Hardboiled Android
Vault Fossil
Avellone was the lead on Old World Blues, just about peak reddit humor and by far the 'funniest' part of FNV.
To my memory Sawyer's writing for FNV is pretty humorless by contrast.
Josh Sawyer interview at RPS
- Thread starter CT Phipps
- Start date
Vault Fossil
To my memory Sawyer's writing for FNV is pretty humorless by contrast.
Oh yeah Avellone is a ball of cringe. Just look at his tweet history that was used to exonerate his sexual harassment claims. Bro was clinically obsessed with tweeting 2012 era cringe tweets.
Sawyers Twitter is just leftist populist brain rot.
CT Phipps
Carbon Dated and Proud
Which is funny because Honest Hearts is the most singularly conservative Fallout media. A "back to Nature", repel the foreign invaders taking our land, traditionalist values story with no real revisionism.
The only part that wouldn't be at home in a John Ford Western is the missionary's paternalism is treated mildly negatively.
Except you forget about Daniel who is supposed to be the moral equivalent of Joshua Graham even though not a single player has ever agreed with him. Daniel is clearly meant to be the more moral choice. The more peaceful kumbaya late 2000’s Obama era liberal choice.
Either way Sawyer has always been left leaning but the past decade he’s been addicted to Twitter and its far left pipeline.
CT Phipps
Carbon Dated and Proud
I dunno, the ending show Daniel's decision is objectively stupid and meant to piss off the player.
And speaking as a leftie anarchist weirdo who would have been at home in the Followers of the Apocalypse, Obama was constantly engaged in war and conflict. His primary foreign policy seemed to be, "What if we fought the War on Terror SMARTER?"
Which makes the whole thing all the more hilarious as a comparison.
1. I wish Obama was the supposed terrorist annihilator lefties think he was.
2. I'm speaking more about the attitudes and beliefs of the median engaged Democrat voter at the time.
Tbf, even Tim Cain has said lefity sentiment.
The whole joke of the Fallout vaults originally was how Capitalism is that intrusive.
Vault tec made the vaults and while inside, you are advertised vault tec products that you can thej use to survive in the outside World.
I remember Tim Cain talking about that years ago, and considering he is a gay man who was working in the game’s industry in 90’s California, I don’t really think he would hold a lot of conservative beliefs.
Maybe he is a conservative however and it’s a South Oark case where they can critique their own politics a bit.
Regardless, the interview just confirmed what I already knew, most of the creators don’t really care all that much.
I’m pretty sure they are just happy that something they’ve contributed to has mainstreme appeal.
I mean, Tim himself seems overwhelmed that something that he pretty much help kick-start is now getting that big success.
I mean, look at him when he talks about the first episode, he is finding all the little details that we just gloss over, for him, it’s not so much about the bigger picture but the smaller things People get right.
The whole joke of the Fallout vaults originally was how Capitalism is that intrusive.
Vault tec made the vaults and while inside, you are advertised vault tec products that you can thej use to survive in the outside World.
I remember Tim Cain talking about that years ago, and considering he is a gay man who was working in the game’s industry in 90’s California, I don’t really think he would hold a lot of conservative beliefs.
Maybe he is a conservative however and it’s a South Oark case where they can critique their own politics a bit.
Regardless, the interview just confirmed what I already knew, most of the creators don’t really care all that much.
I’m pretty sure they are just happy that something they’ve contributed to has mainstreme appeal.
I mean, Tim himself seems overwhelmed that something that he pretty much help kick-start is now getting that big success.
I mean, look at him when he talks about the first episode, he is finding all the little details that we just gloss over, for him, it’s not so much about the bigger picture but the smaller things People get right.
CT Phipps
Carbon Dated and Proud
Fallout is also a game world that has passed from different hands and people accept that.
Tim Cain gave Fallout to Chris Avellone and it was really Avellone who made Fallout 2 and Van Buren/New Vegas.
Sawyer and Avellone were happy to write a game for Bethesda and would be happy to write for them again according to him.
They've been generally all very happy to work together behind the scenes.
Sorry, not trying to get distracted.
Ironically, that was meant as a sort of agreement that Obama wasn't the savior of the left he was supposed to be.
Is there a collection of Avellone's impressions somewhere? I know there are a few loose tweets, but don't want to have to make a twitter account to read it
Doma
First time out of the vault
Man , Sawyer keeps beating himself up over PoE2. That game is a damn masterpiece and my personal "BG3" tbh..
At this rate PoE3 is looking uncertain...
At this rate PoE3 is looking uncertain...
CT Phipps
Carbon Dated and Proud
Ah OK, so he's not done watching yet. Maybe he'll revive his medium or something for full impressions later if we're lucky
Hawkwing74
It Wandered In From the Wastes
I also really liked PoE2, played through it twice. Did it not sell well?
