Lets be fair...

A

Alesia

It Wandered In From the Wastes
Since there's a similar topic up in the FO:3 forum, how about we level the playing field with the logical inconsistencies of FO:NV.

1.) A point blank head wound is only a 50/50 survival shot with modern medicine, yet you survive with some Med-X, tweezers, and old gauze in a shack.

2.) A germaphobe that hasn't talked to anyone in 200 years suddenly decides to let you in just because you have his chip? Why not have the robots dispense payment and collect the item? If he wants you as a protoge' why not use the robots as a go between?

3.) At The Fort Caeser wants you to destroy the bunker because he doesn't want his men knowing what's in there. Why not just dispose of you after it's done and have his legionaries fulfill the rest of the Legion quest line, or in my case (female character) enslave them? Certainly he would be stupid to let a relatively unknown agent go back out into the wastes to blab all his secrets.

4.) The NCR seems to immediately trust you just because you walked inside the Lucky 38, again unknown agent during war who could spill all their confidential secrets.

5.) How is Jason Bright and his group surviving? They're locked upstairs with no apparent food or water source except for 4-5 boxes of Fancy Lads in the closet. And what about when they weren't locked in? There doesn't appear to be any crops and the traders don't go up there and the ghouls can't come in to Novac.

6.) How is a bomber that crashed in 1945 still intact? Shouldn't it be a rusted heap of scrap by 2281?
 
1) Its possible though unlikely. See: Phineas Gage

2) You don't meet him directly until you kill him. Besides, the courier is his potential successor/right hand man.

3) True. A man who kills off his most trusted general for one failed battle should not let an outsider who refuses to work for him to live. Then again, he does have a brain tumor...

4) They are desperate, but still...

5) They send out scouts. You see members of the Brotherhood everywhere (although dead).

6) Who said it crashed in 1945? Or that its functional? The boomers had to get it work; they didn't just stick the keys in and call it a day.

EDIT: Disregard that last line; they only get it working if you have the Wild Wasteland trait. Me + Sleep Deprivation + Forum = Bad.
 
1. Because then there would be no game? that's not an inconsistency, your character was just lucky there.
2. To get the Chip you would've done certain actions that means you are an avobe average person for one reason or the other.
3. Caesar is actually acting very irrationaly, his own men are aware of that because of his tumor and surrounding himself only with sycophants he just can't fathom you just not obeying his mighty rule.
4. You got inside a Building that's been sealed for 200 years that houses a rather important figure, they just risk it with you, if you start acting against them they'll just hunt you back.
5. Because they only got there recently to prepare for their journey, at no point is even inferred that they have been living there for years, you actually find dead members of his flock around the map, suggesting a traveling group.
6. It's not intact, they use it along with spare parts in their base to get it working.
 
The bomber should not even be there, it should be completely rusted away, 45 whenever it was, it was still in the 1940's sometime. Funny how as long as the game doesn't end with a 3 it gets defended.
 
The Bomber wans't even in working order, so I don't see how you know how intact it was. Also metal doesn't just disintegrate specially on a military aircraft...
 
What I don't get though, is why the NCR doesn't retake NCR correctional facility. Well, they do, but only if you do quests for the powder gangers...which doesn't make sense, because if you want the NCR to retake the facility you'd most likely be hostile with the powder gangers.

That fact irks me somewhat.
 
Yeah, that is pretty dumb, even if you kill them all and the NCR they don't retake it, the person in charge of that quest wasn't paying attention.
 
Ok, I just had a look at the wiki, and there is no bomber entry under Wild Wasteland. In fact, the wiki seems to suggest that the bomber is a default feature.

Now, I wouldn't really know since I always had Wild Wasteland on, so can someone please confirm this? I'm confused.
 
The Bomber is part of the Boomer's questline, they float it from the bottom of Lake mead, break it into parts with robots and use the parts to ut together a working bomber with the collection of spare parts the Nellis Base has.
 
I meant at the battle of hover dam. The wiki seems to imply that the boomers did, in fact, somehow get a 333 year old rusted relic fully functional. And used it to bomb the crap out of everyone.

I always assumed that it was only part of the Wild Wasteland, but as I only played with the Wild Wasteland trait (why not, its fun!), I can't really determine if the wiki is wrong or not.

