Mars Exploration

That's just stupid. Mars is not for us to own, especially not some space boy.
 
I hope they send a chimp first. I would gladly grant a chimp the pleasure of owning Mars. :lol:
 
My god, that writer is the biggest piece of egoistical capitalistic shit I've ever seen...


As a capitalist and a lover of technology, I judge the nasa space program and a nasa mission to Mars to be morally a far better government expenditure than welfare-state programs such as Medicare, public housing projects, etc. At least NASA is creating something of value that benefits all Americans, instead of just taking money from producers and giving it away to non-producers.
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Somebody like that would probably be lynched in Europe. How the fuck could sending a man to Mars EVER be more imporant then giving people a house and medical care?


EDIT: And apparently, he's not all that good at getting the meaning of a text too...

Analyzing the history of American railroads, Ayn Rand wrote: "One of the statists' arguments in favor of government controls is the notion that American railroads were built mainly through the financial help of the government and would have been impossible without it."
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And from that piece of text, our mister-capitalistic dipshit distills the following conclusion:

If it is the government that gets to Mars, the government will forever take credit for it and will forever claim this excuse for denying property rights on Mars as on Earth.
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What the FUCK does that even have to do with the writings of Ayn Rand? The guy makes me think of a midieval bible-analyst...


EDIT 2: This guy breaks my history-studying heart...

The land of America existed all through the Dark Ages. It was a frontier waiting to be explored, but not until the Renaissance did that exploration begin. And once the principle of property rights was expounded by John Locke and carried through by the Founding Fathers, that exploration thrived as never before.
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Progressuberalles! wrote:
As a capitalist and a lover of technology, I judge the nasa space program and a nasa mission to Mars to be morally a far better government expenditure than welfare-state programs such as Medicare, public housing projects, etc.
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*Morally*

Buahahahahaha.

Jebus wrote:
Somebody like that would probably be lynched in Europe.
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Lynched? Nah. Let's offer him a little trip to Sierra Leone.

Jebus wrote:
How the fuck could sending a man to Mars could EVER be more imporant then giving people a house and medical care?
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Hah. Haven't you heard?
http://www.azlyrics.com/lyrics/deadkennedys/killthepoor.html
 
Could I maybe get a subscription to the Anarchistic Weekly, