Israel-Palestinians situation

sunny jim

First time out of the vault
Many times I heard from people the the media over the world isn't objective... well, I wanted to see for myself.
As the members of this forum are from all over the world, and couse you guys liked fallout that means you're also smart(:D), I would like to see what's your opinion on the whole state... who's right, who's wrong, and who do you support. I shall state my opinion later...(I'm Israeli if you ask)
 
Holocaust for the first, nuclear annihilation for the second.
 
what the hell? well, if a moderator responds in this way, then i guess this is the wrong forum to post a topic like this...
 
LOL
They will exterminate themselves, it depends only by how long palestinians will resist.
Israel is enjoying the USA support, they are sending helicopters to bombard palestinians villages, but on the other hand palestinians have their own resources: they are sending often explosives trap donkeys in Israel :D
 
sunny jim said:
what the hell? well, if a moderator responds in this way, then i guess this is the wrong forum to post a topic like this...

Tsk, no sense of humor.
 
sunny jim said:
who's right,
Neither.
who's wrong,
Both. Perhaps a better question would be "Who's more wrong?"
and who do you support.
If I had to pick one, then the Palestinians, I think they have a greater claim to the region and they have suffered more at the hands of the Israelis than vice-versa, if only because of the greater resources of the Israeli Army/Government. (The support given to Israel by the US certainly does not help the situation, then again, nor does the support Hamas receives from other Islamic countries)

The thing that people sometimes forget is that not all Palestinians are in Hamas and not all Israelis support the current government.
 
Argh, I've held this discussion too many times already.

Alec can probably vouch I'm getting pretty good at it, too... :)
 
Those Israelis, no since of humor what-so-ever.

we had those debates for some time, but like in the real world, nothing is black and white, although if I would have to pick a side, I would agree with Jebus - I'll take the Palestinians, mainly because ive been there and seen the way shit happens in there.
 
Sovz said:
although if I would have to pick a side, I would agree with Jebus - I'll take the Palestinians, mainly because ive been there and seen the way shit happens in there.

See? I didn't even say who the hell's side I'm one, and ALREADY people agree with me.


I fucking rule in this discussion.
 
Sovz said:
I would agree with Jebus - I'll take the Palestinians, mainly because ive been there and seen the way shit happens in there.
Huh? Jebus didn't actually give his viewpoint
I do hope you aren't confusing me with him. :evil:

;)

It's easy to say "Israeliis have no sense of humo(u)r", but I'd imagine it's hard to look at it that way if you are actually living through it.
 
sure we have a sence of humor... but only when we know it's a joke... when i see users with the nick-names of "hitler", i'm not sure about the humor part. besides, it's not so easy for jews to joke about the holocaust...

well, i'm not surprised to see much ignorance of the situation...

to november:
you say that the situation will continue depending how long they resist... well here's a piece of information: if the situation will be the same, in about 50-100 years, the palestinian population will grow to be bigger than the israeli one... and israeli helicopters don't bomb villiges. they just don't. unless you can prove it(and you'll be wasting your time trying to...)
what they do bomb, is sometimes moving cars or buildings where wanted murderers are hiding... they sometimes bomb terrorist training grounds too, but that's more rare.

"I think they have a greater claim to the region" - what you think doesn't constitute the reality... you can't believe how way you are off... but that's because you just don't know the history, can't blame you. and do they suffer more than us? it is a proven fact that we go after wanted murderes only. we DO NOT hurt innocent people. at least not intentially, but that happens in every war-like situation. on the other hand, they send suicide bombers to kill totally innocent people(killed 6 students from the school i was in, and bombed the bus i was driving to school twice). maybe they have more casualties, but the difference is that their casualties are mostly terrorists, while ours are mostly innocent people.
when we want peace talks, and we agree a time out of fighting with them, they go on people who go to work, or people who return from a restraunt or something... how exactly can you support their side?
nobody said not all of them are terrorists! but how do you want us to protect ourselves, and not make curfues and close borders? (that's the way they "suffer", they can't go to work in the country their terrorists constantly attack)
 
Ugh. Not yet another one.

sure we have a sence of humor... but only when we know it's a joke... when i see users with the nick-names of "hitler", i'm not sure about the humor part. besides, it's not so easy for jews to joke about the holocaust...
That's Kilus. He may be rude, but it's still a joke.

you say that the situation will continue depending how long they resist... well here's a piece of information: if the situation will be the same, in about 50-100 years, the palestinian population will grow to be bigger than the israeli one... and israeli helicopters don't bomb villiges. they just don't. unless you can prove it(and you'll be wasting your time trying to...)
what they do bomb, is sometimes moving cars or buildings where wanted murderers are hiding... they sometimes bomb terrorist training grounds too, but that's more rare.
Like that rocket launcher at the guy in the wheelcair, you know. Don't pretend that the Israeli's are free from all things evil on this planet, that's just plain ignorant.

