"Kid In The Fridge" Quest = the stupidest quest ever.

[SaucyLad]

Radiation works differently in the Fallout-universe. There it actually can lead to becoming a ghoul.
Personally I thought it would happen more rarely and only under certain conditions (like long-term, low to medium intensity exposure), but since Moira had to survive a nuclear blast it's now radiation -> ghoul.

That was how I always took it with the older games too. The small ghoul populace in the older games helped affirm that line of thinking as well.

In Fallout 4 though it would seem 50% or more of the entire Commonwealth populace are Ghouls.. which is really silly because it just paints a picture of the nukes hitting Boston and surrounding states and rather than people dying.. they just become a Ghoul and continue living.

Why the hell did Vault-Tec even bother making vaults if most people can just survive nukes like that?

 

[Plzstandbuy]

Frankly I want to see more humanoid creatures in Fallout that aren't Ghouls, Super Mutants, or Robots/Synths.

They could have done something like that. Some mutation caused him to go into a stasis of sorts.

Ghoul physiology allowed him to hibernate instead of freezing to death.

So like a bear except without the oxygen apart. Sounds legit. Why was he awake when I ran by then? Did I startle him out of hibernation sleep?

No, like an insect, nearly frozen solid. I meant that that's how they should have done it if they wanted the quest. Make it some limited fusion powered fridge for additional laughs. I'm part of the Fev ghoul camp so I'm probably the furthest possible person from liking the magical quantum zombie approach.

Hey me too! I support the idea that ghouls were made through FEV, which altered their physiology to survive the mass amounts of radiation, even as it had it's physical effects.

Well Bethesda had Edger Winter (or whatever his name is) become a ghoul right before the great war, so it couldnt have been FEV at least if you follow Bethesdas lore.

 

[Hassknecht]

I originally thought Ghouls were created through a combination of 'wild FEV' and radiation exposure, messing up the transformation process.
But I am in the camp of radiation now, that and a combination of other elements and a long span of time and exposure.

Alternatively; after reading a fan made theory that Ghoulism is genetically related; only some people are genetically dis-positioned to become Ghouls, most people just die from radiation poisoning.

I do think we should have seen more unique humanoid mutants like the mutant cannibals that were planned for Van Buren, I guess the tunnelers have replaced them.
No more Ghouls and Super Mutants large numbers, especially not feral Ghouls and Super Mutants that just exist to be killed.

But who am I saying it to, Fallout is now run by people who don't understand what the franchise is about and a marketing department .

There is no way radiation can give you anything but cancer at best or slowly cook you at worst. With a small dose of fev it starts to mitigate the effects of the radiation the moment it spreads in your body, competition between Fev given vitality and radiation disease gives you your twisted body. Ghouls are a poor man's supermutants with radiation disease.

Radiation works differently in the Fallout-universe. There it actually can lead to becoming a ghoul.
Personally I thought it would happen more rarely and only under certain conditions (like long-term, low to medium intensity exposure), but since Moira had to survive a nuclear blast it's now radiation -> ghoul.

This explanation is nonsense, genetics was way more secretive for the 50s public than radiation so the basis on which some poor sap introduced this explanation is worthless.

Of course it's nonsense. But it's how Fallout works, and how the writers wrote ghouls. Although there used to be some debate wether or not FEV had an influence, the consensus now is that ghouls were created purely by radiation without any influence from FEV.

 

[cybazz]

I originally thought Ghouls were created through a combination of 'wild FEV' and radiation exposure, messing up the transformation process.
But I am in the camp of radiation now, that and a combination of other elements and a long span of time and exposure.

Alternatively; after reading a fan made theory that Ghoulism is genetically related; only some people are genetically dis-positioned to become Ghouls, most people just die from radiation poisoning.

I do think we should have seen more unique humanoid mutants like the mutant cannibals that were planned for Van Buren, I guess the tunnelers have replaced them.
No more Ghouls and Super Mutants large numbers, especially not feral Ghouls and Super Mutants that just exist to be killed.

But who am I saying it to, Fallout is now run by people who don't understand what the franchise is about and a marketing department .

There is no way radiation can give you anything but cancer at best or slowly cook you at worst. With a small dose of fev it starts to mitigate the effects of the radiation the moment it spreads in your body, competition between Fev given vitality and radiation disease gives you your twisted body. Ghouls are a poor man's supermutants with radiation disease.

