It's again that time of the year ... or Muslim bashing!

[Crni Vuk]

Then what do you want to achieve by highlighting the 'criminal activity' of immigrants? Or with questions like
Native Germans, or imported ones? This doesn't look as a bunch of Prussians to me:

Because let us assume for a moment children of turkish immigrants would comitt more crimes than germans. What would you propose we should do?

I also don't understand what you're trying to highlight with a link to a meaningless 'rape-save-pants' in a topic about well ... bashing Muslims ... isn't that kinda telling?

 

[valcik]

Okay, here we go.. REEEEEEEE!!1

Then what do you want to achieve by highlighting the 'criminal activity' of immigrants?

It's only fair to properly acknowledge who is responsible for raised criminal activity. According to you, all Germans are equally responsible, while I can clearly see in linked article that people with immigrant background, people from moslem countries to be specific, commited majority of these sexual crimes. What did you assume I'm trying to achieve actually? Let me know, I'm genuinely interested in your prejudice driven conclusions and strawmans.

Or with questions like
Native Germans, or imported ones? This doesn't look as a bunch of Prussians to me:

See above. Also this question was asked in order to make your previous incorrect assumption more clear. Try discussing more pragmatically, be focused on rebutting linked informations instead of resorting to clueless assumptions and blind blaming, will you? I know your head is full of literal holocaust and you see millions of dead Jews everywhere, so you don't have to repeat this bullshit in every motherfucking NMA thread. Thanks.

Okay, back to the point - since our country is under heavy pressure by German (and European) foreign policy, forcing us to accept huge amount of these people, I'm trying to understand what's going on in regions they've been offered asylum already. Is this clear enough for you? Do you understand, or not?

Because let us assume for a moment children of turkish immigrants would comitt more crimes than germans. What would you propose we should do?

Prosecute them, punish them according to local law just as you punish any person without immigrant background. What did you assume I would propose instead? Why we need assume something actually? Do you really have to assume something in every second of your life? Are you actually incarnated assumption walking on two legs or what?

I also don't understand what you're trying to highlight with a link to a meaningless 'rape-save-pants' in a topic about well ... bashing Muslims ... isn't that kinda telling?

Yes, it's telling that accordingly to the previously linked webpage there's suddenly a lot of sexual crimes commited in January, 2017 by people with immigrant background in Germany. According to you it's perfectly normal situation, I see. According to me, it's direct result of importing people en masse from regions supporting and appreciating rape culture for millenia.

Now what, are you ready to assume another literal holocaust and another millions of poor souls killed due to my post?

 

[Crni Vuk]

It's only fair to properly acknowledge who is responsible for raised criminal activity. According to you, all Germans are equally responsible, while I can clearly see in linked article that people with immigrant background, people from moslem countries to be specific, commited majority of these sexual crimes. What did you assume I'm trying to achieve actually? Let me know, I'm genuinely interested in your prejudice driven conclusions and strawmans.

Muslims are the problem. Let us not step dance around those statistics anymore, you believe in that article, I say it's not reliable. - As far as I know the German government has never released any official information on crimes comitted specifically by 'German' citizens which are the children of immigrants while the surveys they did with refugees say they do not comitt more crimes than German citizens.

But let us assume you're right. So what should we do with the muslim children from German immigrants now?

Prosecute them, punish them according to local law just as you punish any person without immigrant background. What did you assume I would propose instead? Why we need assume something actually? Do you really have to assume something in every second of your life? Are you actually incarnated assumption walking on two legs or what?

Then why do we have to actually make a difference between second generation immigrants and german citizen?

 

[valcik]

You can't do much with them, can you? Treat them fairly and accordingly to your law. The real question is whether you'll let another million in or not. Yep, the inhuman thing and literal holocaust - closed borders, or not.

Then why do we have to actually make a difference between second generation immigrants and german citizen?

I thought it's obvious - second generation immigrant raised in moslem family will be most likely following the same religious and cultural lines his parents and their predecessors followed. Are second generations immigrants less religious? Are they rejecting religion? Are they less moslem than their parents? I think not, a lot of radical fighters in former Al-Nusra and all across the middle east are actually second/third generation moslem immigrant kids from Europe.

 

[Crni Vuk]

And that's why your're a bigot for me.