I don't think so. Wasn't Van Buren's main plot his idea? I remember him being the initial project lead/director for it and when he left for Obsidian they put Sawyer there and he eventually left for Obsidian as well. And that plot being that there's a virus and the villain wants to utilize that virus to get AI to nuke the earth all over again? Well, at least significant regions of it.
He definitely was major in writing Ulysses and the plot of Lonesome Road, which again treads similar grounds. Hell, it's technically "harder" (saying that in quotes because you need to have high speech and high rep with Legion or NCR or you have to fight Ulysses and sacrifice ED-E) to stop the nukes he wants to use to cut the metaphorical throats of the Legion and NCR. Sure, that's not an apocalypse but that's a way to turn back progress on their advancements towards creating and maintaining a larger civilization under their ideology and rule.
He might not like the reasoning for it but I doubt he's going to mind the fate of it. I think he's always been down to reset the progress in Fallout because eventually, it'd become less about the apocalyptic wasteland and it's obvious. I too enjoy the more realistic notion of how people rebuild afterwards but eventually it wouldn't be the same type of game or lend itself to be much of what you'd want in a Fallout game. I also think this is a factor in why Bethesda's Fallouts, regardless of what year they're set in, maintain that environment that the bombs might not have fallen more than 100 years ago. They don't want to push themselves out of the apocalypse so they can make more games. They make their moves to keep it apocalyptic a bit more in your face with just not even bothering to cover why people haven't rebuilt like you'd expect after 4+ generations.
I expect all of this from him to be honest. He seems well adjusted and knows how to approach things in a good manner. I'm not shocked he also approaches the distaste of the show from fans in a tasteful way. I feel like many of the older iconic figureheads of Fallout approach the fans this way and it's why Pete Hines irked me so much
He also probably just genuinely feels like he says he does in this article. He's expressed similar things before and I don't see why his involvement in Fallout would be any different. If they get emotionally invested in things they are only ever contractors for, they'll find themselves with an unnecessarily large amount of disappointment.
I'd say this is a level of emotional maturity alongside professionalism. He makes games, he doesn't just play them and go work a different job. He wants to create games, yes, but he's also very aware of the industry he is in and the possibilities that can be taken away from him with something he's created. He legally does not own that stuff.
Fixed
“I'm not going to go anywhere near the argument of who is responsible for Fallout's greatness, except to say that Scott Campbell never gets the credit he deserves in all these arguments. He wrote a lot of the original story and came up with a lot of the characters and places as well.”— Leonard Boyarsky about Scott Campbell
Also, John Gonzalez was a major contributor the New Vegas plot and characters to the point I'd attribute more of the main game to him than Avellone. He wrote Benny, House, Vulpes Inculta, Ricky, Stella, Randall Clark's logs, Yes Man, Victor, Davison, many characters in the Casa Madrid apartments, the Forecaster, Caesar (with contributions from Sawyer), created and designed the Boomer faction, and created Lanius but Avellone wrote Lanius's dialogue. He also created the concepts for the casinos and the Three Families and was the major writer for the central plot of the main game.
I think we ought to not pretend like only a handful of people are the most important developers in this series and start attributing some credit to those who contributed more than we might superficially expect. Tim has often talked about how others contributed so much to the game and I believe Sawyer and Avellone have as well.
Here's how Chris Avellone's takes about the Fallout show go for many fans right now:
1. Chris Avellone says it's not that great or criticizes a lot of the show and validates your take that it's a shit show.
2. Chris Avellone says it's pretty good and praises a lot of the show with some lesser criticisms and validates your take it's a good show.
3. Chris Avellone does #1 or #2 and you were expecting the opposite and now you're going to say well fuck him he's not even actually important to Fallout anyway or he's never actually been a good writer and was carried by others.
4. You're a well adjusted person who is interested in his opinion but won't get emotionally distraught when he disagrees with you or emotionally giddy when he agrees with you. You read what he has to say and take it for what it's worth and don't bellyache or parade his opinion around like a trophy.
Norzan
So Old I'm Losing Radiation Signs
Him being long gone from Obsidian is one of the main reasons why i don't want that company touching Fallout. It's clear something was lost when he left the company.
I have no clue how well his other work was done outside of Horizon: Zero Dawn. I think other people could do well too. Personally, I'd trust Josh Sawyer's direction and choice of writers and designers assuming he'd get some level of choice.
crandt
First time out of the vault
Stop being mean everyone be nice
I don't think so. Wasn't Van Buren's main plot his idea? I remember him being the initial project lead/director for it and when he left for Obsidian they put Sawyer there and he eventually left for Obsidian as well. And that plot being that there's a virus and the villain wants to utilize that virus to get AI to nuke the earth all over again? Well, at least significant regions of it.
