"Kill All Chechyens!"

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Its looking like there was actually well over a thousand people crammed into the gym and the casualties are much higher, more then one hundred.

God damn it
 
i think that the "civilian" army types, you're referring to Silencer, are probably ex-military. a lot of soldiers have left the russian army in the past decade. they werent getting paid for months on end and were barely getting anything to eat. quite a lot just left and took their equipment with them.

it is a possibility (i'm not saying it's a certainty), that those people took up their arms again when their family and friends were threathened. although i'm not quite sure why the russian army would allow them to remain on site (as they could be potential undercover hostagetakers).

at first glimps, i dont see any other logical explaination... (although i'm aware my theory has it's share of holes)
 
I go to college for five days and the first time I gain access to a computer in leisure, I find that this shit happens?

According to what I've read, there's been some 150-odd casualties. Haven't heard anything about fatalities, though. As many as 13 terrorists escaped in the carnage.

Also interesting to note, is that among the hostage-takers were 9 Arab mercenaries. No real significance, just thought it was interesting that the Chechyens need to hire guns to do their dirty work. You'd think there wouldn't be a shortage of extremists in that shit hole.

Also, for what it's worth, it was a good joke before the shit hit the fan.
 
Yes, it is sad. I mean children, but war/terrorism is like that. Because of indifference and intolerance, the future has been scarred.

My heart goes out to those Russians. No one should endure that.
 
my heart goes out to the Chechyens as well.

now that this has happened all signs point toward another big military offensive on their ass. the only other way to save face is to negotiate with the ex-premier of Chechenia (or however it's written in english, i dont have a clue). but if he negotiates with the ex-premier (who is for independance, but against terrorism), Poutin will seem soft, and he probably doesnt want that...
 
Silencer said:
This whole thing just goes to show you that truancy might one day save your life.
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...so you can fail your exams, get conscripted and killed at a later date. The whole situation is just to horrible. It really reminds us of how lucky we are to be (relatively) safe and free.

I'm wondering though, why were there so many armed men out of uniform around the site?
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Probably contract security or intelligence field operatives. I was surprised because ABC news (Aus), had a reporter on the ground, relatively close to the fighting. They were soon told to move away by men without uniforms.

It's very sloppy to not be ready. Special forces cannot afford to make such mistakes. The whole crisis might backfire on Putin as well, trying to appear as calm and in control.

I still can't think what they can do about the whole thing. The Russians can't give up because of the loss of territory, prestige and security, and the Chechyens are just trying to defend their own freedom in the only way they can. The fundamentalists will always take control of both groups.
 
Briosafreak said:
APTYP said:
No, you are having a fucking political discussion.
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What do you expect, giving the situation? I`m horrified and i`m not in a mood to make jokes about that region now.
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Agreed. It's hard not be shocked by this nor is it something to joke about.

I really didn't think the Russians would go in so hard core, not after the theater incident a few years back. This is terrible and it doesn't look like either side has much idea how to come to a solution. What worries me more is that this could be a trend, not just in Russia but elsewhere. How can you protect every movie theater, every school, every shopping mall, every church?
 
Apparently it was over 35 degrees celsius outside the gym, which had no windows or anything open, so it would have been unbearable. Everyone in there would have been panicking, and overheating, so it would have been awful.

At least there were survivors.
 
Mikey said:
Apparently it was over 35 degrees celsius outside the gym, which had no windows or anything open, so it would have been unbearable.
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the windows were broken the second day of the siege i've been told...
 
welsh said:
How can you protect every movie theater, every school, every shopping mall, every church?
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By giving extremist groups less and less reasons to act in such a way.
The terrorist attacks those past years aren't just a phenomenon without any causes.
Now, I'm not justifying those heartless bastards' actions, nor claiming those people had the right to act in such a horrible way.

