Krai Mira on Steam Greenlight

Discussion in 'NMA News and Information' started by Wooz, Aug 30, 2015.

  1. Wooz

    Wooz Vault Sweeper Admin Orderite

    May 18, 2003
    Fallout-inspired, post-apocalyptic RPG Krai Mira is now on Steam Greenlight.
    From the game's description box text thingy:

    In development since 2013, the game could very well see its release next year.

    Awesomely enough, there's a demo out there for you to check out.
    • [Like] [Like] x 1
  2. Mr Fish

    Mr Fish Snug Rubber

    Sep 11, 2010
    Rant galore.
    I'm not really seeing how this is anything at all "like Fallout".
    Being post-apocalyptic means you're as much like any other post-apoc game out there.
    Hell, considering how combat heavy it looks it's more "like RAGE" then it is "like Fallout".

    The combat I saw from the trailer looks dull to me and I can't stand real-time combat most of the time.
    So no turn-based combat, that's another strike for me.

    Besides, being combat heavy? Apart from random encounters the first 2 Fallout games weren't that combat heavy.
    There was combat to engage in if you so choose, but it didn't revolve around combat.
    Fallout revolved around quests and interaction with NPC's as well as exploring the world for more quests and NPC's.
    If this really is combat heavy then I don't see how is "like Fallout".

    The world also looks lifeless a lot of the time. Like, everything just feels so... Static.

    No dialogue was shown so that makes me wonder if there is any dialogue at all.
    Didn't see any level up screen or skills/perks/traits/talents screen either.

    Oh and there's a dog, because of course there has to be a dog. If I ever create a post-apocalyptic franchise then I'm canonizing the extinction of dogs in the first 5 minutes.

    How exactly is this "like Fallout"?

    (I'm downloading the demo so I can try it out but my first impression is that it looks really generic and is just trying to ride on Fallout's fame without actually being anything at all like Fallout)
    ((The reason I'm being pissy is because I've seen a bunch of other times when developers have said their game was inspired by Fallout but then the game ends up not being anything like Fallout at all.))

    Early review of the first part of the game.

    Well it's not off to a good start. You can allocate stat points right off the bat but it doesn't tell you how many you got. Also, left-clicking on that healing item or whatever automatically uses it. Like... What the hell, seriously. One left-click is for selecting an item, not using it right away. And not being able to see the points you have to allocate? What the hell is up with that?

    [edit 2]

    There is a turn-based combat mode in the options. Yay!
    However, there is no way to configure keys. Boo!
    Oh and there's no "Save Game" option in the menu...


    I've only talked to two NPC's so far but the options have pretty much been:
    1. I'm going to force you to attack me for no particular sensible reason.
    2. Bye
    3. Please proceed with the actual conversation.
    So, yeah, dialogue ain't exactly engaging. Unless I want to attack or ignore the NPC's I pretty much only have one dialogue options to go with. (Interacting with NPC's doesn't feel like you're having a conversation with them)


    The level up sound made me want to blow my brain out. My god what a horrifying sound.


    I got to the village, I was bored the entire way. The game does a bad job at engaging the player to actually want to care about anything. Like, a good story needs to grab the audience's attention right away. And it didn't grab me. So when I made it to the village I felt like my mind was caving in on itself in boredom.

    Personally, I don't like it. The game, from what little I saw, did nothing well. :/


    Or well, nothing and nothing. It has potential to be good. With work and polish everything I complained about could be fixed and well, then it'd all be good. But yeah, in its current state there was little that I liked however I do see potential in all of its components and I'm hopeful that they will be fleshed out, polished and fixed.

    Like, I like a fixed stat system far more than I like some flimsy one that just goes up and up and up to the point where I ask how the hell 317 in Strength is even possible. Branching dialogue is of course always better than just linear dialogue. I like turn-based combat over real time with pause, phase-based and just plain ol real time combat when it comes to RPG's as I feel it works best for character skill over player skill. And my favorite kind of setting is an outlaw setting where post-apocalypse thrives.