Radiation works differently in the Fallout-universe. There it actually can lead to becoming a ghoul.
Personally I thought it would happen more rarely and only under certain conditions (like long-term, low to medium intensity exposure), but since Moira had to survive a nuclear blast it's now radiation -> ghoul.

This explanation is nonsense, genetics was way more secretive for the 50s public than radiation so the basis on which some poor sap introduced this explanation is worthless.

Of course it's nonsense. But it's how Fallout works, and how the writers wrote ghouls. Although there used to be some debate wether or not FEV had an influence, the consensus now is that ghouls were created purely by radiation without any influence from FEV.

Fallout does not work at all because it is a game. I don't only mean that ghouls being created by radiation is unrealistic, whatever that means. This idea is stupid in every way imaginable. Person central to the creation of fallout intended the ghouls to be the creation of Fev and this is simply the better idea. You seem to not like "technobabble" so I don't think we'll reach any consensus.

 

[Hassknecht]

Fallout does not work at all because it is a game. I don't only mean that ghouls being created by radiation is unrealistic, whatever that means. This idea is stupid in every way imaginable. Person central to the creation of fallout intended the ghouls to be the creation of Fev and this is simply the better idea. You seem to not like "technobabble" so I don't think we'll reach any consensus.

I'm fine with technobabble (where necessary), and I wouldn't mind it if ghouls were created by some FEV influence. To me it's on par with the Pure-Radiation model in terms of sillyness. Ok, maybe a bit less because it adds a MacGuffin, but in the end there's not much difference. We already know that Fallout's physics work differently to ours, so it doesn't really matter if we put the handwavium in the radiation or in the FEV. Personally, I agree with Tim Cain and Chris Avellone: Fallout was supposed to be all about nuclear effects (viewed through the lens of pulpy science fiction). Like all those classic monster movies with radioactively mutated ants and stuff. Making everything at least a partial FEV effect takes too much away from that. But in the end it's all a matter of preference and not really important at all.

 

[cybazz]

Fallout does not work at all because it is a game. I don't only mean that ghouls being created by radiation is unrealistic, whatever that means. This idea is stupid in every way imaginable. Person central to the creation of fallout intended the ghouls to be the creation of Fev and this is simply the better idea. You seem to not like "technobabble" so I don't think we'll reach any consensus.

I'm fine with technobabble (where necessary), and I wouldn't mind it if ghouls were created by some FEV influence. To me it's on par with the Pure-Radiation model in terms of sillyness. Ok, maybe a bit less because it adds a MacGuffin, but in the end there's not much difference. We already know that Fallout's physics work differently to ours, so it doesn't really matter if we put the handwavium in the radiation or in the FEV. Personally, I agree with Tim Cain and Chris Avellone: Fallout was supposed to be all about nuclear effects (viewed through the lens of pulpy science fiction). Like all those classic monster movies with radioactively mutated ants and stuff. Making everything at least a partial FEV effect takes too much away from that. But in the end it's all a matter of preference and not really important at all.

So radiation is not handwavium? It is not just as silly because Fev creating ghouls would be doing what it was designed for. I always took the fev in the atmosphere as a big twist explaining things you before took for radiation results.

And don't argue with me and then talk about "preference", I told you what I prefer and why, and my preferences seem to irritate you.

 

[Hassknecht]

Fallout does not work at all because it is a game. I don't only mean that ghouls being created by radiation is unrealistic, whatever that means. This idea is stupid in every way imaginable. Person central to the creation of fallout intended the ghouls to be the creation of Fev and this is simply the better idea. You seem to not like "technobabble" so I don't think we'll reach any consensus.

I'm fine with technobabble (where necessary), and I wouldn't mind it if ghouls were created by some FEV influence. To me it's on par with the Pure-Radiation model in terms of sillyness. Ok, maybe a bit less because it adds a MacGuffin, but in the end there's not much difference. We already know that Fallout's physics work differently to ours, so it doesn't really matter if we put the handwavium in the radiation or in the FEV. Personally, I agree with Tim Cain and Chris Avellone: Fallout was supposed to be all about nuclear effects (viewed through the lens of pulpy science fiction). Like all those classic monster movies with radioactively mutated ants and stuff. Making everything at least a partial FEV effect takes too much away from that. But in the end it's all a matter of preference and not really important at all.

