Leonard interview@DAC

[Tannhauser]

Err... just have to say that it's Troika.

See?

 

[Dixie_Rebel]

I do not see why there is such hostility towards Bethesda. Bethesda got the rights to Fallout 3 fair and square. If you are mad because Troika did not get the license then complain to them. I have not liked any of Troika's games so far anyway. I think Interplay is at fault for this situation and not Troika nor Bethesda. Troika had the opportunity to buy the license but did not have the funds, the publisher sucks, etc. I think we should all sit back, relax, and see how Bethesda does. If Bethesda makes a crappy Fallout 3 THEN is the time to complain about it and not buy the game. Now is DEFINITELY not the time to debate or complain about the situation. BIS was THE group to do Fallout 3 and Interplay failed them and us as the Fallout community. Complaint to Interplay instead of complaining about a developer that has not had the chance to prove itself nor has it even started the game. I want to see the Fallout community grow and if that means giving Bethesda a chance then so be it. We are all about the community are we not?

Thank you and goodnight.

 

[Roshambo]

I do not see why there is such hostility towards Bethesda. Bethesda got the rights to Fallout 3 fair and square. If you are mad because Troika did not get the license then complain to them.

Funny that Bethesda would want the rights over people who have displayed more inclination to develop towards the basic fundamentals of the Fallout universe. There are two distinct options I have come to conclude that arise from the last minute stretch by Bethesda in purchasing the rights; one is that they do wish to try and make a game faithful to the Fallout series; the other is that they want to do it for reasons unrelated to the design of the game.

Given that the last couple of times what was promised wasn't quite delivered, what would you expect people's response to this would be? Jubilation, because they get to see "Fallout ++;"? Obviously, you've not been around the gaming industry for long.

I have not liked any of Troika's games so far anyway.

Irrelevant; logic akin to Alexander the Great having Infinite Arms.

I think Interplay is at fault for this situation and not Troika nor Bethesda. Troika had the opportunity to buy the license but did not have the funds, the publisher sucks, etc.

Yes, Interplay is "living" on a warped man's greed and dishonesty. That doesn't mean that it is really excusable for someone to snake a license out from under those who are the spiritual fathers of the Fallout setting and who also develop much like a P&P RPG. You know, just one of many aspects of what Fallout was intended to be.

I think we should all sit back, relax, and see how Bethesda does. If Bethesda makes a crappy Fallout 3 THEN is the time to complain about it and not buy the game. Now is DEFINITELY not the time to debate or complain about the situation.

Spoken like a true cattle consumer whore. By that time, the publisher has your money and really doesn't give a shit about you other than if you'll buy an expansion pack. Maybe, with word of mouth, sales will go down. However, at that point and with like Interplay, the publishers want to pass the buck onto the fans in that case, and the license could very well be dead and over with. Have you seriously thought what would happen in Bethesda's development priority when Fallout becomes less important to work on because the fans panned the previous installment? Word of mouth is the only thing you have then, and you're asking for the blame at that point, versus raising valid concerns from the beginning like people who understand game development cycles.

THAT IS IT. The industry as a whole does NOT give a shit about your concerns after they have your money. I'll give Bethesda a nod for their work, the construction kit is nice in allowing everyone to make mods with misspelt trademarked names, but there are still a number of gaps seen in their development style that just do not work for Fallout.

Your suggestion will be duly printed out and wiped with my ass. If you think that nobody has a right to be concerned after previous pig in a pokes delivered with the name "Fallout" on them, then you need to get off of these forums before I pull out the cluex4. I promise, it will not be pretty.

BIS was THE group to do Fallout 3 and Interplay failed them and us as the Fallout community.

What, with the Monty Python jokes? The material that had questionable presence in the setting? There were several great additions to the Fallout universe if they were brought to light, but others completely disregarded the setting and some basic fundamentals of Fiction styles. Especially the rule about not changing the tone of the setting too far or passing over the Fiction - Reality line when it had been set previously. Real world guns instead of blasters for the Storm Troopers in Episode VI, for an excellent parallel.

Complaint to Interplay instead of complaining about a developer that has not had the chance to prove itself nor has it even started the game.

Yet they are going to buy a license without having any previous intents upon it, despite the obvious stigma attached to said license and the haunts of previous failures...