Also, if those mini-rockets are so radioactive, then how come Cliff Briscoe, who is next to them for about 12 hours a day, is not affected?
I mean, you can use them for rocket fuel!
 
Yeah they use the bomber in the battle of Hoover Dam.

Also, The room they are in is full of radiation. And we don't know how many years Cliff has, he seems rather unbalanced with those stupid t-rexes.
 
1.) With a 9mm round? totally possible. Not probable, but not an inconsistency or plot hole either.

2.) He does use that big screen as a proxy and being too distant from the courier risks not gaining their trust enough to manipulate them

3.) He thinks you are going to work for him. Even if you tell him you wont he tells you he will have his praetorians tear you limb from limb if you ever refuse a task from him again and leaves it at that.

4.) The NCR sees you as an asset, someone who can get close to a major player in the area and might be able to use for their own goals.


5.) Theres an irradiated water source nearby and you can find remains of their members out pretty far, probably trading scavenged scrap like novac did before the ghouls moved in.

6.) Aluminum doesnt rust. It corrodes, yes, but as aluminum oxide, a very hard material that actually protects the aluminum from further corrosion

I love fallout 3 but its plot holes and inconsistencies really are that bad and that aspect of the game deserves the hatred it gets.


EDIT: just started up fallout nv and made it very clear to caesar that i wasnt going to do what he told me and his praetorians did indeed tear me limb from limb.
 
The only way I can see surviving is if it wasn't a direct hit, more of a graze. We're talking the items standardly found in a civilian first aid kit, not modern real world medical science where it's still 50/50 chance after taking a direct hit to the forehead. Mitchell coming from a vault (did it ever say he was the vault doc? please clarify) he probably knows his shit, but still...
 
Alesia said:
Funny how as long as the game doesn't end with a 3 it gets defended.
Click to expand...

Or, maybe we already had one of these that ran for eight pages straight. I had to dig four pages back to find it again, but in doing so I passed up several other topics critical of New Vegas and its DLCs. It's a lot easier to stick up for NV's logic because, in most cases, there's actually some logic to defend, but even in the "What We Learned From Fallout 3" thread, points tend to get clarified or defended when they reasonably can be.

As far as the courier's miraculous survival-- it's just that, miraculous. Everyone in the game is amazed by it. It's part of the reason your character is watched with such interest by the powers that be. Stranger things have happened in real life, and we can probably assume that Doc Mitchell was a trained vault doc from his knowledge of medical practice and terminology, the fact that it's the profession he chose to settle into after leaving the vault, and the fact that he managed to save your life. The reasoning's a bit circular, but there are enough proximal factors to shore it up.
 
You do realise that Lake Mead is freshwater, right? If it crashed in the atlantic, it'd be rusted to hell and back, but fresh water does not destroy metal like salt water. Fuck, the titantic is still down at the bottom of the fucking atlantic. And that's assuming the plane is made out of steel and not aluminum. Duuuuuuuuh.

Caesar also keeps you around because you're goddamn awesome. You survive a gunshot wound, track the man responsible for it across the majority of California and/or Nevada, and if you need, although way into Colorado. That's reason enough to keep you around as a 'free agent.

Ditto the NCR. And house. All of the factions realize that bullet gifted you with the ability to Get Shit Done.

People survive bullets to the head in modern/and older times. clearly, the bullet didn't go through and through your head, but bounced off your skull. Maybe Benny slapped the trigger hard and you were mostly grazed and just unconscious.
 
1. Definitely possible. The Courier was very lucky, but that's not a logical gap.

2. House wants to manipulate you, rather hard to gain your trust if he doesn't even invite you to his tower. Now, you could say that his defenses while inside are just pathetic, but him letting you in doesn't defy logic.

3. Yeah, that's honestly dumb, along with sending you there in the first place (just pick some veteran legionary and kill them afterwards, not like they will protest anyhow). You could rationalize that his tumor makes him take bad decisions, but that's a bit of a cop out.

4. You proved you can get shit done, and NCR desperately need people like you. It's not like they immediately give you the keys to Bear Force One either, the Ambassador makes sure you have NCR interests at heart before sending you to Moore.

5. They travel all over the Mojave (see the caves where you find their corpses). Admitedly I find the whole Bright Brotherhood a bit silly, but it's not illogical.

