Mafia: boring popamole or brilliant driving sim?

[Brother None]

First review (PC Zone) gave it an 80%. Words "extreme linearity" and "10 hours" were tossed as complaints. Everything else, praised. Hypothesis: reviewer did not play Mafia 1.

Because "extreme linearity" was a "feature" in Mafia 1? coz it sure bored the heck out of me with its vapid combination of an open world and extremely linear mission-gameplay.

The English dubbing was superb

For superb try "shit". Getting some B-list actors from the Sopranos just so you can say "with voices from the Sopranos" does not a well-voiced game make.

EDIT: I know this game has a cult following and Ratty is daft enough to call it "flawless", and that people keep comparing it to GTA despite the fact that it obviously is not (one is a sandbox game in an open world, one is a linear TPS in an open world, the difference is pretty major), and I know it has a cult following, what I find hard is to figure out why. It's got a good story and atmosphere, but it's not a very good game. I can only pin it on GTA-ennui, and thus trying to hop onto a game that is not GTA but still gets confused for it.

 

[PainlessDocM]

Nicely phrased Brother None.

 

[SkuLL]

The English dubbing was superb

For superb try "shit". Getting some B-list actors from the Sopranos just so you can say "with voices from the Sopranos" does not a well-voiced game make.

Damn, it's been a long time since I played it. I hope you're wrong, but I guess my memory failed me there!

Never watched the Sopranos, either

 

[Mettle]

Because "extreme linearity" was a "feature" in Mafia 1? coz it sure bored the heck out of me with its vapid combination of an open world and extremely linear mission-gameplay.

Can't say that I would'nt have minded less linear missions, but overall the presentation was well done enough for me to get past that bit.

EDIT: I know this game has a cult following and Ratty is daft enough to call it "flawless", and that people keep comparing it to GTA despite the fact that it obviously is not (one is a sandbox game in an open world, one is a linear TPS in an open world, the difference is pretty major), and I know it has a cult following, what I find hard is to figure out why. It's got a good story and atmosphere, but it's not a very good game. I can only pin it on GTA-ennui, and thus trying to hop onto a game that is not GTA but still gets confused for it.

Would'nt dare to call the game flawless, in the same way I would'nt call Fallout flawless, but were pretty damn solid games to me. Comparing it to GTA is obvious, since both games are similar at first glance and on the surface.
For me it was the atmosphere that mostly got me hooked on the game itself, I really liked the feeling I got and even cared somewhat for Tommy, something I never did for the GTA characters - humor aside I did'nt really like them.

I loved for instance how the world, while open, had police that reacted to your fucking about instead of not giving a shit aslong as you don't run someone over or scratch their paintjob. I loved the carhandling, that while I'm no expert, felt believable.

Did not know about the sopranos actors, but then again, I never saw that show.

Not saying the GTA games are bad in any way, just that I prefer Mafia's more down to earth feel myself.

 

[Brother None]

Not saying the GTA games are bad in any way, just that I prefer Mafia's more down to earth feel myself.

This needs to stop. GTA and Mafia are not in the same genre. GTA as a sandbox game is closer to Assassin's Creed than it is to Mafia. Mafia, meanwhile, is a story-driven TPS, and thus a close cousin to - say - Max Payne. The fact that it tries to bore you out of your skull by forcing you to drive from point A to point B in fairly gameplay-less sequences doesn't automagically relate it to the GTA.

People need to drop the tendency to compare the two, it makes no fucking sense. Mafia's strength lies in being a story-driven TPS, so why compare it to something GTA never tries to do (until GTA IV, somewhat). As a story-driven TPS, it's markedly inferior to Max Payne.

 

[Mettle]

This needs to stop. GTA and Mafia are not in the same genre. GTA as a sandbox game is closer to Assassin's Creed than it is to Mafia. Mafia, meanwhile, is a story-driven TPS, and thus a close cousin to - say - Max Payne. The fact that it tries to bore you out of your skull by forcing you to drive from point A to point B in fairly gameplay-less sequences doesn't automagically relate it to the GTA.

People need to drop the tendency to compare the two, it makes no fucking sense. Mafia's strength lies in being a story-driven TPS, so why compare it to something GTA never tries to do (until GTA IV, somewhat). As a story-driven TPS, it's markedly inferior to Max Payne.

Depends on how you yourself classify the games I guess, both are TPS, both have an open world with cars.
While one is storydriven and the other is... faffing about driven, their elements line up to the story point well enough that a comparison is valid I reckon.

 

[Brother None]

Depends on how you yourself classify the games I guess, both are TPS, both have an open world with cars.
While one is storydriven and the other is... faffing about driven, their elements line up to the story point well enough that a comparison is valid I reckon.

Rationally there should be no question that they are different genres. GTA is a sandbox game, Mafia is not.
Sandbox or "faffing about" means I can explore every nook and cranny of the map and find new random items, cars, quests, challenges and the like. GTA IV did less of this in favour of more story, and is thus closer to Mafia than any other GTA.