That said, what the hell is wrong with you? Why do you think it's a problem if, in 50-100 years, there will be more Palestinians than Israelis? For god's sake, man, what the hell does it matter if you've learned to co-exist peacefully? Try working towards that..

what you think doesn't constitute the reality... you can't believe how way you are off... but that's because you just don't know the history, can't blame you.
All the Israelis have to claim is an old book stating it's their home grounds, while the Palestinians have been living there for a long time. I don't agree that you have no right to live there, but the Palestinians have as much a right as you do.
As well as that, where do you come off from saying that he doesn't know his history? You could've also come up with, you know, FACTS to counter what he just said. Because you haven't done that, have you?

it is a proven fact that we go after wanted murderes only.
No, it isn't. It can't be a proven fact, because it absolutely impossible to prove. What is possible to prove is that you have gone on so-called retaliation missions. And that civilians DO get killed in those missions.
Does this make you any worse than the Palestinians? Hell no. But this also doesn't mean you're free from any guilt.

Also note that a bunch of bomber-pilots went on strike a while back to protest against the missions they were sent on. Does that sound like "we're doing nothing wrong" to you?

when we want peace talks, and we agree a time out of fighting with them, they go on people who go to work, or people who return from a restraunt or something... how exactly can you support their side?
But what can a government do when its citizens don't listen? The suicide bombers are not completely controllable like the Israeli army.
Basically, you're saying that it's okay to stop peace talks because a bunch of loonies keep on bombing. How's that for giving in to terrorism.

nobody said not all of them are terrorists! but how do you want us to protect ourselves, and not make curfues and close borders? (that's the way they "suffer", they can't go to work in the country their terrorists constantly attack)
Ugh. I've recently seen a documentary about the Israeli border guards here. I was horrified, I heard soldiers frequently say things like "Jews are the best", talk about racial prejudice, and I saw the palestinians get searched and humiliated over and over again. Is this necessary? No, it isn't. Should you be able to protect yourself? Yes. But for God's sake, at least TRY to remain friendly with the Palestinians. If you want the killing to stop, killing THEM won't help one bit.
 
allll righty then :D

Like that rocket launcher at the guy in the wheelcair, you know. Don't pretend that the Israeli's are free from all things evil on this planet, that's just plain ignorant.

That said, what the hell is wrong with you? Why do you think it's a problem if, in 50-100 years, there will be more Palestinians than Israelis? For god's sake, man, what the hell does it matter if you've learned to co-exist peacefully? Try working towards that..

you're kidding about the wheel chair guy right? do you know who that was? that's sheih yasin, the sender of endless suicide bombers, and the responsible for HUNDREDS of sevillians murdered. he was the leader of the hizballa, check out that organisation, and what it represents. this man was alive WAY much more time than he was supposed to, and thank god he's dead. if you think he's ANY better than bin laden or sadam husain, you're wrong.

about the population in 50-100 years, i was reffering to what 'november' said when he said that we'll kill them all if this status will continue.


All the Israelis have to claim is an old book stating it's their home grounds, while the Palestinians have been living there for a long time. I don't agree that you have no right to live there, but the Palestinians have as much a right as you do.
As well as that, where do you come off from saying that he doesn't know his history? You could've also come up with, you know, FACTS to counter what he just said. Because you haven't done that, have you?

sure, why don't we talk about the facts?