You write millions of people off, because a certain percentage might be 'criminals'. Well done *claps*. Hence why I say, easy but wrong solutions for a much more complex and broader problem.

It always comes down to 'Close border to YXZ and it will solve the problem'!

Yes, it's telling that accordingly to the previously linked webpage there's suddenly a lot of sexual crimes commited in January, 2017 by people with immigrant background in Germany. According to you it's perfectly normal situation, I see. According to me, it's direct result of importing people en masse from regions supporting and appreciating rape culture for millenia.

Now what, are you ready to assume another literal holocaust and another millions of poor souls killed due to my post?

No, that's not what I am saying. What I am saying is that we have no clue how reliable that is, unless yo uhave some official statistic and actually did some 'cleaning' in the statistic. Like does it actually tell you if those crimes are solved ones, or just allegations, who has collected them? I mean if there are no official numbers released, from where do they have them? What kind of analysis can be done with it? Those are all just collected cases and I have no clue which one of those are actuall crimes and which one could be false - and yes, they do happen.
There is a reason why the state doesn't release EVERY case in a crime statistic, but actually collects them all at the end of the year to see if you have an actuall rise in sexual crimes or not.

 

[valcik]

Fuck off with your false moralism, will you?

You write millions of people off, because a certain percentage might be 'criminals'.

And you write tens of millions people off. Yes, your own goverment realized that open borders and uncontrolled migration is not the answer, so they locked the gate already. Schengen area is not open anymore. No more free invitations for hundreds of thousands refugees from frau Merkel this year, deportations instead, haven't you noticed? You can let million or two in until your social system and available police/teacher/medics manpower reach their limits and another tens of millions refugees are still waiting all across the globe - Egypt, Jordan, Lebanon, whole middle east, Africa.. What would you propose to do with them, huh? Instead of providing half-arsed solutions and endangering your own safety, we need to teach these people to be more responsible. FFS India accepted strict birth control rules already, why Africa or middle east cannot do the same before is too late? Are you personaly responsible for every stupid fucker on this planet who can't keep his schlong in his pants so he breeds 20 children he cannot feed, or what? Where's your awesome solution? Borders wild open, huh?

What I am saying is that we have no clue how reliable that is, unless yo uhave some official statistic and actually did some 'cleaning' in the statistic.

According to the high profile police officer in linked article, a huge chunks of data from whole regions sharing big amounts of immigrants are missing in the annual statistic. Your source is actually as unreliable as any other, dude.

 

[Crni Vuk]

Yep. Look at some nations in Africa and the middle east, which took more refugees than anyone else in Europe, and they still do it, like Jordan, with a population of howm any? 6 million? And they took more than 1 million refugees alone. And Europe is 'Colapsing' with the one they got, while we have a population nearly 300 million. Let me be 'racist' for a minute. You east europeans, I am sick of it and your right wing rhetoric, you constantly talk about immigration and the issue with refugees, but the moment it's about money, you do nothing but whining. Give me a brake. You know, why doesn't your government return all the money they received from the EU and we take all the refugees from you. Those 10 000 that you took in or something like that.

You seen the millions of people in Spain that marched for refugees? Imagine that. They have their own issues, and they still want to help. Have you forgoten how life was under Soviet regime already? When 10 000 of east europeans decided to leave for the glorious west? How easily we forget what life is under TRUE hardship.

But yes, let us continue with Dublin I and II, let Greece, Spain, Hungary, and the other border states deal with the issue. Who cares? Right. It's just human trash.

Germany managed to help A LOT MORE people, RIGHT after ww2 ... but all of Europe can't help those people now. The richest nations on earth ... it's trully pathetic. What do you fear those people could take from you? Those few subsidies you get? Don't worry, no one is sending 1 million syrians in your little hell hole. I definetly wouldn't

We are throwing 200 milion each year around, just so that the European Parliament can move from Brussel to Straßburg for a couple of days. And we don't have the resources and money to help people ... what a joke. Please. Not even you believe that for a second when you consider such shit like the Hyporealestate and how much money was thrown at banks just to bail them out.

According to the high profile police officer in linked article, a huge chunks of data from whole regions sharing big amounts of immigrants are missing in the annual statistic. Your source is actually as unreliable as any other, dude.