Mafia completely constricts you. You can't even visit your garage buddy except when the game tells you to. You can't do any mission out of sequence. You can't steal cars except in its linear order. There is absolutely no point to exploring the open world, it is just a map given to drive you from mission to mission.

I understand the confusion somewhat because both take place in an open map and feature driving, but it doesn't hold up to scrutiny. In actual gameplay, if you look beyond the surface, there is no logical reason to claim Mafia is closer to GTA than it is to Max Payne. And again, I'd say it's an inferior story-driven TPS to Max Payne, especially in its shooting action.

 

[Mettle]

Rationally there should be no question that they are different genres. GTA is a sandbox game, Mafia is not.
Sandbox or "faffing about" means I can explore every nook and cranny of the map and find new random items, cars, quests, challenges and the like. GTA IV did less of this in favour of more story, and is thus closer to Mafia than any other GTA.

And I agree.. probably, never played GTAIV but I'll take your word for it, I'm just arguing that due to Mafia having more mechanics in common with GTA than Max Payne for instance.

Mafia completely constricts you. You can't even visit your garage buddy except when the game tells you to. You can't do any mission out of sequence. You can't steal cars except in its linear order. There is absolutely no point to exploring the open world, it is just a map given to drive you from mission to mission.

Will not argue with you much there, just point out that Mafia does have a sandbox-ish mode that you unlock after completing the storymode in case you were'nt aware of it - though not as a defence of it's genre classification since it's an optional gamemode.

I understand the confusion somewhat because both take place in an open map and feature driving, but it doesn't hold up to scrutiny. In actual gameplay, if you look beyond the surface, there is no logical reason to claim Mafia is closer to GTA than it is to Max Payne. And again, I'd say it's an inferior story-driven TPS to Max Payne, especially in its shooting action.

Well, the actually gameplay is'nt that much different from GTA, it's the storytelling in my view that differs the games.

I would'nt compare it to Max Payne, I don't think that's a fair comparison to either game but both are linear, yes. Difference being that Mafia has more varied gameplay and in my opinion more interesting gunplay and story. I do like the Max Payne presentation/style though.

 

[Sander]

And I agree.. probably, never played GTAIV but I'll take your word for it, I'm just arguing that due to Mafia having more mechanics in common with GTA than Max Payne for instance.

If you mean that it has driving and shooting, then yeah the mechanics are the same. But Mafia plays completely differently from the GTA games. You're being narrated through a story where you can occasionally take over yourself. The gameplay itself with regard to both driving and shooting is completely different in both games, too. Mafia is a lot less forgiving then GTA, you have to obey traffic rules or the cops get after you in Mafia, you're constantly struggling with ammo restraints and health comes at a premium. While both games have driving shooting, Mafia's type of driving and shooting is very different from GTA's.

It's not just technical gameplay, it's what the game asks of you. The core of GTA has always been free-roam, and not a very realistic free roam. You're supposed to go out and just have fun to a certain degree. But in Mafia that's absolutely not the case, the game encourages you to take the world very seriously.

 

[mor]

Well, the actually gameplay is'nt that much different from GTA, it's the storytelling in my view that differs the games.

i agree.

personally i got tired of sandbox games, during the years its lost its appeal to me, maybe its just my personalty that i absolutely cannot leave an area without doing everything, which eventually make it feel repetitive and boring.

i prefer what Mafia 2 seems to be a good unique theme, story driven game.

 

[Mettle]

If you mean that it has driving and shooting, then yeah the mechanics are the same. But Mafia plays completely differently from the GTA games. You're being narrated through a story where you can occasionally take over yourself. The gameplay itself with regard to both driving and shooting is completely different in both games, too. Mafia is a lot less forgiving then GTA, you have to obey traffic rules or the cops get after you in Mafia, you're constantly struggling with ammo restraints and health comes at a premium. While both games have driving shooting, Mafia's type of driving and shooting is very different from GTA's.

It's not just technical gameplay, it's what the game asks of you. The core of GTA has always been free-roam, and not a very realistic free roam. You're supposed to go out and just have fun to a certain degree. But in Mafia that's absolutely not the case, the game encourages you to take the world very seriously.

Yes, that's what I do mean - I can't think of a game that bridges the gap between the two games to make a better comparison though.
Max Payne does'nt really cut it since it only has TPS and linearity in common with Mafia.
GTA has driving, shooting and sandbox in an open world.
Mafia has driving, shooting and some sneaking in a linear story with an open world.

While the tone of the similar mechanics are different, the base for them both are similar - though developer intentions are probably miles apart besides the fun part.

Edit; Only noticed now that I was replying to Sander - go, go for perceptiveness?

 

[Brother None]

... I can explain it to you, but I can't understand it for you. Sorry.

 

[Sander]

Claiming Mafia and GTA are similar games is like claiming Need For Speed: Undercover and F1 2010 are the same type of game. In both games you drive cars, but if you approach NFS like an F1 game or vice versa you're going to fail miserably.

