Is Christianity standing in the way of progress?
- Thread starter Sander
- Start date
I'm tellin you. If we go ahead and start making clones, say just 1 or two per person, let em grow to about the age 18 or ninteen.. I figure that'll give us plenty of time to perfect that suspended animation/reanimation thing.. Drop em in the freezer and thaw the parts and organs out as needed... and if you even need blood for a transfusion or to replace the massive ammounts of blood you llost through a deviated septum due to trying to do a line of that powder in sour skittles bags. Bam, thaw out one of your freezer-babies, draw out a little blood, sedate frost-boy let him regenerate the blood, stick him in a zip-lock bag and toss him back in the freezer till your ready to harveest somthing else...
And say you dont need a certan organ, you can always sell it to get Ozrat the facial reconstructive surgery he so desperately needs.
just sayin..
And say you dont need a certan organ, you can always sell it to get Ozrat the facial reconstructive surgery he so desperately needs.
just sayin..
welsh
Junkmaster
What worries me about Christianity is the objectivication of Evil.
Because you have this notion of Good and Evil, Heaven and Hell, Jesus and Satan, you also incorporate this notion that good and evil exist outside, made more simple by the idea that if you are Christian you are one of the good guys and if you are evil your are one of the bad guys.
More importantly however, is the notion of sin as an alien force, a disease perhaps, that corrupts and that can be exorcised.
But the problem is that good Christians often do evil things, often blinded by their own dedication to Christ or the idea that they have been saved.
What we recognize as evil is often part of the human conscience. It's not to say that sometimes notions of evil may exist outside of the body, but the danger is that we often ignore those causes that actually allow evil to be, and that these may be part of the human condition. Blinding us by faith is not the way to resolve the problems of mankind, and I am not convinced that curing them through Jesus is the answer either.
Because you have this notion of Good and Evil, Heaven and Hell, Jesus and Satan, you also incorporate this notion that good and evil exist outside, made more simple by the idea that if you are Christian you are one of the good guys and if you are evil your are one of the bad guys.
More importantly however, is the notion of sin as an alien force, a disease perhaps, that corrupts and that can be exorcised.
But the problem is that good Christians often do evil things, often blinded by their own dedication to Christ or the idea that they have been saved.
What we recognize as evil is often part of the human conscience. It's not to say that sometimes notions of evil may exist outside of the body, but the danger is that we often ignore those causes that actually allow evil to be, and that these may be part of the human condition. Blinding us by faith is not the way to resolve the problems of mankind, and I am not convinced that curing them through Jesus is the answer either.
John Uskglass
Venerable Relic of the Wastes
welsh, I don't want to get all Gnostic on your ass, but Christanity generally belives that the felsh is sinful, and that redemption is found thru Christ's death on the cross and resurection. Thus the recognition of the evil of flesh and attempted atonement is a primary mover of Christanity. Though you do have a point.
welsh
Junkmaster
CC- The thing is, and I think the download on the Jesus Factor thread explores this, is that Christianity should force the individual to be introspective enough to see the sin within themselves.
Generally however, one doesn't see that. We find it easy to talk, as George Bush does, in the language of Good and Evil without really defining it. And sometimes we use words of unclear definition. Take for instance "terrorism". Accordingly, we are at war against Terrorism and that terrorism is evil. But does that include state sponsored terrorism as well, and if so, what about our allies that practice state terrorism?
This is all pretty murky stuff.
One of the things I do believe, as a Catholic, is that evil does manifest itself, that it is real. But damn if I can always define it. The argument that "Sin is that which is not Godly" is not going to work when the person telling me is a priest in a confessionaly, holding out a candy bar and asking me to come inside for a moment.
What makes it worse is the evengelical ideal that "since we have been born again in Christ, we are blessed with Christ." I have seen this attitude give a person the egotism to believe that just because they have undergone the 'born again' experience, God loves them and they can tell us what is sin and what is not. If anything, the 80s should have taught us to be wary of false engelical prophets.
