Is there a "God Gene?"

Wooz said:
I'm just waiting for those people to 'discover' a gene that determines your artistic and musical tastes.
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Yeah, they can call it the "Angst" gene. :lol:

As for the god existence thing, I think it would be sane to assume that you have to prove something exists to assume it exists. You have to assume that something does not exist if you can't prove otherwise.

I propose that every electron is made up of 103.73 bran muffins, and I will continue to believe it until you can prove otherwise.
 
quietfanatic said:
I don't usually like fence sitting, but being agnostic seems to be the only position for me. There is no conclusive evidence for or against, but I don't think it would change things much even if there was.
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Aye, until something happens to sway me in one direction or another, that's where I'm gonna stay. I do tend slightly towards Atheism, but only because it makes slightly more sense (to me, anyway) than any religion I've been told about.

I would actually find it comforting to think that there is not a God/Allah/whatever. I find it hard to entrust myself into the hands of a god that would allow all the shit that goes on to continue to go on.
 
Not you're place to judge God. No one's place.

Genetics is the new Phrenology. It's almost all bunk. Like I pointed out, no one's been able to disprove the fact that religion can go in and out of societies within a matter of months. See Quebec.
 
ConstipatedCraprunner said:
Genetics is the new Phrenology. It's almost all bunk.
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Which part? It sure isn't perfect, but it's one of the greatest areas of scientific study for understanding the workings of life on earth. An ignorant Baha'i friend of mine thinks genetic inheritance is irrelevant and that , for example, anyone can be a genius with the right education. (A new brain might be helpful as well.)
 
I'm not saying that genius is'nt all education, but Humans have a couple of thousands more genes then mice. There's litterally no room for all our emotions and practices to be programmed.
 
Maybe our 'junk' DNA is better or more efficiently used than that of a mouse.

Seriously, both environment and hereditary are very important. Anyone who completely denies the importance of either is very foolish. It is the balance that is debatable.

My personal opinion is that the balance is more towards genetics and therefore human nature doesn't change (human potential and the ground base).

EDIT: Me stoopid.
 
Well, frankly, I don't really see why it would be hard to say that human nature does'nt change but enviorment is more influential then genetics. Hell, I believe that easy.

That's unlikely. Mice are generally a lot better species. We just got lucky with our oversized frontal lobes, Mice are not a fluke of evolution.
 
Oops. Stoopid me, I should not have linked those points. Evolution involves change. On a much larger time scale, human nature might change, but not any time soon. I do think that evolutionary theory is missing stuff as well, but it's the best I've got.
 
I'll wait for some responses from other scientists, first, though. The scientific community has this nice ability to criticize itself.
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THANK GOD!

CCR I can clarify what your saying quite a bit. As a Biology student (not to brag) I have learned that although most living things have the same amount of gene's in their DNA they can be VERY different in terms of arrangement. Also that its not really important as to the amount of A, T, P, and G, but rather the order they come in that determines the genetic output. So two species can be completely different by having the same gene's with the same amino acids, but in different order's.

I hope that makes sense.

Oh and I am both RELIGIOUS and SCIENTIFIC. I've studied evolution as well as the teachings of various faiths. How I reconcile the two? I have no idea...must be evidence of God's work huh?!

Sincerely,
The Vault Dweller
 
Oh and I am both RELIGIOUS and SCIENTIFIC. I've studied evolution as well as the teachings of various faiths. How I reconcile the two? I have no idea...must be evidence of God's work huh?!
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It's a miracle! What are you studying in particular? How far are you into your degree?
 
Thanks for noticing Quiet Fanatic.

I am in my third year of college. I should have my Associate's Degree by the end of this year if everything goes well. I know it should only take two years, but the problem is I failed a one of my required courses my second semester and had to wait til my fourth to retake it. I passed it, but the classes that needed it as a pre-requisite were pushed ahead a year. It all ended up just fine though as now Im only taking three classes this year and Ive heard from those ahead of me that when they took Organic Chemistry together with electives they either failed the electives and passed Organic or passed the electives and failed Organic. Im taking Organic and though its one class I work the equivalent of two classes just for it! So taking it by itself is saving me time and money...though I did it by mistake.