So radiation is not handwavium? It is not just as silly because Fev creating ghouls would be doing what it was designed for. I always took the fev in the atmosphere as a big twist explaining things you before took for radiation results.

And don't argue with me and then talk about "preference", I told you what I prefer and why, and my preferences seem to irritate you.

Then you have the wrong impression of me, it certainly does not irritate me.
To clarify this: In your initial post it sounded to me like you wanted to impose real-life-rules of radiation on the world of Fallout, which I just wanted to point out would be futile as the world of Fallout adheres to different rules.
But it's absolutely fine to have your own headcanon, and I agree that from a "realism" point of view it certainly makes more sense than just radiation.

(And of course radiation is handwavium, that was the entire point of my last post. It doesn't matter if you invent a virus or use the loose laws of Science! to explain ghouls, it's the same kind of handwavium)

 

[The_Time_Master]

as several kids died this way.

Or were murdered by their parents / siblings / friends.

 

[cybazz]

7

Fallout does not work at all because it is a game. I don't only mean that ghouls being created by radiation is unrealistic, whatever that means. This idea is stupid in every way imaginable. Person central to the creation of fallout intended the ghouls to be the creation of Fev and this is simply the better idea. You seem to not like "technobabble" so I don't think we'll reach any consensus.

I'm fine with technobabble (where necessary), and I wouldn't mind it if ghouls were created by some FEV influence. To me it's on par with the Pure-Radiation model in terms of sillyness. Ok, maybe a bit less because it adds a MacGuffin, but in the end there's not much difference. We already know that Fallout's physics work differently to ours, so it doesn't really matter if we put the handwavium in the radiation or in the FEV. Personally, I agree with Tim Cain and Chris Avellone: Fallout was supposed to be all about nuclear effects (viewed through the lens of pulpy science fiction). Like all those classic monster movies with radioactively mutated ants and stuff. Making everything at least a partial FEV effect takes too much away from that. But in the end it's all a matter of preference and not really important at all.

So radiation is not handwavium? It is not just as silly because Fev creating ghouls would be doing what it was designed for. I always took the fev in the atmosphere as a big twist explaining things you before took for radiation results.

And don't argue with me and then talk about "preference", I told you what I prefer and why, and my preferences seem to irritate you.

Then you have the wrong impression of me, it certainly does not irritate me.
To clarify this: In your initial post it sounded to me like you wanted to impose real-life-rules of radiation on the world of Fallout, which I just wanted to point out would be futile as the world of Fallout adheres to different rules.
But it's absolutely fine to have your own headcanon, and I agree that from a "realism" point of view it certainly makes more sense than just radiation.

(And of course radiation is handwavium, that was the entire point of my last post. It doesn't matter if you invent a virus or use the loose laws of Science! to explain ghouls, it's the same kind of handwavium)

I never said that I cared about realism, I said the idea of the 50s physics is stupid in every way. Original fallout bible and fallout 1 will always be the source of superior ideas. It was awesome as a kind of twist: oh, it's radiation like always. And then we learn about Fev. We go from the 50s mutant source, to the 80s mutant source. Fo1 looked more 80s than 50s too. I'm not judging realism I'm judging quality. The word canon is the stupidest word ever intended it implies a strife for some naive realism where everything is neatly set in their boxes and there is no uncertainty.

 

[Dr Fallout]

7

Fallout does not work at all because it is a game. I don't only mean that ghouls being created by radiation is unrealistic, whatever that means. This idea is stupid in every way imaginable. Person central to the creation of fallout intended the ghouls to be the creation of Fev and this is simply the better idea. You seem to not like "technobabble" so I don't think we'll reach any consensus.

I'm fine with technobabble (where necessary), and I wouldn't mind it if ghouls were created by some FEV influence. To me it's on par with the Pure-Radiation model in terms of sillyness. Ok, maybe a bit less because it adds a MacGuffin, but in the end there's not much difference. We already know that Fallout's physics work differently to ours, so it doesn't really matter if we put the handwavium in the radiation or in the FEV. Personally, I agree with Tim Cain and Chris Avellone: Fallout was supposed to be all about nuclear effects (viewed through the lens of pulpy science fiction). Like all those classic monster movies with radioactively mutated ants and stuff. Making everything at least a partial FEV effect takes too much away from that. But in the end it's all a matter of preference and not really important at all.

