Legion Territory Speculation

NMLevesque said:
Well, it's a society built around bondage slavery and war so....
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What? No man, is not. It´s a ARMY built around slavery.

He does not enslave his own citizens. Why do you think they have currency? Where have you ever seen a slave using money? (you can loot money from Legion, but meh, you also can find jet in pre war safes)

NMLevesque said:
Until it comes time to betray and enslave their tribe, as with all others.
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Yes. Tribes. They enslave TRIBES. And shitty towns like Nipton (and for some reason I did not understand, Novac)

1. Not all of legionnaires are slaves
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They are. And they are very proud of that.

"Why would it bother me to enslave these wretches? They have no purpose, no creed, no honor. They live in pitiful squalor, undisciplined, intemperate. To enslave them is to save them - to give them purpose, and virtue."

Cannyon Runner

"We were savages. The Legion raised us up, made us better than what we were."

Lucius
 
I like to think the “society” part will come when Caesar has his Rome, then again I’m biased. As it stands, I’d say @Cobra Commander is right on this count; the Legion is an army, not a society. We haven’t seen them at home so we don’t know what the status quo really is, more simply that Caesar is at the top, and from there the Legion is a militaristic organization that enslaves other tribes and either sells them or uses them as military fodder or both.

Like I said before, Caesar wants his Rome. Once he has it, who knows if he’ll get to work doing what he says or not.
 
AureliusofPhoenix said:
That’s why I worded it as “his own fucked up way”. He didn’t make an empire, he made an army. Talking to Caesar, he states that once he has his Rome the empire will come later. Whether or not he’s lying is anyone’s guess
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Its kinda like Japan when they first realized isolationism isn't a viable way to not get bulldozed over by the west. They started revitalizing their old warrior culture and decided to create an emperor. But instead of making that Emperor a benevolent ruler with restraint, fuck it lets just make him a god who people are happy to fly planes into ships for. You can't really blame Caesar for it, it's not like he was brought up in a college educated society with a liberal worldview. Even the followers of apocalypse would seem like backwards tribals compared to pre war people. He lived his whole life in a culture that is surrounded by the ruins of another culture that was hundreds of years more advanced. Thats like being the skinny guy second in line watching the buff guy who was first in line getting his head sliced off by the Mountain. The fact that Caesar as a character makes any attempt to bring back civilization is respectable, and the fact that it actually seems to be working is even more respectable.
 
@wanamingo89790 couldn’t agree more. People love to see Caesar and his Legion as savages, but they are imo the best chance for stability in the wasteland. Then again, as you can probably tell from my name and profile pic, I’m very biased.
 
AureliusofPhoenix said:
@wanamingo89790 couldn’t agree more. People love to see Caesar and his Legion as savages, but they are imo the best chance for stability in the wasteland. Then again, as you can probably tell from my name and profile pic, I’m very biased.
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this is honestly what makes new vegas so good, the lore fits so well together you could talk about this stuff for hours and at no point mention the fact that its all in a fictional world. Even if there are some parts of the factions that seem illogical they can just be explained away as the factions themselves being illogical rather than the creator gods of this fictional universe tryna make some easy caps. Thanks for the welcome btw.
 
Don’t mention it man.

And exactly; there’s nothing in NV that sticks out as ridiculous; Beth tried to follow suit with the Civil War questline in Skyrim, which was two dimensional but also the best part of the game.

As for my views on the Legion, I feel that Caesar is a damn smart man; hell, I know he is. It’s why I put my faith in his Legion. People act like it’ll collapse when he’s gone, but that’s becauee people underestimate the Legion as nothing more than a group of raiders. The Legion as I see it is a lot like the Confederate States of America, with Caesar serving as both General Lee and Jefferson Davis. He’s a political and military genius rolled into one, who used his knowledge of history to create a cohesive military dictatorship that provides opportunity for those tribals who otherwise would never rise above living in hovels, fighting for the sake of fighting. Caesar offers a chance at a greater cause, and the ability to contribute to what he plans to make the next great society. Even if you hate him, you have to admit that Edward Sallow towers above his opponents intellectually, except for House. People forget that technology doesn’t = intelligence. The Native Americans were smart, but not as advanced as the European settlers. That didn’t make them stupid. The Legion isn’t dumb because they don’t rely on tech like their rivals in the NCR. People need to realize that.
 
AureliusofPhoenix said:
Don’t mention it man.

And exactly; there’s nothing in NV that sticks out as ridiculous; Beth tried to follow suit with the Civil War questline in Skyrim, which was two dimensional but also the best part of the game.

