JE Sawyer on guns & gender
- Thread starter Sam Ecorners
- Start date
I am glad that skills got not only merged and (eventualy I dont know it) removed but also some new skills will appear. Like gambling. I hope that will be true for future games. Dont want that Fallout 5 will be to Fallout 1 what Oblivion is to the first Elderscrols where half of the skills are missing compare the first game with Oblivion, you will see it. Many weapons and skills are missing for "simplfication". I am not a enemy of removing certain parts of a game that either make no sense ore never have been used. But if games never ad anything to it with more and more sequels it becomes less and less till you have some adventure game ~ like Oblivion. Yes I love that game a lot ...
TheGM
The voice of reason
.Pixote. said:
And for all the awesomeness of the Bozar.....It was allot easier to get bye with the GAUSS RIFLE!!!*dun dun duuuuuun* Small Guns was just the beter stat.
iridium_ionizer
Mildly Dipped
In most of my Fallout 1 and 2 playthroughs, I usually don't tag Small Guns because I can raise it high enough to be competent (about 90%) with Guns & Bullets magazines. Then, to get it to around 120% (which solves most mid-game combat situations) I just use regular skill points (after using all the magazines available / needed). This makes the early game much more difficult, but it also means that I can tag Big Guns or Energy Weapons at the start and quickly raise my skill in that category once I get those weapons.
Stereotypical Villain
First time out of the vault
On the subject of merging Science and Repair:
I'd like to see advanced weapons use the Science skill when determining how much damage you're able to repair. Why? Because Repair, in my opinion, involves low-tech mechanics usually found in common weapons while energy weapons are far more advanced.
Well... Those are my two bottle caps at any rate.
I'd like to see advanced weapons use the Science skill when determining how much damage you're able to repair. Why? Because Repair, in my opinion, involves low-tech mechanics usually found in common weapons while energy weapons are far more advanced.
Well... Those are my two bottle caps at any rate.
TheGM
The voice of reason
flushfire said:
Yes it is.
And what does your custom self imposed stat restriction playthrough have to with better stat allocation? Your personal feeling on the matter have no bering on the facts. Small Guns was a better stat, 85.7% of all guns where small guns, and the Gauss Rifle was the King of the gun Mountain looking down on all other Guns.
flushfire said:
Yes, but AFAIR Bozar often does little damage in non-critical hits to heavily-armed enemies, while gauss always does about 20 points. It also uses A LOT less ammo, which doesn't require you to carry around 50000 pieces of ammo with you.
MKSaibot
It Wandered In From the Wastes
In Fallout 2 the vindicator and Bozar were insane, big gun's were plenty worth tagging if you were wanting to use them.
Nope. Bozar is stronger that Gauss Rifle.
Bozar damage: 25-35, burst rounds: 15, AP requirement: 6;
Bozaar ammo mods: AC -20% DR -20% damage mod 1/1
Gauss Rifle damage: 32-42, AP requirement: 5;
Gauss Rifle ammo mods: AC -30% DR -20% damage mod 3/2
Advanced Power Armor mk. II Damage Threshold: 18.
This means that, after we apply the damage, damage modifier, and burst rounds in formula in favour of the small gun (because I know it's way weaker), Gauss Rifle inflicts 36.5 damage on average per bullet, and Bozar inflicts 12 damage on average per bullet, not counting DR (or miss chance) in both cases. In bursts of range more than one hex against a single target (the worst case here), just 1/3 of the bullets have a chance to hit. In the Bozar's case, it's 5 bullets out of 15. This means 50 damage opposed to Gauss Rifle's 36.5. And to round up my victory, it's 37% more damage. Also, in point blank bursts, Bozar does 3 times more damage. And I don't think that the bonus 10% AC reduction from Gauss Rifle's ammo makes up for that, especially given that in the lategame, people have enough skill for 95% hits all the time.
That damage is in case all the bullets hit. But Gauss Rifle can miss, too. So on average, it's affected by miss chance in the same way. Also, Bozar's bullets are way easier to find (though Bozar uses more bullets). And Bozar is much more powerful against enemies with less armor.
