two things: Jack and Shit, and jack's left town.

    If Iran gets wepons, it's pretty easy to see what happens.

    'Invasion'? Nope. Military options? Hell fucking yes. Hitting Natzan, Arak and Bushehr is a possibility. That is why Gethard is flatly wrong and clearly pandering to his inane constittuency.

    And the vast majority of the population is kids.

    o rly?

    Yeah, I'm sure China and Russia would go to war to help Iran.
     
  18. Jahakob

    Jahakob First time out of the vault

    89
    Aug 4, 2005


    Those no-good Iranians are funded by russian NOD! :x
     
  19. Jammet

    Jammet Leopardster

    43
    May 30, 2005
    To be clear: What Gerhard has been doing those past few years was in no way shape or form anything anti-American. It is easy to accuse, I know. But this politician did his job right back then.
     
  20. calculon000

    calculon000 Sonny, I Watched the Vault Bein' Built!

    Feb 10, 2004
    Well I think the UN has at least a couple tricks up their sleeve if this comes to a head. :twisted: