J.E. Sawyer and dialogue

[Brother None]

Earlier on, J.E. Sawyer twittered this tidbit, which is a nice launch-off point for debate.<blockquote>it is fine to have a formulaic dialogue tree structure as long as the content is not formulaic. that's my opinion, anyway.</blockquote>True? False? Anyway, more musings on dialogue through Formspring, on minor NPC dialogue.<blockquote>Do you have any particular approaches to NPC dialogue/chatter to help with immersivity and without them coming off as useless bots, taking up space, and never adding much lore or relevant information?

I am a believer in what Obsidian calls "barkstrings". Generic, rank-and-file characters in the world typically do not have full dialogue trees. Instead, they have a large list of reactive one-off lines that they will say either in passing or when you interact with them. As long as barkstrings react to things in a meaningful fashion, it's usually more satisfying than drilling generic characters for generic information through a dialogue tree.

Background characters should also be engaged in meaningful action. A world where people endlessly, randomly mill about feels like a world without purpose. Communities should have a focus and characters within communities should have roles that they fill.</blockquote>

 

[Lexx]

Dunno about the first, but the second is true. It's not needed to write 100 10pages dialogues for generic npcs in some town. Instead, you can spare the time and write some lines of random text, which changes, based on actions the player has done.

Example: San Francisco, Fallout 2. If you kill the Hubos, everyone in chinatown will react on it. This gives the feeling of a world that reacts on your actions, without the developers having to write a shitload of epic dialogues about it.

 

[Madbringer]

Dunno about the first, but the second is true. It's not needed to write 100 10pages dialogues for generic npcs in some town. Instead, you can spare the time and write some lines of random text, which changes, based on actions the player has done.

Aye. TES games spring to mind, with the few bits of unique info spread among the various NPC's being buried under useless, repetitive, stock filler banter.

I also agree on the first point. In RPG's, it's the content, not the presentation, that matters.

 

[UncannyGarlic]

I'm totally with him on how to deal with generic NPCs, dialogue trees are just horrible with them. As for the first point, I'd agree that the content is more important than the presentation but I don't think that you want to completely ignore the structure as it is the gameplay part of dialogue.

 

[Wretched Flamingo]

::sighs:: Wonder what's next...

 

[maximaz]

Man, couldn't agree more on the generic NPC point. It saves player time and effort of clicking on an NPC, scanning through generic responses, whispering a curse word and leaving the conversation. I'd rather know immediately when an NPC has nothing interesting to say.

I just hope the voice actors doing those one-liners are somewhat decent.

 

[Lexx]

I just hope that these one-liners in New Vegas will not open up the dialog interface. This is what bugged me a lot in Fallout 3. Sometimes (heh), you talk to some NPC and there is just one option... "end"... This shit is annoying and wasting some seconds. Could be the explanation, why some people say, that they played Fallout 3 already 100+ hours tho'.

 

[UncannyGarlic]

It sounds like he's talking about something more like Dragon Age (from what I've seen of it) or Fallout (think the children and stuff). Of course we'll see how much of that gets into New Vegas, generic NPCs are one of my biggest complaints in RPGs. I'm honestly fine with not being able to talk to generic NPCs and only being able to eavesdrop on random crap they have to say, which would be relevant to the plot or subplots.

 

[Crni Vuk]

I just hope the voice actors doing those one-liners are somewhat decent.

Wasnt it mentioned somewehre they would (sadly) use Bethesdas voice actors ?

 

[el_jefe_of_ny]

The voice actors were fairly terrible. The ghoul voice I liked.... but they had like one female one male.... that made it BORING.

I loved Moira. See, you guys are missing out on some NYCity/Brooklyn culture. IT's a bit of joke mixed in there with her. I think she did a great job. People were annoyed by her... no F***IN' DUH! That was the point!

anyways I liked her acting. the father voice was one of the WORAST acting jobs possible. I heard it was Liam Nieson, which, er, um I duno if he ever bothered to practice or research his part. He might have done it cold, really, many hollywood actors dont prepare and just go line by line. I doubt this was big on his list also.

 

[CloudlessDruid]

I beat Fallout 3 one year ago, and I don't recall ANY voice acting that was remarkable to me except for Moira, mostly because she was the most annoying. If that was the point, they may fell successful.

 

[Enclave Patrol]

I beat Fallout 3 one year ago, and I don't recall ANY voice acting that was remarkable to me except for Moira, mostly because she was the most annoying. If that was the point, they may fell successful.

President Eden was fine in my opinion, most of rest were just meh and few were honestly begging for crowbar in face.

I don't like too much dialogue from commoner NPC's, but system where you could get some information and immersion creating stories from them. Those dialogue trees would be randomly triggered when talking to commoners, basically with 5% change that they just don't say something like "bug off" or "oh, lovely weather today". Both oneliners and real dialogues sould be affected by characters reputation, done quests and skills/attributes.