    So there is definitely potential. But right now I find too many issues to find it enjoyable.
    Last edited: Sep 2, 2015
  3. Crni Vuk

    Crni Vuk M4A3 Oldfag oTO Orderite

    Nov 25, 2008
    Maybe the Fallout-inspiration that is in question here was Brotherhood of Steel for the PS?
  4. Mr Fish

    Mr Fish Snug Rubber

    Sep 11, 2010
    Well, we got post-apocalypse. We got a stat system that is somewhat similar to SPECIAL even if it is streamlined a bit. We got 'optional' turn-based combat. The inventory is similar to that of Fallout, not a replica, but similar enough to show its roots. There 'is' dialogue choices, even if said dialogue is really poor IMO and we get a dog companion at some point.

    Still, saying that it is inspired by Fallout simply means trying to ride on Fallout's earlier fame and appeal when it is in fact not at all like it. It shows some similarities, but if you're trying to sell people on it being inspired by Fallout then it should feel like you're playing Fallout to a degree IMO. Otherwise, why bother saying Fallout was an inspiration at all when saying that the post-apocalyptic setting was an inspiration is more appropriate?
  5. Marionettetc

    Marionettetc Banned

    May 15, 2013
    The various tone shifts and weird mental gymnastics you're going through to justify your predisposed dislike of this game is stunning really. You spend an entire paragraph describing, how many ways the game is similar to Fallout and then bipolar yourself into arguing your own supposed definition of the word "inspired". Like really, what the fuck are you even going on about?

    Save this kind of shitposting for the Codex and do us all a favor, alright?
  6. Crni Vuk

    Crni Vuk M4A3 Oldfag oTO Orderite

    Nov 25, 2008
    someone forced you reading trough it? :confused:
  7. Marionettetc

    Marionettetc Banned

    May 15, 2013
    By your logic, no one forced you to read my reply.

    Look, I'm all for the crusty elitism that permeates NMA considering I'm older and crustier than most posters, but intellectually dishonest behavior doesn't stop unless it's pointed out enough.
  8. IrradiatedGarlic

    IrradiatedGarlic First time out of the vault

    Jun 20, 2015
    The aesthetic resemblance to Fallout is hard to deny and it looks like it drew inspiration from Fallout for combat mechanics. The video doesn't show a lot so it's hard to tell but remember that inspired by Fallout does not mean trying to replicate it.
  9. Mr Fish

    Mr Fish Snug Rubber

    Sep 11, 2010
    I said previously that if something tries to sell itself on being "inspired by Fallout" then I expect something very heavily Fallout-inspired. This thing? It's like a lite-inspiration. Bare bones. Yes, there are similarities but they are few and poorly developed. It tries to sell itself on being "inspired by Fallout" but barely anything comes across as very Fallout-y. Yes, I can see some things that have been inspired by it, but if I were to suggest this product to a friend I would never use the term "inspired by Fallout" because it does not come across like that, despite the few similarities there are as those similarities are not necessarily what I think of when it comes to Fallout.

    When I think of Fallout I think of a cRPG where quests and interactivity with NPC's as well as good writing, good story and a well designed world are of the upmost importance. These are the things that are vital for a proper Fallout experience. Now someone creates their own game and says it is inspired by Fallout and I judge it based on what I consider Fallout to be. Does this product seem anything like Fallout to me? No. Does it have similarities to Fallout? Sure. Would I say that the product is then inspire by Fallout? No. Because if the product was inspired by Fallout then it'd be more than a fucking dog, a poor execution of a stat system and a dialogue system that is worth fuck all.

    Point I'm making is that if you are a developer and you develop a game then you should not draw huge attention towards a cult classic and insinuate that your game is anything like it if it is nothing like it. If that still does not make sense to you then whatever, I don't care.