Come ON, kid. I'm trying to give them the benefit of the doubt here. I would like to believe that most people aren't dishonest and/or "gaming college" idiots. I know that is a rather vicious poke, but we've had enough licenses changing hands in the gaming industry that we should know what to expect. We are still waiting for this to prove that is is not the norm.

That is precisely what you fail to comprehend. You're a decade too green to have that kind of attitude.

I want to see the Fallout community grow and if that means giving Bethesda a chance then so be it. We are all about the community are we not?

I'm sorry....what did you say? All I distinctly heard was "Moo."

Thank you and goodnight.

That was your only warning.

 

[Dixie_Rebel]

Easy, easy..... I agree with most of what you said but can you blame me for being optimistic? I am trying to positive. I am just hoping for a good Fallout 3.

STOP YELLING AT ME! *runs and hides in the corner*

What if the game turns out to be awesome?

That was your only warning.

For what?

EDIT: You also said that to Ctrlaltbackspace. I hope you are not serious because I said something about Fallout 3 that you did not agree with. Please be nice.

 

[Bradylama]

What if the game turns out to be awesome?

Then it'll be a good game and several people will be happy. This is not, however, a guarantee.

Are you saying that people shouldn't be concerned considering history?

This is like saying that Communism will be a good idea because "It just might work this time."

 

[Fatty Lumpkin]

I'm still on the fence about the Bethesda thing. I may be totally off base but I think its going take someone with either deep pockets or nothing to lose to produce a "Mature" rated game that Fallout needs to be. I don't think Troika is either of these. They may put mature content in initially but I have a feeling when their publisher leans on them they'll take it out just like they did in ToEE.

Bethesda might do this also, but my opinion is that the odds are better at Bethesda being able to afford to take that chance. You could argue that Bethesda removed mature material from Morrowind, and you'd be right, but they have their "cash cow" now and can afford to take chances.

Of course mature content is only one aspect of the game, but in my eyes you can't have a Fallout game without it. If it comes out with a "Teen" rating my money is staying in my pocket.

 

[Gnidrologist]

I am trying to positive.

Better do not. Too much positiveness will make Beth loose their watchfullness.

I am just hoping for a good Fallout 3.

As some say, hope is a last resort for fools. I don't want to be one. Let's espect worse, then maybe we'll be pleasently surprised afterwards.
Just a thought.

And sorry, for mistyping. Yes it's Troika, Troiiika, T R O I K A. Is that better?

 

[Frog]

Isn't it funny ? I watched Gnidrologist post and when answered I typed Troyka as well without realising I make typo


Now more ontopic. Sure trust credit is better then criticless optimism but why to waste it on expecting the worse. I guess uncreative criticism is as bad as criticless optimism.

 

[Dixie_Rebel]

I am just trying to be optimistic. For example, I hope there is going to be a Mad Max 4 even though there probably will not be one. HAHAHAHA!

lol

 

[Roshambo]

Easy, easy..... I agree with most of what you said but can you blame me for being optimistic? I am trying to positive. I am just hoping for a good Fallout 3.

"Being optomistic" has nothing to do with much of the garbage you posted.

We do not accept the media whore mentality here.

STOP YELLING AT ME! *runs and hides in the corner*

Then stop posting stupid shit that reeks of flamebait.

What if the game turns out to be awesome?

If you immediately assume a game will be great, you're in for continuous disappointment. I set my expectations much lower, but point out the potential problem areas for the development and where things do not fit. I did the same for FOT and other games.

What you did was akin to the naive people gushing over UXO, and that turned into a bust because it was all media whoring of the title. The devs found out how much of it was due to the publishing rags cashing in on the name, when their UXO event was dead compared to most UO get-togethers. The market disinterest, especially in how they were skullfucking the setting, became so obvious that even the idiots responsible for the title couldn't excuse the scam anymore.

The funny thing to note is that I like being proven wrong with my estimation in regards to how a game turns out, and when I am proven wrong, I will admit so. So far, the number of times I've been right is far more disappointing. Both FOT and FOS turned out exactly as I predicted in some form; I do hope that Bethesda's design isn't.

Unfortunately, I've hardly had the luxury of being proven wrong as of recent.