it all starts about 150 years ago, when the first jews started moving to israel. grounds were BOUGHT from native residents, which after a while understood they made a mistake selling the grounds, when they thought those grounds were useless, but the jewish farmers managed to furtilize them... that's where all the problems started, with a lot of bla bla bla(the whole story is quite long) which concludes in a problem of 2 sides on one territory(which included ISRAEL AND THE WHOLE OF JORDAN!!!). in about the 1930's jordan got it's independence, and deported a whole lot of "palestinians" to the israeli grounds.(the deportation was QUITE violant... that's right...) those palestinians asked for support and stuff from other countries, and because they were the majority at the time, they had an advantage with the british mandat. a bit later, the british mandat decided that he'll give 18 percent of israel(without jordan that is) to the jews, and the rest for the arabs... that was decided in the vaadat pil. the jewish population wasn't too pleased about it, but check this out! the arabs declined that offer too! (yeah, you're reading right). after that the fights between the 2 collonies were quite harsh, and after the hollocoust it was decided that the jews deserve a country, which was later expanded to become about twice as big(right now) after all the wars... they did mistakes, they paid for them. the mistakes were selling the lands and then whine about it. it all began from that.

if you still feel that the palestinians are the ones who are right, there's also the USA example... don't you feel that the native americans deserve the land? the world isn't too fair...

Quote:
it is a proven fact that we go after wanted murderes only.

No, it isn't. It can't be a proven fact, because it absolutely impossible to prove. What is possible to prove is that you have gone on so-called retaliation missions. And that civilians DO get killed in those missions.
Does this make you any worse than the Palestinians? Hell no. But this also doesn't mean you're free from any guilt.

Also note that a bunch of bomber-pilots went on strike a while back to protest against the missions they were sent on. Does that sound like "we're doing nothing wrong" to you?

you didn't read what was later said... innocent people also get killed, just like i said. you ignored it.


But what can a government do when its citizens don't listen? The suicide bombers are not completely controllable like the Israeli army.
Basically, you're saying that it's okay to stop peace talks because a bunch of loonies keep on bombing. How's that for giving in to terrorism.

WRONG.
proven that arafat gave green light many times to terrorist acts. the thing is, at the time, when there was seice fire, and the bombings continued, and when it became on a daily basis, and 20 people were killed every day(you DON'T KNOW how that's like), the goverment had to stop it... stoping the curfues and opening the borders was part of the agreement for siece fire... we couldn't continue letting the borders being open, so we had to stop the bombing---->couses the end of talks. it's not as simple as you think... right now arafat is not rellevent. there's noone to talk to, couse like you said yourself, they can't hold their terrorists, who do what they want. and the terrorists are who we are fighting...

Ugh. I've recently seen a documentary about the Israeli border guards here. I was horrified, I heard soldiers frequently say things like "Jews are the best", talk about racial prejudice, and I saw the palestinians get searched and humiliated over and over again. Is this necessary? No, it isn't. Should you be able to protect yourself? Yes. But for God's sake, at least TRY to remain friendly with the Palestinians. If you want the killing to stop, killing THEM won't help one bit.

ohhhhhh... how cute of you... try to remain friendly with them... in those documentries you watched, did they show the 5 and 10 year olds with the explosives belts? did they show the women who wore those explosives? did they show the RPG KIDS 50 years ago(kids who actually fired rpgs at tanks hoping not to be get killed couse they are kids and can't be harmed). did they show the terrorists on the streets who use kids as human shields? did they show the 10 year old girl who approached a restricted area with a bag, to be a diversion for terrorists?
yeah, the checks are necessary! and how easy it is to "remain friendly with them"... life is so simple, isn't it?
 
you're kidding about the wheel chair guy right? do you know who that was? that's sheih yasin, the sender of endless suicide bombers, and the responsible for HUNDREDS of sevillians murdered. he was the leader of the hizballa, check out that organisation, and what it represents. this man was alive WAY much more time than he was supposed to, and thank god he's dead. if you think he's ANY better than bin laden or sadam husain, you're wrong.
Nooooooo sense of humor. None whatsoever.

sure, why don't we talk about the facts?
Yes, why don't we?

it all starts about 150 years ago, when the first jews started moving to israel. grounds were BOUGHT from native residents, which after a while understood they made a mistake selling the grounds, when they thought those grounds were useless, but the jewish farmers managed to furtilize them... that's where all the problems started, with a lot of bla bla bla(the whole story is quite long) which concludes in a problem of 2 sides on one territory(which included ISRAEL AND THE WHOLE OF JORDAN!!!). in about the 1930's jordan got it's independence, and deported a whole lot of "palestinians" to the israeli grounds.(the deportation was QUITE violant... that's right...) those palestinians asked for support and stuff from other countries, and because they were the majority at the time, they had an advantage with the british mandat. a bit later, the british mandat decided that he'll give 18 percent of israel(without jordan that is) to the jews, and the rest for the arabs... that was decided in the vaadat pil. the jewish population wasn't too pleased about it, but check this out! the arabs declined that offer too! (yeah, you're reading right). after that the fights between the 2 collonies were quite harsh, and after the hollocoust it was decided that the jews deserve a country, which was later expanded to become about twice as big(right now) after all the wars... they did mistakes, they paid for them. the mistakes were selling the lands and then whine about it. it all began from that.

