Alphadrop
A right proper chap.
Phil the Nuka-Cola Dude said:
Well a second hand buyer could just pirate the DLC.
Is EA drunk or just insane ? "EA's 'Project $10'
- Thread starter Crni Vuk
- Start date
Well a second hand buyer could just pirate the DLC.
Sander said:
Tagaziel said:
I am so glad German consumers have a different imagination regarding what a "digital" product is and that even with digitaly bought products you still have rights. Thats why certain policys have no meaning in Germany like Photoshop or Corel once used (they had the idea that you should not be allowed to sell the bought used software), or a few from Steam/Valve cause in Germany we have the idea if you bought a digital product (even if it was just a "present") you still have the "right" to sell it since you "payd" money for it so for example you could sell your Steam account here in Germany to whom ever you want and they cant do shit about it!. Otherwise it would be a different form of contract. We have the believing that if you buy a product youre the "holder" and "owner" and this here it is no difference if the product is food, a car or some digital product. I am not sure how it is in the US. but for us here in Germany that is a difference cause you can have the product but still not own it (lease contract). If you purchase something with in a simple act of sale you have all the rights to sell it later if you like. Including all "presents" that come with the product.
If you guys think EA has the right to charge money from you for nothing cause what ever if people now buy the game used or not the "present" (DLCs) you get have already been payed by the usual costumers with the original game bought then I doubt anyone will convince you
You know this goes for me in a similar direction like "we allow you only to watch this movie 3 times or listen to this song 3 times even if you payed the full price for it" that companies like Disney and I think even Sony wanted to do. Such things would never work in Germany cause they would have to face a wave of sues from our consumer protection.
Makenshi
Ahoy, ye salty dogs!
@Crni Vuk: brazilian minds are tuned to german's in this one 
thats nice to hear. Some tend to believe that "digital products" are a different form of product when in fact they are just "informations" (if you really want to be accurate) and for such situations we have already in Germany very clear laws regarding such contracts for a long time cause games have not been the first to use digital ways of distribution. Even if you buy "informations" in what ever way either by knowledge, or patents its "yours". And that means of course that you have all the right in the world to sell that to "others".
Of course this works only with contracts in Germany if you buy some EA product and are forced to make some account in the internet there is not much one can do here. Though I also havnt seen anyone trying to sue them. Maybe it would even work? Who knows. Consumers managed to get Valve so far to writte on their games the warning that you require a internet conection for your game (it was with HL2) and they have really not been happy about that cause now many people had the right to return the game cause it was not clear before it that you need a internet conection for a single player game.
Of course this works only with contracts in Germany if you buy some EA product and are forced to make some account in the internet there is not much one can do here. Though I also havnt seen anyone trying to sue them. Maybe it would even work? Who knows. Consumers managed to get Valve so far to writte on their games the warning that you require a internet conection for your game (it was with HL2) and they have really not been happy about that cause now many people had the right to return the game cause it was not clear before it that you need a internet conection for a single player game.
Wait, what? I never said you don't have rights. I said that these products work differently from walking into a store and buying some hardware.Crni Vuk said:
Nothing is prohibiting people from selling their accounts that are tied to the DLC.Crni Vuk said:If you guys think EA has the right to charge money from you for nothing cause what ever if people now buy the game used or not the "present" (DLCs) you get have already been payed by the usual costumers with the original game bought then I doubt anyone will convince you
Also, at times this thread skirts dangerously close to supporting piracy. Don't.