So much for the Bozar vs Gauss Rifle case. However, small guns are better than big guns until the mid/late game. Frank Horrigan has 2 more DT than APA Mk. II, but it's still 50 damage for Bozar, and I'm too lazy to calculate for Gauss Rifle (though it's certainly less than 36.5, so it's inarguably still weaker than Bozar).
Bozar damage: 25-35, burst rounds: 15, AP requirement: 6;
Bozaar ammo mods: AC -20% DR -20% damage mod 1/1
Gauss Rifle damage: 32-42, AP requirement: 5;
Gauss Rifle ammo mods: AC -30% DR -20% damage mod 3/2
Advanced Power Armor mk. II Damage Threshold: 18.
This means that, after we apply the damage, damage modifier, and burst rounds in formula in favour of the small gun (because I know it's way weaker), Gauss Rifle inflicts 36.5 damage on average per bullet, and Bozar inflicts 12 damage on average per bullet, not counting DR (or miss chance) in both cases. In bursts of range more than one hex against a single target (the worst case here), just 1/3 of the bullets have a chance to hit. In the Bozar's case, it's 5 bullets out of 15. This means 50 damage opposed to Gauss Rifle's 36.5. And to round up my victory, it's 37% more damage. Also, in point blank bursts, Bozar does 3 times more damage. And I don't think that the bonus 10% AC reduction from Gauss Rifle's ammo makes up for that, especially given that in the lategame, people have enough skill for 95% hits all the time.
That damage is in case all the bullets hit. But Gauss Rifle can miss, too. So on average, it's affected by miss chance in the same way. Also, Bozar's bullets are way easier to find (though Bozar uses more bullets). And Bozar is much more powerful against enemies with less armor.
So much for the Bozar vs Gauss Rifle case. However, small guns are better than big guns until the mid/late game. Frank Horrigan has 2 more DT than APA Mk. II, but it's still 50 damage for Bozar, and I'm too lazy to calculate for Gauss Rifle (though it's certainly less than 36.5, so it's inarguably still weaker than Bozar).
Blackened said:
A shot to the eyes with the Gauss rifle invalidates your argument.
TheGM
The voice of reason
A shot to the eyes......
Dammit! Somebody beat me to it.
Dammit! Somebody beat me to it.
This reminds me that I forgot to take in account the AP.
With Fast Shot and Bonus Rate Of Fire, Bozar has 4 AP req, and Gauss Rifle - 3. With AP of 9 or more, this means Gauss Rifle has 1 more shot per round. When fired against 1 target with APA MK II (keep in mind that even in Enclave base, most soldiers don't have that armor) at non-point-blank, it does 110 damage, versus Bozar's 100 damage. Not a big difference. But Bozar does 300 damage per round at point blank range. And it can hit multiple targets anyway. I think Bozar wins here.
Every big gun user should use Fast Shot, because big guns have no aimed shots. But if the Gauss Rifle user has no aimed shot, then he has aimed shots for 5 AP each. With 10 or 11 AP, he has as much shots per round as the Bozar user. I have too little experience with playing without Fast Shot. But I'm sure that Bozar is still better overall. Because nearly no one can survive a point blank burst from Bozar. Even if he survives, he'd survive Gauss Rifle crit to the eyes too.
And if we count instakill crits, then Flares are better, because they can instakill, and they cost 2 AP.
With Fast Shot and Bonus Rate Of Fire, Bozar has 4 AP req, and Gauss Rifle - 3. With AP of 9 or more, this means Gauss Rifle has 1 more shot per round. When fired against 1 target with APA MK II (keep in mind that even in Enclave base, most soldiers don't have that armor) at non-point-blank, it does 110 damage, versus Bozar's 100 damage. Not a big difference. But Bozar does 300 damage per round at point blank range. And it can hit multiple targets anyway. I think Bozar wins here.