As for my views on the Legion, I feel that Caesar is a damn smart man; hell, I know he is. It’s why I put my faith in his Legion. People act like it’ll collapse when he’s gone, but that’s becauee people underestimate the Legion as nothing more than a group of raiders. The Legion as I see it is a lot like the Confederate States of America, with Caesar serving as both General Lee and Jefferson Davis. He’s a political and military genius rolled into one, who used his knowledge of history to create a cohesive military dictatorship that provides opportunity for those tribals who otherwise would never rise above living in hovels, fighting for the sake of fighting. Caesar offers a chance at a greater cause, and the ability to contribute to what he plans to make the next great society. Even if you hate him, you have to admit that Edward Sallow towers above his opponents intellectually, except for House. People forget that technology doesn’t = intelligence. The Native Americans were smart, but not as advanced as the European settlers. That didn’t make them stupid. The Legion isn’t dumb because they don’t rely on tech like their rivals in the NCR. People need to realize that.
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Agreed, compared to anyone in the NCR Caesar is miles ahead in brain power. One of my favourite parts of new vegas was dialogue with Caesar. To me the ncr is just boring and the fact that their society is slowly breaking down makes fighting for them feel like fighting for a lost cause. I would be cool with the legion if it wasn't for the fact that they have no problem with mass slaughter, and take themselves too seriously. I have this idea in my head for a heart of darkness style mod where you're commisioned by one of the caravans, probably water merchants, to make contact with a former trading partner and overseer of a vault way up the colorado river who they'd lost contact with during Caesars conquest. It would take you through legion territory and you'd see all kinds of fucked shit including: Blood Meridian like scalpers hired by the legion to hunt tribals, a starving group of NCR soldiers hold up in a fort under seige, and strange wasteland forms of entertainment. If you have any ideas shoot me a message, not like theres a real chance of making something like that considering that I haven't picked up the geck in months, but its fun to speculate.
 
Honestly if I come up with anything I’ll hit you up; it sounds like a really really cool idea and I’d hate for it to die, ya know?
 
Cobra Commander said:
What? No man, is not. It´s a ARMY built around slavery.

He does not enslave his own citizens. Why do you think they have currency? Where have you ever seen a slave using money? (you can loot money from Legion, but meh, you also can find jet in pre war safes)
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That there are citizens doesn't mean it's not built around slavery. Ancient Greece, Ancient Rome, both built around slavery, both had citizens.

Cobra Commander said:
Yes. Tribes. They enslave TRIBES. And shitty towns like Nipton (and for some reason I did not understand, Novac)
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...was there a point here or something? Setting aside that every faction is a tribe to them, as explained by Joshua Graham, how does this change anything I said?

Cobra Commander said:
They are. And they are very proud of that.
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You clipped out who said the quote you responded to with this btw.
 
NMLevesque said:
Their society is run by the military. They have a military government (stratocracy). It's not a meaningful distinction.
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As it stands, fair enough. Though Caesar does speak of wanting to reform his society once he has his Rome. Only question from there is whether you believe him, I suppose.
 
CT Phipps said:
There's even deeper issues as Caesar doesn't have any actual people who can serve as his heirs. He's claimed to b a God and no one else can replace him.
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I'm not sure of that. If you kill Caesar with Boone, he clearly says that in the end, it doesn't change much, because Caesar had a succession line ready. He could have children waiting for him at Flagstaff, or a designated heir. We don't know anything more, because the game wasn't focused on the inside politics of the legion, but we know that there is "someone" if Caesar dies. And not necessarely Lanius, who seems to stay at the same rank wether Caesar lives or dies.
 
I just assume Lucius takes control but he has nothing behind him other than 'no one punched him out of his place'. Lanius is fine with it because Lucius knows what Caesar wanted immediately. Vulpes, if still alive, might have some qualms. But I have the feeling that the line of succession doesn't matter.

Caesar is supposed to be a demi-god, the son of Mars, and now he dies. Either by a cowardly attack or a Brain Tumor or a surgery. The more fanatical elements in his Legion would lose a bit of themselves and gain more human-motivated ideas such as greed or taking their nice sliver of the Legion for themselves, and so on and so on.

While they might not revert back to their old tribes, they will splinter into Roman-inspired tribes no matter what happens. Lucius and Lanius might hold out for a year or two and the Legion will have some inflation if they win the Mojave, but will crumble beyond that.
 
@Eshanas I can see your logic, but I like to think the idealism of the Legion will elevate them above being just a cult of personality.
 
Eshanas said:
I just assume Lucius takes control but he has nothing behind him other than 'no one punched him out of his place'. Lanius is fine with it because Lucius knows what Caesar wanted immediately. Vulpes, if still alive, might have some qualms. But I have the feeling that the line of succession doesn't matter.

Caesar is supposed to be a demi-god, the son of Mars, and now he dies. Either by a cowardly attack or a Brain Tumor or a surgery. The more fanatical elements in his Legion would lose a bit of themselves and gain more human-motivated ideas such as greed or taking their nice sliver of the Legion for themselves, and so on and so on.

While they might not revert back to their old tribes, they will splinter into Roman-inspired tribes no matter what happens. Lucius and Lanius might hold out for a year or two and the Legion will have some inflation if they win the Mojave, but will crumble beyond that.
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Unless the successor was choosen by the self crowned god-king himself, with the support of whatever group holds the cult of mars together (the twin mothers, maybe?). Which is possible. It wouldn't prevent the ambitions of the potential usurpers, but in the hearts of the common legionaries, that would ensure a continuity in their faith.
 
It's weird that Boone is the only one to mention this line of succession. Why of all people does he know about this? Ulysses didn't seem it was worth mentioning. Neither did Joshua Graham, and they were both high up.
 
NMLevesque said:
It's weird that Boone is the only one to mention this line of succession. Why of all people does he know about this? Ulysses didn't seem it was worth mentioning. Neither did Joshua Graham, and they were both high up.
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He heard it from NCR intel and has basically fantasized for months about killing Legion, lots of Legion. He probably concocted a whole fantasy in his head that we can make come true.
 
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