Yes well I think I understand youre point better now. Sorry for any confusion on my side. But by saying that. Why should that change the way how you can wield or use your product? I know you dont eventualy like this examples. But to buy a product a real product that comes with a present I should usualy have the right to sell it later (used) eventualy. And now suddenly I dont have the right to "sell" the present with it as well to assure that the used product has more or less the same qualities like originaly? That is what I dont understand and it is here for me not important HOW I purchased the product either walking in a store and get a CD in my hands with another CD that has some free extra content on it for example OR if I download the game in some internet store/Steam with a DLC attached to it. I just see here a differenence in distribution. Not so much in the product itself!Sander said:
Germany is one of those nations with the most bureaucracy that can be sometimes a good thing and a bad thing. In the cases of contracts its usualy a good thing. Cause we have so many laws and definitions regarding such situations that it helps the consumer. If you get a here a "present" with your product, regardles if digital or "real" its "yours", its a "present" with the purchased product again regardless in which way you bought it. Important is the way you pay and the rights you get with it. If they want you to behave as consumer differently they should not call it a act of sale. As I mentioned already earlier a lot of policies by companies like EA, Valve and such have no meaning in Germany when they directly violate current German laws regarding contracts and tradings. And many times that is what happens. So in points where contracts are contradicting German laws are in place. Like companies telling you that you "cant" sell this bought software. Even if some software company would not allow it for example they could not sue you for selling your "bought" copy over E-bay in Germany even with all presents you got with the product! And thats a good thing.
EA and other companies can go on and explain me that a digital product is different to a game on "CD or DVD", but that means not much to me. For me it simply is a product which I can buy. And if this product gets a present somehow tied to it. It should be "my" right to give this present to whom ever I want without forcing those people to pay 10$ to EA.
thats not the point for me. Point is that they demand from people who want to buy the game used to pay "again" for the "free content" that should be the right of the first consumer to sell to who ever he want. And if it would be a game developed in Germany. It would be that way. I know German laws mean nothing to EA. But its just as example to show that it usualy should be different. That the politics EA and other companies show here are "bad" for the consumer. That they demand from you money while you dont get offered anything. They had no aditional costs with the DLC and free content cause the original first consumer already "bought" it and "payed" for it. Even if it is meant as "present" it came with the original product. And that is what counts for me. Its more about the principle. If they want people to "pay" for it they should sell it from the begining and not give it as "gift". But that would not work cause well would not look that good I guess. Some kind of twisted marketing in my eyes ...Sander said:Nothing is prohibiting people from selling their accounts that are tied to the DLC.Crni Vuk said:If you guys think EA has the right to charge money from you for nothing cause what ever if people now buy the game used or not the "present" (DLCs) you get have already been payed by the usual consumer with the original game bought then I doubt anyone will convince you
Also, at times this thread skirts dangerously close to supporting piracy. Don't.
I know you dont like the car example. But why when it fits so perfectly? Like to buy a car and get 4 aditional wheels as "gift" to every new buy and suddenly you are NOT allowed to sell those wheels with your car to another person so he has to "pay" the shopman for the wheels again? No one would do that. Why? Of course cause its "bad" its not "consumer friendly". It works with digital distributions cause people let them do that. But I do not accept that definition. And luckily many German consumer protections neither.
These analogies don't work because you don't buy a similar product. When you buy a game, you buy a game. If you then get an additional access code for release-day DLC, you're not actually getting DLC, you're getting(dum dum dum) access to DLC. Tied to an account.Crni Vuk said:
And actually, this sort of thing does happen with second-hand market products. Insurance and service contracts often don't carr over from first to second-hand owners. If you buy a used product, you often don't have the right to get it repaired by the original producer.
Also, and I feel like I keep repeating this over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over again: if you don't like this business model, no one is forcing you to buy their stuff. No one is forcing anyone to buy their stuff.
TheWesDude
Sonny, I Watched the Vault Bein' Built!
yup, thats it in a nutshell
nobody can force a company to provide everything a non-physical product has to offer. you step into bounds of what exactly the original product is.
and actually, especially with how big games are on consoles with achievements and such, what i would fully expect to start seeing where you cannot even "beat" the game without those day 0 DLCs. such as you need to have a weapon/spell to beat the last boss, which you can only get from that day 0 dlc, that way proving who at least paid for that DLC to get those "achievement" points.
nobody can force a company to provide everything a non-physical product has to offer. you step into bounds of what exactly the original product is.
and actually, especially with how big games are on consoles with achievements and such, what i would fully expect to start seeing where you cannot even "beat" the game without those day 0 DLCs. such as you need to have a weapon/spell to beat the last boss, which you can only get from that day 0 dlc, that way proving who at least paid for that DLC to get those "achievement" points.
Sander said:
As I said Sander. We Germans think different. And all I can say is, I am happy we do.