Sincerely,
The Vault Dweller
 
I might do some similar stuff in the future. Supposedly organic chemistry is difficult, but it is one of the most interesting branches.
 
CCR: Go read up on DNA and DNA structures. A vast portion of DNA is "junk" DNA, meaning that it's there doing useless things. Evolution has, interestingly, come up witha lot of useless DNA. Evidence of this is the fact that there are crabs with loads more DNA than us, because DNA size doesn't mean jack shit, DNA efficiency and the amount of DNA used does.

Quietfanatic: we're coming into philoophy and religion here, and in this field, you cannot prove anything whatsoever. Not even that you exist. Because you can never prove that the logic you are using to come up with your "proof" is correct as well. Which is also why no-one has been able to find the answer to "why are we here."

Alec: You are dismissing feelings and experiences other people have had beforehand without any form of proof whatsoever. That's silly from a scientific and logical perspective, you should be critical and sceptical, but outright dismissing something just because you happen to think it's silly is just, well, silly.
Also note that the story of "If God created, then who created God" goes for science as well, you can go on in endless loops with that, ending up with either the conclusion that our perception of time is flawed, or that our logic is flawed, or that at some point they just 'existed'.
 
ConstipatedCraprunner said:
Not you're place to judge God. No one's place.
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No, it isn't my place. I'm also completely incapable of judging a (potential) being that would act in this way. Which is what I meant, although I didn't say that. The fact that I cannot understand God at all scares the crap outta me and gives me an inclination to believe/hope that there is no being, that it is all random.
 
Sander said:
Alec: You are dismissing feelings and experiences other people have had beforehand without any form of proof whatsoever. That's silly from a scientific and logical perspective, you should be critical and sceptical, but outright dismissing something just because you happen to think it's silly is just, well, silly.
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The thing is: I do believe that some people think they've had a "religious experience", but I think they just misinterpret some brainwaves, some body chemistry. I think it's just some voodoo in the head. Like "appearances" of saints are probably only hallucinations caused by some sort of schizofrenia, religious feelings and emotions might be the work of simple chemistry, you know: hormones and such. Mental drugs. I mean, think about it, the whole orchestration of a mass, the ritual, that's not unlike some voodoo spell that turns you into ONE OF THE POD-PEOPLE! Uhm... so to speak. Anyway, it works on so many levels. The cross on the wall in kindergarten, quite similar to the nazi-cross used to brainwash the Germans some 65 years ago, well, that symbol is basically a friggin' emotional lobotomy. That symbol will haunt some kids for the rest of their miserable lives. And make them make all kinds of crazy decisions during those miserable lives, like getting married and having kids and fasting or kneeling down to some friggin' statue. Or blowing up buildings and cutting people's throats. For some brain fart. Jeez. I'm sure Freud wrote some interesting shit about how symbols can seriously mess your brain up. Jung did so as well.

Sander said:
Also note that the story of "If God created, then who created God" goes for science as well, you can go on in endless loops with that, ending up with either the conclusion that our perception of time is flawed, or that our logic is flawed, or that at some point they just 'existed'.
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I like Nietzsche's idea of eternal return, I've said that before. It works for me. I like the idea that reality is structured like some big friggin' moëbius ring, something that goes on forever and is always the same, a pulsating universe. Endless repeat. You see repetitious patterns everywhere in life. In heart beats, in a slice of a tree trunk, in human behaviour, in music, in the seasons, the movement of the planets, time, DNA structure, atoms and molecules, language, history, breathing, work, the cycle of life itself getting born, growing up with people who are getting old, college, looking for something to fuck, looking for work, marrying and having kids who grow up while you get old enough and die while they go get something to fuck and so on. There's some small disturbances in all of them, like an occassional cough, or a typo or a meteor crashing down, you have a déja vu, you miss a heartbeat and sigh, your life turns out to be complete crap while your neighbour is rich and popular or vice versa. Reality striking a false note. Though, all in all it's all about repetition --with subtle variations on each level. The drag of daily life, the rise and fall of nations. Sex. The internet. It's everywhere. And you know why? Because repetition is the heart beat of the universe. It's the sound of cosmic boredom. And if everything is repeated somehow, then somehow life itself will be repeated as well, with most probably only minor differences. That works for me.