Because collecting cases where you don't even know if they have been actually solved or not, is much better, of course. It fitts your narrative of muslims runing around and raping people. So it must be alright. But if it turns out in a couple of months that some of those cases are not true, or that they got the wrong person or that they could never find out who it was, will you turn around and acknowledge that it was lower than what the 'statistic' said here? I guess not. Because you're not concerned with accurate nubmers, but to find something that confirms your opinion of raping muslims.

So far, that's just a statement on a website, of which no one of us has a chance to check if it's true or not. Just recently they found ot that a high ranking police officer received double payment for decades, while not being in active duty and he used constantly to 'talk' about criminal immigrants and the risks of refugees which got him a lot of applause from the right wing. Now they would ratner want to forget him, due to his 'own' activites for receiving questionable amounts of money for jobs he wasn't doing anymore. In other words. Corruption. If that is the kind of role model we're listening to these days ...

I have no reason, to doubt the 'official' data from the government. And maybe there was a spike in sexual assaults in Januray. I have no clue or way to check that, unless some official data has been realised, but I would rather not want to jump to conclussions just yet - particularly when you consider how often people claim that they got raped by immigrants and 'refugees', and it turns out that it's wrong. Those cases definetly exist, but I am sure you will simply 'dismiss' them.

 

[valcik]

Give me a brake. You know, why doesn't your government return all the money they received from the EU and we take all the refugees from you. Those 10 000 that you took in or something like that.

You still don't understand how restructural funds works, I see. You know what? Fuck these funds, take them away right now and rest assured I won't say a word against it. We've had our half a million gypsies and tens of thousands refugees/minorities here long before Slovakia became EU member, so you're clueless deluded ignoramus driven by prejudices. Proved repeatedly.

You seen the millions of people in Spain that marched for refugees? Imagine that. They have their own issues, and they still want to help.

The same sort of people as you. Regressive leftist living from social benefits or working for minimal wage, which means their network contribution in form of taxes is too low to repay their own education or medical care - suckling on teets of more successful countrymen and lobbying for crazy ideas how to spend other folks' money. These socialists, I swear man..

Have you forgoten how life was under Soviet regime already? When 10 000 of east europeans decided to leave for the glorious west? How easily we forget what life is under TRUE hardship.

No, I haven't, lived through it. Let me ask though, what would you do if Putin would have decided to move his tanks toward Berlin tommorow? Would you grab a gun and fight for your new fatherland, or would you go the good old trololo way - packing your things up and running to the nearest country with strong enough economy as fast as you can? Hm?

Don't worry, no one is sending 1 million syrians in your little hell hole.

Slovakia is not a hell hole, you are welcome to come by and check out anytime. Also I'm well aware that these poor moslems dying from wars and stuff are not eager to end here, welfare is too low and no mosques at all..

But if it turns out in a couple of months that some of those cases are not true, or that they got the wrong person or that they could never find out who it was, will you turn around and acknowledge that it was lower than what the 'statistic' said here? I guess not.

You guess, you assume.. Bile and prejudices. If any case from these dozens would turn out to be false or wrong, I'd gladly acknowledge it.

Just recently they found ot that a high ranking police officer received double payment for decades, while not being in active duty and he used constantly to 'talk' about criminal immigrants and the risks of refugees which got him a lot of applause from the right wing.

This goes both ways, just recently "they" found that hundreds of immigrants are fraudsters actually, repeatedly asking for social benefits in various cities with false identities. They used constantly "talk" about war, dangers, and poverty, which got them a lot of applause from the regressive leftists. You see? What's your point again?
http://www.dw.com/en/braunschweig-n...of-welfare-fraud-by-asylum-seekers/a-36969990

I have no reason, to doubt the 'official' data from the government.

Well I do. Official data being incomplete or inaccurate is nothing new.

 

[Mr Fish]

New meme's have arrived.