He definitely was major in writing Ulysses and the plot of Lonesome Road, which again treads similar grounds. Hell, it's technically "harder" (saying that in quotes because you need to have high speech and high rep with Legion or NCR or you have to fight Ulysses and sacrifice ED-E) to stop the nukes he wants to use to cut the metaphorical throats of the Legion and NCR. Sure, that's not an apocalypse but that's a way to turn back progress on their advancements towards creating and maintaining a larger civilization under their ideology and rule.
He might not like the reasoning for it but I doubt he's going to mind the fate of it. I think he's always been down to reset the progress in Fallout because eventually, it'd become less about the apocalyptic wasteland and it's obvious. I too enjoy the more realistic notion of how people rebuild afterwards but eventually it wouldn't be the same type of game or lend itself to be much of what you'd want in a Fallout game. I also think this is a factor in why Bethesda's Fallouts, regardless of what year they're set in, maintain that environment that the bombs might not have fallen more than 100 years ago. They don't want to push themselves out of the apocalypse so they can make more games. They make their moves to keep it apocalyptic a bit more in your face with just not even bothering to cover why people haven't rebuilt like you'd expect after 4+ generations.
I expect all of this from him to be honest. He seems well adjusted and knows how to approach things in a good manner. I'm not shocked he also approaches the distaste of the show from fans in a tasteful way. I feel like many of the older iconic figureheads of Fallout approach the fans this way and it's why Pete Hines irked me so much
He also probably just genuinely feels like he says he does in this article. He's expressed similar things before and I don't see why his involvement in Fallout would be any different. If they get emotionally invested in things they are only ever contractors for, they'll find themselves with an unnecessarily large amount of disappointment.
I'd say this is a level of emotional maturity alongside professionalism. He makes games, he doesn't just play them and go work a different job. He wants to create games, yes, but he's also very aware of the industry he is in and the possibilities that can be taken away from him with something he's created. He legally does not own that stuff.
Fixed
“I'm not going to go anywhere near the argument of who is responsible for Fallout's greatness, except to say that Scott Campbell never gets the credit he deserves in all these arguments. He wrote a lot of the original story and came up with a lot of the characters and places as well.”— Leonard Boyarsky about Scott Campbell
Also, John Gonzalez was a major contributor the New Vegas plot and characters to the point I'd attribute more of the main game to him than Avellone. He wrote Benny, House, Vulpes Inculta, Ricky, Stella, Randall Clark's logs, Yes Man, Victor, Davison, many characters in the Casa Madrid apartments, the Forecaster, Caesar (with contributions from Sawyer), created and designed the Boomer faction, and created Lanius but Avellone wrote Lanius's dialogue. He also created the concepts for the casinos and the Three Families and was the major writer for the central plot of the main game.
I think we ought to not pretend like only a handful of people are the most important developers in this series and start attributing some credit to those who contributed more than we might superficially expect. Tim has often talked about how others contributed so much to the game and I believe Sawyer and Avellone have as well.
Here's how Chris Avellone's takes about the Fallout show go for many fans right now:
1. Chris Avellone says it's not that great or criticizes a lot of the show and validates your take that it's a shit show.
2. Chris Avellone says it's pretty good and praises a lot of the show with some lesser criticisms and validates your take it's a good show.
3. Chris Avellone does #1 or #2 and you were expecting the opposite and now you're going to say well fuck him he's not even actually important to Fallout anyway or he's never actually been a good writer and was carried by others.
4. You're a well adjusted person who is interested in his opinion but won't get emotionally distraught when he disagrees with you or emotionally giddy when he agrees with you. You read what he has to say and take it for what it's worth and don't bellyache or parade his opinion around like a trophy.
I recall Chris even saying he wasn’t super involved in New Vegas and that his main contribution was the DLCs. (This was around the time that people believed there to be a big rivalry between the two for some reason, also Chris was working on Alpha Protocol shortly before FNV ramped up production). Heck Josh Gonzalez wrote Caesar, Mr. House, and came up with the entire idea of the strip families. Without that I don’t even know what New Vegas would be. Probably a completely different game. FNV was lightning in a bottle as I don’t think Chris or Gonzalez will ever return to Obsidian.
Jabberwok
Mildly Dipped
This is...only if you support the position of the people in the story? I played it and saw barbaric, broken people murdering each other while hiding behind religion. That's what I assumed I was meant to see, but I guess someone else might see wholesome Christian values in that. Maybe the sort of person who cheers when the soldiers in Full Metal Jacket execute a teenage girl...
I dunno, personally I never forgot that Joshua was an ex-Legion general, not a hero. Likeable or not, he's not on the moral high ground
CT Phipps
Carbon Dated and Proud
Honest Hearts I think fails as any sort of moral choice because while "pacifism versus violence" is a perfectly valid point, the game is a 1st and 3rd person shooter so by the time you reach the Valley, you've already killed hundreds of people in defense or the defense of others.
Defending yourself against genocidal invaders is also about as basic a moral as you can get.