So radiation is not handwavium? It is not just as silly because Fev creating ghouls would be doing what it was designed for. I always took the fev in the atmosphere as a big twist explaining things you before took for radiation results.

And don't argue with me and then talk about "preference", I told you what I prefer and why, and my preferences seem to irritate you.

Then you have the wrong impression of me, it certainly does not irritate me.
To clarify this: In your initial post it sounded to me like you wanted to impose real-life-rules of radiation on the world of Fallout, which I just wanted to point out would be futile as the world of Fallout adheres to different rules.
But it's absolutely fine to have your own headcanon, and I agree that from a "realism" point of view it certainly makes more sense than just radiation.

(And of course radiation is handwavium, that was the entire point of my last post. It doesn't matter if you invent a virus or use the loose laws of Science! to explain ghouls, it's the same kind of handwavium)

I never said that I cared about realism, I said the idea of the 50s physics is stupid in every way. Original fallout bible and fallout 1 will always be the source of superior ideas. It was awesome as a kind of twist: oh, it's radiation like always. And then we learn about Fev. We go from the 50s mutant source, to the 80s mutant source. Fo1 looked more 80s than 50s too. I'm not judging realism I'm judging quality. The word canon is the stupidest word ever intended it implies a strife for some naive realism where everything is neatly set in their boxes and there is no uncertainty.

Agreed strongly here. FEV made more sense then just radiation.

 

[MutatedPanda]

Since someone brought up the Children of Atom, am I the only one who thought it would've been cool to stumble upon the Children of Atom camp in Fallout 4, and instead of healthy people, you find horribly mutated used-to-be-people? And as you talk to them, you find out that they think their mutations that morphed them into disgusting beings with an expanded life-span were just blessings from Atom? And maybe to give you a reason to kill them, they explain to you that they plan of spreading these "blessings" to the wasteland (meaning, they plan on exposing the wasteland to large amounts of radiation...somehow (I haven't thought too far ahead))

 

[SaucyLad]

Since someone brought up the Children of Atom, am I the only one who thought it would've been cool to stumble upon the Children of Atom camp in Fallout 4, and instead of healthy people, you find horribly mutated used-to-be-people? And as you talk to them, you find out that they think their mutations that morphed them into disgusting beings with an expanded life-span were just blessings from Atom? And maybe to give you a reason to kill them, they explain to you that they plan of spreading these "blessings" to the wasteland (meaning, they plan on exposing the wasteland to large amounts of radiation...somehow (I haven't thought too far ahead))

That would have been a decent way to interact with them. It'd given the player the choice of keeping them non-hostile and a reason to actually kill them should they desire doing so.

To be honest when I first discovered them I was walking around the shore-line and they just started lobbing nukes at me.. I thought to myself "Huh.. these aren't raiders, what did I do to piss them off?". I reloaded my save, trekked back there to try and talk with them and.. they still tried killing me.

I was massively disappointed then that Bethesda made even more NPC's into generic kill fodder for the player to shoot through. This is completely the wrong kind of immersion for a Fallout game..

 

[MercenarySnake]

Since someone brought up the Children of Atom, am I the only one who thought it would've been cool to stumble upon the Children of Atom camp in Fallout 4, and instead of healthy people, you find horribly mutated used-to-be-people? And as you talk to them, you find out that they think their mutations that morphed them into disgusting beings with an expanded life-span were just blessings from Atom? And maybe to give you a reason to kill them, they explain to you that they plan of spreading these "blessings" to the wasteland (meaning, they plan on exposing the wasteland to large amounts of radiation...somehow (I haven't thought too far ahead))

No...what would of been cool and satisfying is if all the children of the atom died from the bombing of megaton with the few leftover members giving up the religion turning into disgusting feral ghoul zombies only to die horrible deaths.

 

[whirlingdervish]

I would definitely expect to see more ghoulification than not from the Megaton quest in Fallout 3.

Since the bomb in Megaton was in the bottom of a giant nonsensical crater already, the force of the explosion would have been directed upward and it would have had a very limited lateral area of affect other than tons of fallout (ground bursts are dirty) and the various forms of radiation that don't care about dirt being in their way.

If it's radiation and not FEV that causes ghouls, I'd expect lots of the COA to be ghouls if they lived through the blast.