Seriously though, new attack by some muslim guy happened in London:

Spoiler

 

[Buxbaum666]

And you write tens of millions people off. Yes, your own goverment realized that open borders and uncontrolled migration is not the answer, so they locked the gate already. Schengen area is not open anymore. No more free invitations for hundreds of thousands refugees from frau Merkel this year, deportations instead, haven't you noticed? You can let million or two in until your social system and available police/teacher/medics manpower reach their limits and another tens of millions refugees are still waiting all across the globe - Egypt, Jordan, Lebanon, whole middle east, Africa.. What would you propose to do with them, huh? Instead of providing half-arsed solutions and endangering your own safety, we need to teach these people to be more responsible. FFS India accepted strict birth control rules already, why Africa or middle east cannot do the same before is too late? Are you personaly responsible for every stupid fucker on this planet who can't keep his schlong in his pants so he breeds 20 children he cannot feed, or what? Where's your awesome solution? Borders wild open, huh?

You're basically saying the refugee crisis is caused by sex-crazed foreigners who can't control themselves and flood their countries with children? Congratulations, that is the most ignorant bigoted bullshit I've read in quite a while. Or, in your own words,

you're clueless deluded ignoramus driven by prejudices.

According to the high profile police officer in linked article, a huge chunks of data from whole regions sharing big amounts of immigrants are missing in the annual statistic. Your source is actually as unreliable as any other, dude.

First off, André Schulz is not an active police officer, he's head of the BDK, a police union. He's also known for taking outragous positions (he wants seperate criminal laws for senior citicens because they're allegedly overrepresented in property crimes) and is currently under investigation because he was paid wages for years of work he didn't do.
Then again, I read the source that gatestone institute linked and he didn't even say that. There's no mention of immigrant crime being suppressed. They cite this article and claim that:
"The actual number of migrant-related sex crimes in Germany is at least two or three times higher than the official number. Only 10% of the sex crimes committed in Germany appear in the official statistics."
The first part is a flat-out lie because the linked article says no such thing, nowhere. The second part is basically true; not because the numbers are suppressed but because there's always a dark figure of crime and it is usually high with sex crimes. Although, by definition, the real figures are literally unknown and 90% is an educated guess at best. Crime statistics can't contain crimes that are never reported, which is neither new nor related to immigration in any way.

 

[valcik]

You're basically saying the refugee crisis is caused by sex-crazed foreigners who can't control themselves and flood their countries with children?

Nope, that's just your strawman. My point is that strict birth control in overpopulated African countries suffering with food shortages would be a good start how to prevent future mass migration.

The second part is basically true; not because the numbers are suppressed but because there's always a dark figure of crime and it is usually high with sex crimes. Although, by definition, the real figures are literally unknown and 90% is an educated guess at best. Crime statistics can't contain crimes that are never reported, which is neither new nor related to immigration in any way.

Fine, we can both agree on this. Crni Vuk obsessed with scientific data would be much harder nut to crack though.

edit:

Then again, I read the source that gatestone institute linked and he didn't even say that. There's no mention of immigrant crime being suppressed.

I was referring to this:
https://www.gatestoneinstitute.org/9934/germany-rape-january

In addition, the BKA data includes only crimes that have been solved (aufgeklärten Straftaten). According to police statistics, on average only around half of all crimes committed in Germany in any given year are solved (Aufklärungsquote).

Moreover, BKA crime statistics do not include data from North Rhine-Westphalia, the most populous state in Germany and the one with the largest number of migrants, or from Hamburg, the second-largest city in the country.

Is this a lie? Do unsolved reported crimes appear in annual statistics or not?

 

[Crni Vuk]

Why are YOU so hung up on literaly 'unsolved' crimes? You do know that many unsolved crimes well, have the problem to even make clear who the suspect was.

It's like if I would come up with the idea that every white person who raped a female, has to be a German, even though I was never able to solve the case and actually find the perpetrator.

Fine, we can both agree on this. Crni Vuk obsessed with scientific data would be much harder nut to crack though.

Yes, because I don't want to cite some strange link which was now debunked by buxie as unreliable, just because it fits my narrative of "rape-fugees" or "masses of sex-offenders" as immigrants. All I was saying is, that I questioned the reliability of what they said in the link. And it turns out ... it was very unreliable.

When you're looking for solutions to a problem, than you need reliable data, or you will end up with something like racial profiling - like in cologne, that helps no one, costs a fuck ton of money and hits the wrong people.