    Let's put it like this, if a game is 5% like a product it was inspired by, then it should not sell itself as "being inspired by it".
    If a game is like 20%, I'd still say it shouldn't sell itself on "being inspired by it" because even if it is at 20% it means that the remaining 80% is nothing like it.
    A game should only pull that line if it is at like 40% or higher. If 40% of the game's content feels like you're playing the game it was inspired from then yes, you could use that line.
    Now, there are exceptions. For example, if you say your game was inspired by X's game mechanic Y then it is fine to sell it that way. Because you're being honest about what part of X you're drawing inspiration from. But when you're making a general statement about what of X your game is inspired from then a different rule apply IMO.

    So if I create a game and I draw heavy inspiration from Spore's celluar/fish stage but nothing else then I could sell the game with a line that says "A part of this game was heavily inspired by Spore's beginning stages where you evolved from a cell into a fish". That's fine. That's honest. That's detailed and explains what exactly you're drawing inspiration from. But saying that Fallout was a big inspiration when barely anything but a thing here and there seem like Fallout is dishonest IMO.

    I hope that clarifies how I feel.

    Another way to put it is that if these guys never said "it is inspired by Fallout" and I played it then how often would I go "man this is eerily reminiscent of Fallout"? The only times would be the stat system of 1-10 and the way the inventory screen is set up. But that's it. When I see the action points I don't think of Fallout because a lot of games have action points in them when it is turnbased. When I see post apocalypse I don't think of Fallout. If anything I think of Mad Max. When I see branching dialogue I don't think of Fallout I just think that every game should have branching dialogue as games are about interactivity and I don't think the narrative should be any different from the interactivity we see in the rest of the gameplay.

    So is that enough? The stat system and the inventory screen? For me, no. And I find it disingenuous.

    That's why I'm making a big deal out of the whole "inspired by Fallout" line.

    The game felt uninteresting anyway, even on its own merits. Bland boring generic post apocalypse, no configuration for keys, no save game option, you can't see the stat points to allocate at the beginning, the story is barely there, the world feels underdeveloped, the combat (what I played and what I've seen so far from the trailer) looks dull. Fuck what I think of its description. What about the game on its own merits? On its own merits, to me, the game is crap. A game that might've had a neat idea behind it but never managed to get the momentum or resources or personnel or budget to really come to fruition and they had to make do with what they could. And the end result is poor, to say the least. And to go with a tagline like "inspired by Fallout" is a cheap tactic to try to get more people to try it out when the game isn't anything like Fallout. It's as much inspired by Fallout as it is inspired by Doom. Both games have weapons in them and in both games you kill stuff. Totally inspired by Doom.


    Oh and as to this part: "to justify your predisposed dislike of this game"
    Don't make assumptions on me like that, I long for the day that I can get a game that is like the earlier Fallout's and every time I see something like this pop up I give it a chance and I try to stay as optimistic as I can because I want to believe that it will be able to fill my unsatisfied hole that Fallout left so gaping. I WANTED this fucking thing to be good. But it is not. I saw the screenshots and read the description and was quite excited, but after the trailer my excitement dropped a little but I figured that maybe they just wanted to sell people on the whole "kill stuff" which apparently gets some people off. But then I tried out the demo and a whole slew of other issues popped up and they piled up quickly after just a short while.

    I was optimistic. I wanted to believe it was going to be good. But from what I've seen and experienced (On its own merits or as a game inspired by Fallout), it is not a good game.

    The whole "inspiration" thing is me nitpicking on something that ultimately doesn't matter because a game should be judged on its own merits. I like nitpicking.