Every big gun user should use Fast Shot, because big guns have no aimed shots. But if the Gauss Rifle user has no aimed shot, then he has aimed shots for 5 AP each. With 10 or 11 AP, he has as much shots per round as the Bozar user. I have too little experience with playing without Fast Shot. But I'm sure that Bozar is still better overall. Because nearly no one can survive a point blank burst from Bozar. Even if he survives, he'd survive Gauss Rifle crit to the eyes too.
And if we count instakill crits, then Flares are better, because they can instakill, and they cost 2 AP.
cunningandvalor
It Wandered In From the Wastes
Yikes. Blackened, I feel bad for you because forces far greater than we are about to do all of the research necessary to make a plausible counter-argument. They are literally lurking in the data which controls these things and figuring out an antisolution. However, you've presented your data in a clear and concise way and I applaud your logic. I'm going to start a new game now and just go get the bozar right away and play with it for nostalgic value.
Bozar vs gausrifle is honestly compaing pears and apples it uses two diffrent range types, the one (bozar) is about putting as much lead in the air as fast as possible while the other is about aimed shoots (gaus weapons)
gausrifle ussualy wins out massive with more criticals massive criticals sniper perks, at that point aimed shoots to the eyes normally takes out anything at very long ranges, simply by critting them
While the bozar you ussuly have to get closer to make sure all rounds hit and you dont use aimed shoots but just keep bursting so you use A LOT more ammo.
I just finished a playthruu of fallout2 and i neer had any problem with ammo for my gausrifle oince i got it since you harly eer use more than one round per enemy.
gausrifle ussualy wins out massive with more criticals massive criticals sniper perks, at that point aimed shoots to the eyes normally takes out anything at very long ranges, simply by critting them
While the bozar you ussuly have to get closer to make sure all rounds hit and you dont use aimed shoots but just keep bursting so you use A LOT more ammo.
I just finished a playthruu of fallout2 and i neer had any problem with ammo for my gausrifle oince i got it since you harly eer use more than one round per enemy.
Blackened said:
You can't really say the Bozar is better. It's better suited for certain situations, but not really better than the Gauss rifle.
For that matter, nearly no one can survive a shot to the eyes with the Gauss either - it has a high critical chance and instakills lesser foes. That's generally the point - the Gauss rifle (with Better Criticals) has the ability to instakill with a critical, rather than raw damage.
Really, your argument is for a Big Guns character. Some people don't like playing with Big guns, prefering Small Guns, so stop trying to prove that a pear is objectively better than a banana.
The beauty of the Bozar was the fact that the weapon has a spray effect. Aim for the sucker at the back of the pack and you have a good chance of killing more than one with one attack, and after you hit animal critters, they have this tendency to chase you and ignore any followers. So in a tougher encounter the hit and run approach can work wonders, but this isn’t necessarily the case with critters that shoot back. I’ve done damage in the hundreds with the Bozar; some people have reported their damage in the thousands. Horses for courses.
Incidentally the Bozar has been removed from the NCR entrance map in the RP (replaced with the light-support weapon), but it can still be found in the normal “radioactive location” (so there is only one in the game now) – I hope I haven’t caused unnecessary stress for the Bozar lovers out there.
Incidentally the Bozar has been removed from the NCR entrance map in the RP (replaced with the light-support weapon), but it can still be found in the normal “radioactive location” (so there is only one in the game now) – I hope I haven’t caused unnecessary stress for the Bozar lovers out there.
The argument is about the biased comment that Big Guns is a garbage skill. Then the same genius claimed the gauss is no doubt the best weapon and it is A LOT EASIER to get by with it than any other. It is true that before you get access to the guns in the Big Guns category it is rather useless. However that doesn't mean it's garbage. Using that as basis for judgement would mean that most other skills are garbage as well because you aren't able to use them all the time.Tagaziel said:
Blackened was just trying to prove that the Bozar isn't as inferior, thereby also proving that Big Guns has it's merits in FO2.
There won't be any argument anyway if the claim that gauss is the ultimate best weapon in the game and everything else is just garbage is true.