:rule:
 
this is a little off topic but a few of you here seem to not believe in god because of the "shit" he lets happen, and i understand how you can believe this. one of the things i would like to point out though is this, mans grief is his own doing and as humans we have agency to create or destroy. you as a person cannot just stand with your eyes cast to heaven with your hand open, its your duty to live a good life and to contribute to your fellow mans wellbeing. we have been given the ability to discern right from wrong and with it the ability to make the world a better or a worse place. you cannot blame "god" for the "shit" happening on earth today, its mankinds fault, as we have free agency to to good or to do wrong.


as for this religious gene, i personally believe that God is the greatest scientist, i believe he has used science to create us and all things. it is pointless for people to say that science is "untrue" when its obviously gods tool for creation and destruction.
 
Alec: There's a huge difference between saying "Well, maybe it's all just a illusion" and saying "It's all an illusion." While I can certainly understand and agree with the first, the second just plain pisses me off, because it goes against everything science stands for, and the peoplw ho say that (including you, in your first post) are usually the ones advocating science.

As well as that, you first go rambling against people who claim to be religious and say they're wrong, and then you claim you believe everything revolves around repetition? That's just as much a faith as Christianity is.
 
bob_the_rambler said:
this is a little off topic but a few of you here seem to not believe in god because of the "shit" he lets happen, and i understand how you can believe this. one of the things i would like to point out though is this, mans grief is his own doing and as humans we have agency to create or destroy.
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Let me paint you a picture Bob:
A man has some children. He guides them, nurtures them until one day, they don't always obey him. At this point he washes his hands of them. Says "You can have free will, do as you please". The next day, he sits and watches them.
One of his children hits the other in the face, the other retaliates, kicking his aggressor in the shins. The man watches this. Watches his children, who he once professed to love, hurt each other. It is entirely within his power to stop them, but, perhaps out of spite, perhaps because of some hidden motivation we can't even guess at, he lets them destroy each other.

Would you like to think of a parent like that?
Would you like to think of your parent(s) acting like that?
I know I don't like the idea. So That is why I sometimes hope there is no God. A being that would sit by and watch His children do unspeakable things to each other is not one I would like to deal with.

(yes, I know I'm simplifying things (and only addressing the Christian god), but I don't really care - I'm not trying to create a(nother) religious flamewar, but I don't like being painted in the light Bob was trying to paint me)

as for this religious gene, i personally believe that God is the greatest scientist, i believe he has used science to create us and all things. it is pointless for people to say that science is "untrue" when its obviously gods tool for creation and destruction.
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Then why would He tell his prophets how he created the world in 7 days? And how Eve was made from Adam's rib?
Unless you are admitting the fallibility of the Bible, which is somewhat at odds with the Christian faith, as I understand it.
 
I think there's a phrase somewhere in the Bible like "For God a million years are a single day", which some people refer to if they insist on giving a somewhat reasonable explanation to the 7-day issue.
Most reasonable Christians say it's a metaphor, much like most of the Bible is, tho. I think the Bible was a good general purpose "bible" in its time and was written mostly by rather intelligent men.
It's more of a sociological and educational book than something to base a religion on IMO tho and I kind-of doubt the original authors planned the New Testament and all that focus on Sweet Jebus And The Gang back then and it got a wee bit out of hand.

But hey, I'm just trying to give reasonable explanations, what does that have to do with most people's "religion" anyway?
 
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