    But let's be constructive instead, in case the devs read NMA and see this post.
    1. Add a fucking number thingie for the points you can allocate at the beginning.
    2. I'd say stop selling the dog, but it's just completely subjective. I can't stand video game dogs.
    3. Drop most of the dialogue that ends up with the NPC trying to kill you. It is a cheap way to design "branching dialogue" because it gives the illusion of choice. The vast majority of people the vast majority of time will not choose the option that will force an NPC to go apeshit on them. Besides, most of it just comes across as moronically written anyway. Cut it. Cut it completely or rewrite all of it and give it a different outcome. (Maybe the guy who takes you back to the village would demand some currency if you piss him off and you can find some by looting the beach. By pissing him off you now have to spend that little bonus of currency you got) Anything's better than just "FUCK YOUR MAMA!" "Well, I guess I gotta kill you now."
    4. Flesh out the areas. They look, well, ugly. I don't demand hyper realistic environments or anything like that but I do demand good art design. And the beach and the village did not feel polished at all.
    5. More menu options. Including a way to config keys.
    6. A save/load game option.
    7. Don't just drop the player into the game instantly when they hit "new game". Give us a little intro video explaining what the hell the setting is and set up where we are and who we are and what we're doing there on the beach in the first place.
    8. Drop the line "inspired by Fallout", it just comes across as a way to try to cash in on Fallout's fame. Don't do that.
    9. Change the sound for when you level up. It is horrible and makes me want to cut my eardrums out.
    10. In the inventory, it should be double-left-click for using items or equipping them. Not one left click. It should be two.
    Last edited: Aug 30, 2015
  10. Crni Vuk

    Crni Vuk M4A3 Oldfag oTO Orderite

    Nov 25, 2008
    Complaining about the complainers. Classy.

    All I am saying is, no reason to explode. I stoped reading it after the first words. And you don't see me throwing hissy comments around. Just lay down the vitriol man.
  11. Proletären

    Proletären Moderator

    Mar 15, 2012
    Well it's still in development. A lot will problably change before the final version is out
  12. Walpknut

    Walpknut This ghoul has seen it all

    Dec 30, 2010
    Looks better than most games in greenlight.
  13. Mr Fish

    Mr Fish Snug Rubber

    Sep 11, 2010
    When that final version is released I hope I'll have less to bitch about.
    That it does, I'm amazed that certain other products even get greenlit for the greenlight program.
  14. Krai Mira

    Krai Mira First time out of the vault

    May 14, 2008
    I would like to ask you - where did you find "like Fallout"? My English is poor, but as I know "inspiration" doesn't mean "replica". Fallout itself was inspired with Mad Max, but this game is not about racing.

    I have to upset you, but we are not creating Fallout 2.5, and probably you will never see the sequel. Our game doesn't have to be a replica with the same usability, GUI and combat mode, otherwise in a few months you'll be the first who blame us saying that we are riding on Fallout's fame. Also we don't have to meet specific requirements of few individuals who hate seeing videos with dogs.
    We have our own game story, graphics and game mechanics. It may look similar to Fallout because "Being post-apocalyptic means you're as much like any other post-apoc game out there."(c)

    On the other side I would like to thank you for some of your suggestions concerning sounds, dialogues and game Intro. I've already changed the volume of UpLevel sound and placed volume controls to the Settings.
    Last edited: Sep 1, 2015
  15. Mr Fish

    Mr Fish Snug Rubber

    Sep 11, 2010
    I'm not expecting Fallout 2.5.
    All I'm saying is that using another franchise in the description for your game, saying it was an inspiration, is a cheap marketing tactic to me if the game you're producing doesn't really feel all that inspired from it. Meaning; I don't see why you have to draw attention towards Fallout in the first place. Because some people are going to see that and without doing proper research (which is the fault of them, really) think that it is going to be very influenced by Fallout when in actuality it is only lightly inspired by it.

    You want to make your own game that isn't Fallout. That's totally fine. Go ahead and I hope the product turns out really well because I do enjoy me some cRPG fun and your game looks like it has potential so I hope my next review will be far less negative. But why even have any reference towards Fallout in the description? If you want it to be a game on its own merits then why do you have to reference a game that it isn't trying to ape? Sell/market it on its own merits and drop the reference to Fallout. Cause otherwise it comes across as nothing but a cheap marketing tactic, trying to lure in a crowd who's game yours isn't trying to imitate.