Back to Confucius who basically said, worry about the metaphysical later, worry about the real now. Too much emphasis on faith in a supernatural / metaphysical idea comes at the cost of dealing with the problems of the here and now. There is one day reserved for God. Leave it at that. For the other 6, worry about your fellow man.
Generally however, one doesn't see that. We find it easy to talk, as George Bush does, in the language of Good and Evil without really defining it. And sometimes we use words of unclear definition. Take for instance "terrorism". Accordingly, we are at war against Terrorism and that terrorism is evil. But does that include state sponsored terrorism as well, and if so, what about our allies that practice state terrorism?
This is all pretty murky stuff.
One of the things I do believe, as a Catholic, is that evil does manifest itself, that it is real. But damn if I can always define it. The argument that "Sin is that which is not Godly" is not going to work when the person telling me is a priest in a confessionaly, holding out a candy bar and asking me to come inside for a moment.
What makes it worse is the evengelical ideal that "since we have been born again in Christ, we are blessed with Christ." I have seen this attitude give a person the egotism to believe that just because they have undergone the 'born again' experience, God loves them and they can tell us what is sin and what is not. If anything, the 80s should have taught us to be wary of false engelical prophets.
Back to Confucius who basically said, worry about the metaphysical later, worry about the real now. Too much emphasis on faith in a supernatural / metaphysical idea comes at the cost of dealing with the problems of the here and now. There is one day reserved for God. Leave it at that. For the other 6, worry about your fellow man.
Yeah, those damn bastidos! They were also white too. Perhaps we should kill all the white people LOL
It was just an excuse to go and kill people. It wasn't the cause. Similairly to The Matrix and Columbine or something. Christianity isn't some Spanish Inquisition like cult, it's just some rules to live by. Though psychos seem to love it. It doesn't actually say anywhere that masturbation is bad for instance, though people will happily torture anyone found masturbating mebbe.
Meh. It's not the religion itself that's bad, all religeons are are usually positive mind control or something. Just the weak-minded seem to find it fascinating, like terrorists or the spanish inquisition. mebbe
Elissar: Organs explode when frozen. Too much water. Unless you want to reconstruct organs cell by cell you might as well just harvest them from other people.
It was just an excuse to go and kill people. It wasn't the cause. Similairly to The Matrix and Columbine or something. Christianity isn't some Spanish Inquisition like cult, it's just some rules to live by. Though psychos seem to love it. It doesn't actually say anywhere that masturbation is bad for instance, though people will happily torture anyone found masturbating mebbe.
Meh. It's not the religion itself that's bad, all religeons are are usually positive mind control or something. Just the weak-minded seem to find it fascinating, like terrorists or the spanish inquisition. mebbe
Elissar: Organs explode when frozen. Too much water. Unless you want to reconstruct organs cell by cell you might as well just harvest them from other people.
Moral and etichs is different from person to person+ we have psycopaths who don´t really seem to care to much about either. I can see how we in old times could need a priest who went upp to the big guy who noone could beat and tell him, "when you die and die you shall you will be tormented in clouds of burning sulphur and boliing water, while I will have XXXX number of villiong virgins waiting."
I think it might make people behave themselves a little bit.
My theory is that the idead of "god" comes from funny mushrooms.
I think it might make people behave themselves a little bit.
My theory is that the idead of "god" comes from funny mushrooms.
Paladin Solo
So Old I'm Losing Radiation Signs
To hell with it...clone like crazy...then make all clones soldiers, and send them to around the world to divide and conquer.
Psychotic Nutcase
First time out of the vault
deleted.
welsh
Junkmaster
Looks like Kerry has taken a stand on the science- religion issue.
Apparently Kerry has taken a stand saying Bush is anti-science because of his bans on a variety of research- from global warming to step cell research.
http://www.cnn.com/2004/ALLPOLITICS/06/21/kerry.science.ap/index.html
Should the country be more supportive of science or religious issues?
Apparently Kerry has taken a stand saying Bush is anti-science because of his bans on a variety of research- from global warming to step cell research.
http://www.cnn.com/2004/ALLPOLITICS/06/21/kerry.science.ap/index.html
Should the country be more supportive of science or religious issues?