 

[Mettle]

I define games differently than you, I don't see a problem with that. As far as I in my limited intellect can understand you define GTA as a sandbox shooter and Mafia as a linear shooter. While I define them by similarity in mechanics/content.

Claiming Mafia and GTA are similar games is like claiming Need For Speed: Undercover and F1 2010 are the same type of game. In both games you drive cars, but if you approach NFS like an F1 game or vice versa you're going to fail miserably.

The biggest difference would be that you can compare F1 2010 to F1 2000 or say Geoff Crammonds games in this case. Though if you want to compare NFS; Undercover with F1 2010 and say they're similar you're not far off in the case both are racing games. One is an arcade style game, the other a simulator.

Mafia being a TPS with driving etc, and GTA also having driving and TPS makes them similar, though not the same ofcourse, just similar in the way they share some features.

 

[Sander]

You missed the point. The mechanics are different. Both games feature driving and shooting, but the driving and shooting parts are vastly different in each game.

 

[Mettle]

You missed the point. The mechanics are different. Both games feature driving and shooting, but the driving and shooting parts are vastly different in each game.

Yes, they are, but in the case of Mafia and GTA I can't find any other games to really compare Mafia with than GTA. Hence I think the comparison is flawed, but valid.

 

[Brother None]

Mafia being a TPS with driving etc, and GTA also having driving and TPS makes them similar, though not the same ofcourse, just similar in the way they share some features.

No one ever said they didn't, it's just that what they share is relatively minor in comparison with what sets them apart. Driving and shooting aren't "core" mechanics unique to these games, rather the core of GTA is the sandbox gameplay, while the core of Mafia is its story. The majority of gameplay in GTA is spent roaming around for stuff to do (tho you can play it straight I guess), while Mafia's core is its missions, with the open-world gameplay serving no function but to bring you from mission to mission.

The gameplay features are the same, but the mechanics are completely different. Do they share some stuff? Sure. But they're not in the same genre, so the comparisons need to stop. They're not trying to do the same thing so claiming Mafia is "better" at something GTA is trying to do is asinine. Structurally, Mafia is closer to Max Payne than it is to GTA, because the way the game narratively guides you and the way most missions are approached is similar. The only thing that sets them apart is the driving sequences in Mafia that are actually gameplay-related (that means chase sequences etc), and those are in such a minority as to be irrelevant.

I'm really not seeing how you're not grasping this.

 

[Sander]

Yes, they are, but in the case of Mafia and GTA I can't find any other games to really compare Mafia with than GTA. Hence I think the comparison is flawed, but valid.

You can't find anything else, so it must be similar? That's just weak.

The games aren't similar just because no one else made a game like Mafia (that you know of).

 

[Mettle]

No one ever said they didn't, it's just that what they share is relatively minor in comparison with what sets them apart. Driving and shooting aren't "core" mechanics unique to these games, rather the core of GTA is the sandbox gameplay, while the core of Mafia is its story. The majority of gameplay in GTA is spent roaming around for stuff to do (tho you can play it straight I guess), while Mafia's core is its missions, with the open-world gameplay serving no function but to bring you from mission to mission.

The gameplay features are the same, but the mechanics are completely different. Do they share some stuff? Sure. But they're not in the same genre, so the comparisons need to stop. They're not trying to do the same thing so claiming Mafia is "better" at something GTA is trying to do is asinine. Structurally, Mafia is closer to Max Payne than it is to GTA, because the way the game narratively guides you and the way most missions are approached is similar. The only thing that sets them apart is the driving sequences in Mafia that are actually gameplay-related (that means chase sequences etc), and those are in such a minority as to be irrelevant.

I'm really not seeing how you're not grasping this.

I get what you are saying, I just don't agree on every detail, I agree that it is closer to Max Payne in narrative than GTA, but I don't want to compare it to Max Payne, because of it lacking some of the gameplay elements that Mafia has (Driving) that makes up parts of the game.

I'm curious what I'm missing in pointing out so that you can understand 'why' I'm comparing the two.

You can't find anything else, so it must be similar? That's just weak.

The games aren't similar just because no one else made a game like Mafia (that you know of).

It's the most similar game out there that I know of that I can compare it with, sure I can compare the shooting and narrative with say Max Payne, but the game also has the driving part - wich while it might seem minor was an integral part of the game in my opinion.

And while they are both different games with superficial similarities, I can compare the parts of the game and say I like this better, or that is worse - but I can't compare the sum of the two parts towards another.

Weak? Yes, quite so. I feel like I have to compare the green apple to the orange, because there are no red apples around, or however you want to put it for a flawed analogy.

 

[Paul_cz]

The only mission in original Mafia that somewhat bored me was the taxi mission..but it served as an introduction to the city, so I understood why it was there. Every other one was just great and unique..the farm outside the city, the steamboat assassination, the prison, the hotel, the bank heist...so awesome. Better than any mission in any GTA game.

And since I enjoyed the atmosphere and car physics, I liked the driving in between