 

[MercenarySnake]

I'm wondering why megaton was stupid enough to build a town around a BOMB! I heard some people like on Reddit say it was due to being a threat to raiders? Is that supposed to mean the town is suicidal and willing to set it off because of raiders?

 

[Someguy37]

I'm wondering why megaton was stupid enough to build a town around a BOMB! I heard some people like on Reddit say it was due to being a threat to raiders? Is that supposed to mean the town is suicidal and willing to set it off because of raiders?

The Lone Wanderer: "How did the town start?"

Manya Vargas: "Well, originally, it started as a hole in the ground. My papi talked about how his father and the original settlers just hid in this crater. It was enough to keep them safe from the dust storms. When things cooled down and people started wandering into the Wastes, some stayed behind. The wanderers started coming back here to trade their stuff. By the time my papi was born, the town was a full on trading center. Papi got rich on the caravan routes and eventually convinced the others to build the walls to hold off the Raiders."

The Lone Wanderer: "So it was just a collection of traders in the beginning?"

Manya Vargas: "Not at first. It was a collection of people trying to get into the vault, people worshipping the bomb, and a few other refugees. Then the traders came. Now the caravans take care of most of the trading, but before they were set up, it was all Megaton. I worked on the caravans with my father for a while. That's how I met that worthless bag of liver spots I call a husband."

The Lone Wanderer: "What's this place made of?"

Manya Vargas: "Long ago, before the war, there used to be machines they were like buses, but they flew through the sky, taking people anywhere they wanted to go. You didn't have to walk, you just went to the air station, bought a ticket, and took to the skies. Anywhere in the world, you just up and flew there. When the war happened, the machines started dropping from the sky. Everyone around here thinks that the bomb made the crater, but it didn't. The crater provided good cover from the dust storms and when my daddy and the rest of the town decided to build the walls, they used what they had."

The Lone Wanderer: "There are a lot of parts here for just one machine."

Manya Vargas: "Good eye. You're right honey, there are. There was an air station a couple of miles from here. It'd been stripped of everything except the planes. My daddy got a bunch of people together to go out there, break apart the machines and drag back what we could use. It took 'em a couple of months. You can't even tell where the air station was anymore. The Wasteland just took it back."

The Lone Wanderer: "Why build the walls out of some old flying machine?"

Manya Vargas: "It's a hell of a lot easier than trying to find enough parts to build walls and houses from nothing. The scrap was there, why not use it? Besides, it's sturdy. It keeps the Raiders and the dust storms out. Not all of us had the luck to be born in a vault, you know."

The Lone Wanderer: "So why didn't they move the bomb?"

Manya Vargas: "Some of us wanted to. But the Church of Atom was just getting its start then. We needed their help to build the walls and clear the wreckage. If we'd have tried to move the bomb, they would have refused to help. Besides, a lot of people just wanted to leave it alone. It didn't seem to be hurting anything and who knows what would happen if we messed with it."

 

[whirlingdervish]

Long story short, they never tell us why the Bomb was in the hole in the first place, and only mention the airplane parts and other stuff being moved there to create the walls after the fact, once the town was already there as a trading hub.

Before the traders showed up and made the place prosperous (so they needed walls), there were already people there worshiping the bomb in the hole, that has no reason to be in the aforementioned hole, since it didn't explode and make a hole the size of a town.

Apparently these later/trader people DID understand the inherent danger of the bomb since they were unwilling to mess with it, and some of them initially wanted to move it out.

Fast forward to the time of Fallout 3 and there is still no reason any sane person outside the COA was living there, other than it appearing to be safer than the wastes. (this appearance is only maintained if they think the bomb is a dud)

 

[Someguy37]

Long story short, they never tell us why the Bomb was in the hole in the first place,

The bomb was likely on the plane that crashed, and made the crater in the first place.
"When the war happened, the machines started dropping from the sky. Everyone around here thinks that the bomb made the crater, but it didn't."

 

[MercenarySnake]

Yeah it's stupid why any sane person would be okay with living around a bomb when some random lone psychopath can just waltz on in and blow it up. Wasn't there a super duper mart nearby that they could build around that already had food? Sorry I didn't bother with the blistering stupidity of that turd, just kept reading up about how absolutely stupid it was.

 

[Someguy37]

Wasn't there a super duper mart nearby that they could build around that already had food?

No, all the food in the super duper Mart was raided shortly after the war. The only food left in there is the stash made by the raiders.