Example: 5 generic and 2 attribute triggered dialogue trees for newly arrived character with no local stuff done. 4 more would be unlocked when some of local quests would be completed, those would have different 3 sets based on quest outcomes and reputation. Another small set would be unlocked when local quests are all done.

Basically same as in original Fallouts only with more content triggered randomly.

 

[Khan FurSainty]

the father voice was one of the WORAST acting jobs possible. I heard it was Liam Nieson, which, er, um I duno if he ever bothered to practice or research his part. He might have done it cold, really, many hollywood actors dont prepare and just go line by line. I doubt this was big on his list also.

If you think about it, the character himself was an asshole. Leaving you alone, thinking only for himself, just sitting there, while Butch beats the crap out of you. Yeah, and it is assumed you still care for him. Not only the voice acting, the characters were horrible too.

 

[frosty_theaussie]

People don't seem to enjoy engaging with stock NPCs through dialogue trees, how about a dialogue shrub? A dialogue hydrangea-in-a-vase in the right spot will do wonders for your feng shui.

 

[Tremer]

the father voice was one of the WORAST acting jobs possible. I heard it was Liam Nieson, which, er, um I duno if he ever bothered to practice or research his part. He might have done it cold, really, many hollywood actors dont prepare and just go line by line. I doubt this was big on his list also.

If you think about it, the character himself was an asshole. Leaving you alone, thinking only for himself, just sitting there, while Butch beats the crap out of you. Yeah, and it is assumed you still care for him. Not only the voice acting, the characters were horrible too.

i was smiling when he died

 

[Stanislao Moulinsky]

I just hope that these one-liners in New Vegas will not open up the dialog interface. This is what bugged me a lot in Fallout 3. Sometimes (heh), you talk to some NPC and there is just one option... "end"...

Which is weird because there are a lot of "useless" NPCs that just say random lines without opening the dialogue interface. Like, for example, most Megaton settlers.

 

[Lexx]

I can remember some that opened the interface, but just got one "bye" line or so.

 

[Madbringer]

I can remember some that opened the interface, but just got one "bye" line or so.

Yeah, that's pretty retarded.

Then again, i seem to recall similar occurrences in both the original Fallouts as well.

Developer laziness knows no bounds!

 

[K.C. Cool]

Some times when the minor NPC's change their "barkstrings" I tend to find myself doing socially unnatural things in the game, such as going up to every minor NPC in the area and just mashing the interact key until they have nothing new to say, and then doing it to each NPC in the area to see if I missed anything. Game developers also tend use the idea of "reuse the same phrase" with these different NPC's, even if they have different voices. ("You're the hero of Kvatch!") But the reasons are obvious: It saves time and resources.

I guess when I play games I tend to unconsciously try and get as much content as I can through the first play though, so due to that drive, it some times breaks immersion when I use minor NPCs as information kiosks. I think it would be nice if the game surprised and reminded me that I'm in a "living breathing world" by, say, the NPC telling me to stop asking the same question over and over again. (there are examples already, I know) Though, I'd like to see it go a step further, such as the NPC gets angry and stops talking to me. I know the recent trend in video games is "Lets give players a second chance... ALL THE TIME!" (example: Shooting some one in the face in FO3, leaving for a few minutes, and returning to the same NPC that is now pleased as punch) but I think consequence will pull me back into the game, it'll show my choices have meaning even on a small scale such as that.

 

[TychoXI]

The voice actors were fairly terrible. The ghoul voice I liked.... but they had like one female one male.... that made it BORING.

I loved Moira. See, you guys are missing out on some NYCity/Brooklyn culture. IT's a bit of joke mixed in there with her. I think she did a great job. People were annoyed by her... no F***IN' DUH! That was the point!

anyways I liked her acting. the father voice was one of the WORAST acting jobs possible. I heard it was Liam Nieson, which, er, um I duno if he ever bothered to practice or research his part. He might have done it cold, really, many hollywood actors dont prepare and just go line by line. I doubt this was big on his list also.

I can't but fully agree with you, man, both on Moira and Father. Neeson gave the most monotonous and emotionless voice acting he could (even when this was the Nth time he did his father/mentor character) and he was supposed to be your emotional anchor and crux of the storyline (Of course the script didn't help much: "oh son, hey... erm, good to be out of that simulation. Oh well, off I go again! See ya." I mean, hello? You abandoned me for no reason nor explanation, leaving me at the mercy of the overseer's gestapo, forcing me to comb the damn wasteland without training nor survival skills, having to kill my way through hordes of orcs and NPCs asking to the four winds about a "middle aged guy" and all you give me is an emotionless farewell!!? Where's my joyous reunion?? My explanation for the shit? My emotional reward??!!???!!!111121321eq213!11221!"!)

I would say only 3-dog (whoever voiced him) and Mr. McDowell gave neat renditions.

A world where people endlessly, randomly mill about feels like a world without purpose. Communities should have a focus and characters within communities should have roles that they fill.

If that ain't a jab at Bethesda's "radiant" AI and dialogs, I dunno what is.