Any country should support scientific research, taking in account the potential benefits for the community. Religion is only an individual's stance to God, if he believes in him/her/it or not, no sense of countries additionally sponsoring the biggest scam on earth.
While I laugh at nerds, I loathe religious fanatics.
While I laugh at nerds, I loathe religious fanatics.
Wooz69 said:
Yet religion is a guiding force in human morality, tho' it is not, as religious people would have it, the source. It has served Western culture in many ways in its history, and certainly has done enough to outweight the infamous "bad things".
Religion is also a sensitive matter.
But, unlike what people believe, so is science. There are too many fields of science that overlap onto human morality. And even funnier, political parties, especially in America's lobby-based system, are too often influenced by the big companies not to support some forms of science "too much". Energy could probably be a lot cheaper and cleaner by now if it wasn't for the oil-lobbies.
What I'm saying is that religion nowadays shouldn't be as guild-oriented as it was in the middle ages. It did a lot of good things throughout European history, granted. But, at least in Western society, religion is mostly outdated and tends to degenerate into dogma. And excuse me for the quote, but it really seems to me that it became "opium for the masses". Meh, the worst part of the bad doings are still alive and well today.
Also, I'm aware that religion isn't dealt with in the same way that it is in Poland. Hard to think about a more dogmatic populace than the people going to church every Sunday to hear the damn cleric (who the fuck does he think he is?) tell them how to live.
Meh, I doubt that financing religious institutions would do any good.
Also, I'm aware that religion isn't dealt with in the same way that it is in Poland. Hard to think about a more dogmatic populace than the people going to church every Sunday to hear the damn cleric (who the fuck does he think he is?) tell them how to live.
Meh, I doubt that financing religious institutions would do any good.
SkynetV4
Mildly Dipped
If you require a religion to teach you morals, ethics, and whatnot...I pity you.
SkynetV3 said:
Considering how Roman Catholic Panama is, I would think it a fair gamble to say that while your morals are not directly taken from religion, the moral set you have was once, religions past, originated by Christian teachings.
Deal with it.
wooz69 said:
*shrugs* People often refuse to deal with the realities of religion because it opposes our new-fangled concepts of "individuality" and "freedom".
Well fuck that. You need something to tie the people together and guide them. Religions is a pretty easy way of doing so. Not everyone is endowed with a sense of love for your neighbour, and countries that don't teach this, like the US, have to compensate with insane amounts of patriotism.
Religion shouldn't really be seen in the same context as it used to be. As a power, a force. Rather it's yet another means to an end in our society. Another tool-for-trade.
SkynetV4
Mildly Dipped
Partly, right. You are right that the Roman-Christian majority here did give me a few principles (that when I analyze them, they clash with my current beliefs (if you could call them that)): i.e. the virgin girls being preferable than other girls for marriage, the fact that things like smoking and doing drugs seem inherently wrong to me (aside from medical reasons, I did want to be a doctor a long time ago). You are wrong however in believing that my benevolence (sp?) and good will have anything to do with religion. Trust me.
*edit*Its a good thing you are such a good natured mod Kharn.
*edit*Its a good thing you are such a good natured mod Kharn.
You are wrong in believing that your benevolence does not stem from Christianity.
Christian morals have dominated every bit of the Western world for the past 15 centuries. Whether or not you like it, the fact that you may see compassion, forgiveness or how you define good stem from the Christian teachings.
SkynetV3 said:
Think in a more obscure sense. Much as Sander said, you shouldn't concentrate on Christianity's rules, but rather the feeling it expressed. It's a very discussable subject how much Christianity stems from human morality or how much human morality stems from Christianity.
However, it can't be denied that Western morality, and thus the morality it's spread with its big guns throughout the world, has been heavily influenced by Christianity. You, personally, may not be influenced directly by religion, but the society you live in has largely been formed the way it is under influence of Christianity. Hence you have been formed under heavy influence of Christianity.
SkynetV3 said:
Yes it is, tho' I'm not sure what you're referring to