For the past few years, Chechenya has been trampled by Russian troops. We all know that. The Chechen separatists don't stand a chance in a frontal fight with their enemy, nor do they have much chance in winning a guerrilla war, since the Russians control and terrorize the whole population, blocking major food supplies to the rebels in the mountains.

No-one cares about Chechenya anymore. The international opinion on the subject is "Oh, hell, let the Russians take their rightful peace of land". Desperate, and faced with such indifference, Chechen rebels tend side with extremist, terrorist groups, often supported and financed by some crackpot mullah, inciting people to a holy war against the evil opressors. Oh yes. And what do you do to focus the world's opinion on a problem? Slam two jets into some building, killing thousands of innocent people.

Face it, if the world would care a tad more about that kind of people, maybe we wouldn't have such things happening all over the planet. Of course, fanatics and extreme hate groups would still exist, but probably with less population support than nowadays.
 
I agree Wooz- terrorism is not that much different from theatre. One performs a violent act on the global stage, getting media attention for doing some shocking and thereby drawing the world's attention. Often these are acts of desperate people who want attention and commit horrendous acts to get it.
 
A very good point. For a long time Chechnya was in the headlines every week, then the international media got bored and started ignoring it. The recent Chechnyan elections were a horrible fraud, with the Moscow backed candidate winning by something like 75% despite his almost total lack of support with the people. The travesty of those elections has gone pretty much unoticed in the media, at least as far as I've seen. Hardly anyone has come out condemning the elections at all. I do not in any way condone what those terrorists did at that school, but its a direct result of the world turning its back on their problems and letting Russia handle the situation, which they have clearly proven they can not. They are not interested in resolving the problems really, nor do they even possess the capacity to do so. Now in order to get people to remember there is a war going on in their country, they have turned to working with these Muslim extremists whos hobby is spreading destruction and terorrism. We can only hope the horror draws attention back to the issues at hand, of course if it does that, then the terrorists succeeded, and it will justify in their minds the killing of hundreds of children and sets the stage for even more attacks.
 
You know why it was out of the news? Why there where'nt Badgers and Hokums over Grozny after the airplane bombings? Why Putin even tried to deny it was terrorism?

Because Chechnya WAS getting better. It was largely autonomus, and the Russians just wanted to keep they're puppet government.

This was an attempt to flare it up again. I don't fucking care anymore, let the Russians at it, I'm playing Hind.

welsh said:
Briosafreak said:
APTYP said:
No, you are having a fucking political discussion.
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What do you expect, giving the situation? I`m horrified and i`m not in a mood to make jokes about that region now.
Click to expand...

Agreed. It's hard not be shocked by this nor is it something to joke about.

I really didn't think the Russians would go in so hard core, not after the theater incident a few years back. This is terrible and it doesn't look like either side has much idea how to come to a solution. What worries me more is that this could be a trend, not just in Russia but elsewhere. How can you protect every movie theater, every school, every shopping mall, every church?
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From what I hear they rushed in after they heard gunshots in the school. This might be a fuckup, but I don't blame the Russians, sounds like thay HAD to rush.


russia.shooting.jpg
 
The Chechyens aren't going to just roll over for the Russians like the Japanese rolled over for us.

Wow. An Edit AND a double-post? How'd you manage that?
 
From what I can tell, they had negotiated an agreement for an ambulance to pick up some dead bodies that had been rotting in the sun for 3 days. The ambulence pulls up and here is were the reports diverge.

Either the ambulence hit a mine the Chechyans and planted and the explosion started it or kids saw the ambulance and made a break for it and the terrorists opened fire on the kids. The russians then decided to go in, at which point the bombs in the gym went off.
 
Bradylama said:
The Chechyens aren't going to just roll over for the Russians like the Japanese rolled over for us.

Wow. An Edit AND a double-post? How'd you manage that?
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I was trying to quote Welsh, so I did a post in normal non-edit mode. I posted it so I could copy it and then delete it. Then you showed up and posted, preventing me from deleting. I should have just copied it, but could someone delete it? I honestly intended to.
 
 
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