 

[valcik]

You haven't answered a single question from my last post adressed to you, why not? Also, quote me where I marked migrants as "masses of sex-offenders", you tit. That's just a strawman provided by Bux, what I wrote is that Germany has imported people en masse from regions where rape culture is approved and tolerated for millenia, you debunker.

 

[Crni Vuk]

Beacuse some of those questions are not directly related to this topic - like my current job situation, but if you want to know it I am currently working as day care worker in a school which is having a drug problem and I am working in particular with abused children and children displaying behavioral problems.

And to your other question, the 'left' has many morons and very ville people in their ranks of which I often try to opose in discussions, since 'bashing the skulls of nazis' is not a viable solution for me.

But, I am rather a 'leftist' with some, if you want very naive, view about the world, immigrants, refugees you name it, than a bigot.

 

[valcik]

I never asked you about your job, since you've mentioned it couple of times. This is insane, one fucking strawman after another!

edit:

But, I am rather a 'leftist' with some, if you want very naive, view about the world, immigrants, refugees you name it, than a bigot.

Nope. You are regressive leftist driven by prejudices and mangled by politically correct propaganda. Haven't you tried to paint Slovakia as a fascist state based on your fabricated "racial terrorist attack commited on poor gypsies" recently? Just face it, you're doing the same you blame alt-right Trump voters to do - spewing bullshit completely made up.

 

[Crni Vuk]

Says the one who thinks about millions of people as sex offenders and criminals and breaking it down to just 'religion'.

You know, I actually disslike you a lot more than Vergil. Vergil was a strange individual, but he was rather honest and upfront about his views. And I actually thought that was kinda 'clear'. But you? You're an opportunist. You're neither right nor left or anything, but that is not even the real problem here. You most probably wouldn't kill people. But you wouldn't mind if others do it. 'Gyspis', muslims, syrians, doesn't matter, Valkcik doesn't want them around him. If some of them die? Well, they most probably deserved it, they have been leeches of the Slovakian wel fare or if they are muslims than they don't belong into Slovakia anyway so who cares? they kinda had it comming anyway, right? Those fuckers and loosers should have staid at home, fighting for someting and taking up arms against ISIS or so. You're not the kind of guy who throws stones, you're the guy who cheers at those that do.
You're the worst kind of people in my opinion, because you 'silently' support that shit that right wingers propose. You would never get your hands dirty. But you applaud fences and organisations like Frontex. You're the kind of 'I am no racist, but (insert racist and bigoted stuff)' kind of guy. And I personaly find that disgusting.

Is that strawman enough for you?

 

[valcik]

Says the one who thinks about millions of people as sex offenders and criminals and breaking it down to just 'religion'.

Another strawman, kiddo. Quote me.

You know, I actually disslike you a lot more than Vergil.

So this is personal matter, huh? That's why you're pilling up these walls of text full of shit - because you hate me? Okay then, carry on.

Is that strawman enough for you?

Yes, one of your best. These butthurted amateurish internet wannabe psychologists are most amusing.

 

[Crni Vuk]

Well, you always post after me, so it must trigger something after all.
/totally not a made you post post.

 

[valcik]

No, you just got used to the fact that people often just gave up in front of your walls of text full of bullshit, and I think that's just not right. This is not The Order, so I'm not going to tap you on your back in order to make you feel comfortable or not to feel like a laughing stock, not my boy.

 

[Hassknecht]

However, sexual assault or even rape isn't THAT uncommon on large festivals as it might seem (and I am pretty confident that is not only true for Germany), even without the 'immigrants'. No one's giving a flying fuck what happens each year at the Oktoberfest, some of the largest festival of the year, and the fact that it sees a relatively huge amount of sexual assault among many other crimes, of which some are more serious than others.

Actually, aren't the numbers quite low for such a huge event? I mean, sure, Anne Wizorek and the likes like to compare that New Year's Eve in Cologne to the Oktoberfest, but the difference is HUGE. Two years ago there were about 20 reports of sexual assault for the entire Oktoberfest, which given the amount of alcohol and mass of people over a week is not too bad. Rape cases (actually reported cases, not some made-up dark number with no basis whatsoever) are between zero and ten, usually. Often "only" attempted. Which, again, is not too bad for a festival with almost six million visitors over two weeks.

Anyway, I think we can cut down on the ad-homineming a bit, alright?