    At least that's how I feel about it.

    But whatever, I'm not the arbiter of moral marketing. Do as you will. I look forward to seeing the final product.


    As to dogs. It's just a pet peeve of mine. I get that dogs are a good companion to have around you in certain settings and because we've domesticated them why should they be ignored? I get it. I still don't like it though as it feels like too many franchises out there have dogs in them for no particular reason and often times the developers have to make up a ton of excuses for why the dog(s) are not just killed off right away when someone swings a broadsword at it with a full hit or when it is shot with a full mag from an assault rifle. It often feels shoehorned in for no other reason than to just have a dog for the sake of having a dog.

    Then again, that dog seems cybernetic, so maybe it is more special than other dogs.

    It's just me overreacting to a pet peeve of mine. It's nothing anyone should really listen to. It's the crazy man ranting loudly to a half-eaten cheeseburger.
    Last edited: Sep 2, 2015
  16. Proletären

    Proletären Moderator

    Mar 15, 2012
    That's so Bethesda and their dogs! Dogmeat in Fallout 3 for no reason at all and now a German Shepard in Fallout 4?! WTF?! Bethesda are the worst. And they are a big developer with professional writers and big budgets etc.

    Krai Mira on the other hand is probably alot better in explaining why there is a dog companion in the game. If done right I would love to have a dog as a companion.
  17. Walpknut

    Walpknut This ghoul has seen it all

    Dec 30, 2010
    I don't get why you are all being so harsh with this game, is a small indie game on greenlight and you are taking it almost like it's a personal insult.
  18. Marionettetc

    Marionettetc Banned

    May 15, 2013
    I never gave my feedback, but the game looks really promising. Being inspired by Fallout means I'm already interested, Dog companions are sick and I absolutely love the user interface.

    The user interface is probably my favorite part of the demo, the icons are big and clear, well defined and look just right in terms of quality. It doesn't look too cheap and cartoonish, and it doesn't look like a rendered mess. The art style so far is great. Visually, the entire game already looks better than Wasteland.

    If your game is going to include authentic turn based combat and full parties, I'm a day one purchase.
    • [Like] [Like] x 1
  19. Mr Fish

    Mr Fish Snug Rubber

    Sep 11, 2010
    I'm harsh with pretty much everything. :V
    But no, ultimately I don't really care. I just tend to start typing and then not be able to stop. And eventually I end up with a huge ass post that I don't want to delete because of the amount of effort I put into it and I just say "fuck it" and post it. I really don't care all that much, it's just that I have problems with knowing when to stop typing.

    It's a bad habit I picked up on the Bethesda forums when arguing about things there. I wanted each first post in a thread to be as informative as possible and cover as many facets as it could because I wanted to make an argument, no matter how trivial it was, as clear and as informative as possible.

    And like I said, I like to nitpick. It's just that whereas others just make a snide little remark on a nitpick I end up looking like a street corner hobo preaching about the end of the world. It's a bad habit that I'm trying to work on. This time, in this thread, I couldn't stop myself. And once the post was out for a few hours and I re-read it I felt like "some have already read this post, so it's not like I can pretend it never happened. Might as well leave it up."

    So, yeah. I don't care. For as much effort as I put into the previous posts and as lengthy and opinionated as they became I don't really care. Only reason I even continued a discussion in the first place is because I don't like to leave people hanging, if they ask me a question then I should answer.

    In short:
    I'm kind of an asshole sometimes.
    I'm trying to work on stop being an asshole all together.
    Didn't quite work here.
  20. Walpknut

    Walpknut This ghoul has seen it all

    Dec 30, 2010
    I think the game looks very promising, certainly looks much better than anything on Greenlight.