6. It's a lake, plus the plane might be made of aluminium. And they only use spare parts
 
Forgot to address the Bright Brotherhood. I'd say their surviving the Nightkin siege could be chalked up to their being ghouls, with the extreme biological hardiness that entails, but in fairness to the OP I don't remember whether they said how long the siege had been going on, so it's possible that it's a bit of a logical stretch.

Given the facts at hand, though, I think a pretty logical justification for the situation would be that the minor amount of supplies they have (5 fancy lads in a closet, I believe you already noted) were simply what was left after a long period of confinement.
 
Alesia said:
Since there's a similar topic up in the FO:3 forum, how about we level the playing field with the logical inconsistencies of FO:NV.

1.) A point blank head wound is only a 50/50 survival shot with modern medicine, yet you survive with some Med-X, tweezers, and old gauze in a shack.

2.) A germaphobe that hasn't talked to anyone in 200 years suddenly decides to let you in just because you have his chip? Why not have the robots dispense payment and collect the item? If he wants you as a protoge' why not use the robots as a go between?

3.) At The Fort Caeser wants you to destroy the bunker because he doesn't want his men knowing what's in there. Why not just dispose of you after it's done and have his legionaries fulfill the rest of the Legion quest line, or in my case (female character) enslave them? Certainly he would be stupid to let a relatively unknown agent go back out into the wastes to blab all his secrets.

4.) The NCR seems to immediately trust you just because you walked inside the Lucky 38, again unknown agent during war who could spill all their confidential secrets.

5.) How is Jason Bright and his group surviving? They're locked upstairs with no apparent food or water source except for 4-5 boxes of Fancy Lads in the closet. And what about when they weren't locked in? There doesn't appear to be any crops and the traders don't go up there and the ghouls can't come in to Novac.

6.) How is a bomber that crashed in 1945 still intact? Shouldn't it be a rusted heap of scrap by 2281?
Click to expand...

I'd disregard point 1 because is not NV specific, it is kind of general for the series.
I agree with everything else.

CthuluIsSpy said:
2) You don't meet him directly until you kill him. Besides, the courier is his potential successor/right hand man.
Click to expand...

I don't agree with the thing about successor. I always get the impression House expects to live forever.

Wintermind said:
Caesar also keeps you around because you're goddamn awesome. You survive a gunshot wound, track the man responsible for it across the majority of California and/or Nevada, and if you need, although way into Colorado. That's reason enough to keep you around as a 'free agent.
Click to expand...
About that, we have all the idea of the burned man to kind of scare his troops. Having another special case of survival in his side might help legionaries morale.
 
Oppen said:
Alesia said:
Since there's a similar topic up in the FO:3 forum, how about we level the playing field with the logical inconsistencies of FO:NV.

1.) A point blank head wound is only a 50/50 survival shot with modern medicine, yet you survive with some Med-X, tweezers, and old gauze in a shack.

2.) A germaphobe that hasn't talked to anyone in 200 years suddenly decides to let you in just because you have his chip? Why not have the robots dispense payment and collect the item? If he wants you as a protoge' why not use the robots as a go between?

3.) At The Fort Caeser wants you to destroy the bunker because he doesn't want his men knowing what's in there. Why not just dispose of you after it's done and have his legionaries fulfill the rest of the Legion quest line, or in my case (female character) enslave them? Certainly he would be stupid to let a relatively unknown agent go back out into the wastes to blab all his secrets.

4.) The NCR seems to immediately trust you just because you walked inside the Lucky 38, again unknown agent during war who could spill all their confidential secrets.

5.) How is Jason Bright and his group surviving? They're locked upstairs with no apparent food or water source except for 4-5 boxes of Fancy Lads in the closet. And what about when they weren't locked in? There doesn't appear to be any crops and the traders don't go up there and the ghouls can't come in to Novac.

6.) How is a bomber that crashed in 1945 still intact? Shouldn't it be a rusted heap of scrap by 2281?
Click to expand...

I'd disregard point 1 because is not NV specific, it is kind of general for the series.
I agree with everything else.

CthuluIsSpy said:
2) You don't meet him directly until you kill him. Besides, the courier is his potential successor/right hand man.
Click to expand...

I don't agree with the thing about successor. I always get the impression House expects to live forever.
/quote]

Ok, maybe not a successor per se, but you do become his right hand man.
Click to expand...
 
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