That was your only warning.

For what?

You didn't pay attention the first time? I do hate repeating myself...

EDIT: You also said that to Ctrlaltbackspace. I hope you are not serious because I said something about Fallout 3 that you did not agree with. Please be nice.

It wasn't about disagreement. It was about posting some seriously bullshit things, and now trying to equate them with "optomism". Maybe that's what they call ignorance where you're from, but the garbage akin to saying that people should only voice concerns after the fact...no. We are not cattle consumers and we've been screwed over twice before. Maybe you enjoy the state of the game industry, the mass of eveything being made into uninspired clones of trendy material, marketing depts causing design flaws by insisting that games have X feature because it's trendy (which later compromises the game's design), but don't try to chastize those of us who do know how the industry works. We're trying to get it so that it DOESN'T SUCK, or were you too busy proving your ignorance about the game industry to notice?

The fans have every right to be highly skeptical about Bethesda developing future Fallout sequels, especially in regards to presentation style. I have pointed this out at length before, and a good number of reasons why. Apparently, you didn't read those discussions though they weren't that long ago and can be found easily. It stands to reason that this would hardly be the first time we've spoken about this subject, especially given that the original topic is about a Boyarsky interview and not about Bethesda having the rights to Fallout.

I'm still on the fence about the Bethesda thing. I may be totally off base but I think its going take someone with either deep pockets or nothing to lose to produce a "Mature" rated game that Fallout needs to be. I don't think Troika is either of these. They may put mature content in initially but I have a feeling when their publisher leans on them they'll take it out just like they did in ToEE.

Holy shit, more ignorance. It was done because Hasbro neutered the license and D&D settings, to make it more "marketable to all ages". Hasbro has a very long history of being rich, ignorant twats who have absolutely no clue what to do with properties they have bought. They're like the underpants gnomes from South Park. They buy things out from under those who have a history of working better on them, but then have no fucking clue how they're going to make money from it until it dies.

Of course, I could point to how people LIKE the possibility of playing the bad guy, which is what drew them into Fallout, GTA, and other games that do allow the player to wage destruction upon the setting. It isn't "risky" unless you're BioWare, who really don't know how to allow for much depth in their games anyways. it is now a selling point and something considered trendy enough for most marketing morons to understand, and it's inherent to the setting. So therefore it would be easier to push.

Am I the only one in this discussion who has been around enough to bother thinking things through? No, I take that back. For the gruff I give him in other topics, Bradylama has it spot-on here. A few others do to.

 

[Ashmo]

:: rubs eyes and yawns ::

Some people never get tired of posting bullshit and some people never get tired of pointing that bullshit out as such, eh?

Good thing some people still got the time and endurance to take out the trash.

 

[Fatty Lumpkin]

I'm still on the fence about the Bethesda thing. I may be totally off base but I think its going take someone with either deep pockets or nothing to lose to produce a "Mature" rated game that Fallout needs to be. I don't think Troika is either of these. They may put mature content in initially but I have a feeling when their publisher leans on them they'll take it out just like they did in ToEE.

Holy shit, more ignorance. It was done because Hasbro neutered the license and D&D settings, to make it more "marketable to all ages". Hasbro has a very long history of being rich, ignorant twats who have absolutely no clue what to do with properties they have bought. They're like the underpants gnomes from South Park. They buy things out from under those who have a history of working better on them, but then have no fucking clue how they're going to make money from it until it dies.

And you have conclusive proof this won't happen with their current publisher? They've already stated its going to be an uphill battle just to get turn-based combat in the game, imagine the brick the suits are going to shit when they learn a big fat "Mature" label is going to find its way onto the cover of their merchandise. What's going to happen then? How many more features are they going to have to concede to get their game through the door?

To me, Troika comes across as an awesome group of designers with either no backbone or no ledge to stand on when it comes to dealing with their publishers. First the ToEE concessions, then they let Fallout slip through their fingers because their publisher wouldn't fork over the dough. These are the facts that I know. I agree I am "ignorant" beyond this, as you pointed out.

 

[Roshambo]

And you have conclusive proof this won't happen with their current publisher?

Other than it's a fact that THEY HAD NO CHOICE when it came to removing material from ToEE, and which is also partly why BG3 never came out, you need to take some time and catch up on the last few months since you've watered your clue.