if you still feel that the palestinians are the ones who are right, there's also the USA example... don't you feel that the native americans deserve the land? the world isn't too fair...
I said that:
1) The Israelis have a right to live there and
2) The palestinians do too, and probably more so, because you came in large numbers after the war, and they were already there before that.

you didn't read what was later said... innocent people also get killed, just like i said. you ignored it.
No, I didn't.

RIGHT.
proven that arafat gave green light many times to terrorist acts. the thing is, at the time, when there was seice fire, and the bombings continued, and when it became on a daily basis, and 20 people were killed every day(you DON'T KNOW how that's like), the goverment had to stop it... stoping the curfues and opening the borders was part of the agreement for siece fire... we couldn't continue letting the borders being open, so we had to stop the bombing---->couses the end of talks. it's not as simple as you think... right now arafat is not rellevent. there's noone to talk to, couse like you said yourself, they can't hold their terrorists, who do what they want. and the terrorists are who we are fighting...
*sigh*
Was I talking about years ago? Why, no. Did I ever say Arafat couldn't stop them? Why, no. Did I ever speak about Arafat? Why, no!
Now, tell me, why the hell aren't there peace talks between your governments now? Why isn't the Israeli government helping the Palestinians (the ones not bombing you) build houses, make a living and get jobs.

ohhhhhh... how cute of you... try to remain friendly with them... in those documentries you watched, did they show the 5 and 10 year olds with the explosives belts?
Yes.
did they show the women who wore those explosives?
Yes.
did they show the RPG KIDS 50 years ago(kids who actually fired rpgs at tanks hoping not to be get killed couse they are kids and can't be harmed).
No.
did they show the terrorists on the streets who use kids as human shields?
Yes.
did they show the 10 year old girl who approached a restricted area with a bag, to be a diversion for terrorists?
yes.
Does that answer your questions?

yeah, the checks are necessary!
That's what I said. Is it necessary for them to be so violent, discriminatory and degragding? No!
and how easy it is to "remain friendly with them"... life is so simple, isn't it?
It would be, if people like you and the palestinian terrorists wouldn't constantly complicate it.

I'm not the Palestinian supporting prejudiced blind-man you seek, pal. But I'm not going to support a policy that is bent on isolation instead of peace.
 
you say the word "peace", but peace with who exactly? with the terrorists? the only peace they are after is the peace of wiping us off the face of the earth.
and the terrorists are the only ones we're in conflict with! the problem is, those terrorists are not in a known spot. they are hiding inside homes and buildings. the same homes and buildings you ask of israel to build for them... am i getting through here?
who exactly can we make peace with?! there will always be terror until one of the two happens. the terrorists will kill all of us, or we kill all the terrorists. to fight the terrorists, we have to isolate them...
supposedly we decide to move all our forces from their borders, and "free them", legs and arms will be flying all over israel.

you said "we came in large numbers after the war", but we came to the lands given to us! what's wrong with that!

the thing is, that the terrorists don't seek co-existance, and the terrorists can't be held by the palastinian leadership. what does that mean? that the palastenian leadership, and peace talks with them are irrelevent, as long as the terror which is in the core of all their population, exists.

you said "if people like you"... there's people like me(which i believe are quite rational people, if you followed what i said so far) just because there's those terrorists, and n-o-t the opposite. if there wern't people like me, people who wish to defend themeselves, there would be nothing to defend by now.
 
Omg Sander shut the hell up already, you cant beat this guy, hes right.
And I was about to comment sheih yasinas you so nicely put him the weelchairguy. He fucking deserved to die a houndred times over for what that fuck did.

He was caught once but was relesed for the safe return of 2 Israeli agents. As soon as he was relesed the biggest fucking wave of suicide bombings began.

Sunny Jim, finally a guy whos on my side. Welcome :)
 
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