They've already stated its going to be an uphill battle just to get turn-based combat in the game, imagine the brick the suits are going to shit when they learn a big fat "Mature" label is going to find its way onto the cover of their merchandise. What's going to happen then? How many more features are they going to have to concede to get their game through the door?

Either you can read what I wrote or you can leave this topic now. I pointed out the precise difference between TB being considered unfavorable by publishers and why a Mature label isn't so unheard of now. I'm not going to repeat myself.

 

[Dixie_Rebel]

Roshambo, I was not "flaimbaiting" so stop flaming me. I was trying to be nice and positive. I am not going to get banned for stupid shit my first two days back, I do not think it is worth it. I think you have to much time on your hands. Roshambo, it is not worth even talking to you let alone having a nice calm conversation. Just leave me alone and I will do the same to you, ok? I did not mean any harm to you nor the forum.

 

[Gnidrologist]

Just leave me alone and I will do the same to you, ok? I did not mean any harm to you nor the forum.

For Roshambo to leave you alone?! Hmm, have you noticed any pigs flying around your house recently?

 

[Dixie_Rebel]

Just leave me alone and I will do the same to you, ok? I did not mean any harm to you nor the forum.

For Roshambo to leave you alone?! Hmm, have you noticed any pigs flying around your house recently?

I do not any trouble, is that to much to ask? I want things to be friendly and I want to enjoy myself here.

 

[SuAside]

Rosh is the Bastard Operator from Vault 13 (and he kinda owns NMA as well). He has very strong views about most things concerning the gaming industry and Fallout. He is not afraid to voice those views agressively.

When you get to know em you actually look forward to his next rant (I'm also looking forward to his articles). Anyhow, if you really don't like em, dont be an ass and you'll be fine. However continue to voice stupid ideas (FPS fallout, FooL,...), misplaced overoptimism and so on, you will probably end up being saved by Rosh's Witless Protection Program.

 

[Briosafreak]

I think Dixie_Rebel got the message, no need to reinforce it. Let`s move on people.

 

[SuAside]

didnt mean anything by it, briosa. just stating the facts...

 

[Fatty Lumpkin]

They've already stated its going to be an uphill battle just to get turn-based combat in the game, imagine the brick the suits are going to shit when they learn a big fat "Mature" label is going to find its way onto the cover of their merchandise. What's going to happen then? How many more features are they going to have to concede to get their game through the door?

Either you can read what I wrote or you can leave this topic now. I pointed out the precise difference between TB being considered unfavorable by publishers and why a Mature label isn't so unheard of now. I'm not going to repeat myself.

Playing an evil character and having a "Mature" rating are two different issues, they just weren't in ToEE. Playing a bad guy is trendy, having a "Mature" label on the game, thus keeping it off alot of shelves, is something many publisher's won't do. I can't count the number of times I have heard this as an excuse for why some features don't make it into a game. GTA got away with it using a massive marketing campaign as well as a heap of bad publicity. Well, no publicity is bad publicity.

Has their new publisher agreed to a "Mature" label? Until they do I will very much doubt they will allow it. (I DID notice Vampire had an age verification on the main website.....a glimmer of hope perhaps?)

And you have conclusive proof this won't happen with their current publisher?

Other than it's a fact that THEY HAD NO CHOICE when it came to removing material from ToEE, and which is also partly why BG3 never came out, you need to take some time and catch up on the last few months since you've watered your clue.

Doesn't answer the question. What proof do we have that *this* publisher will give them a choice? This is what concerns me.

Look...I know two things about their current publisher relationship.
1. They balked at the Fallout license
2. They balked at turn-based combat

If you know something about this publisher that leads you to believe they'll give Troika the freedom to create the game they want to create, I'll happily drop this. I see two warning signs that the grass is not all that greener on this side of the fence. Granted, I have not followed the Bloodlines developments (Vampires don't interest me) so maybe there's something there I missed.

P.S. BG3 has been announced, or at least some official talk was reported in some gaming magazine. There are a few discussions about it at Planet Baldur's Gate. I haven't followed it too closely, though. I think its some kind of prequel.

I dunno, does my clue need more water?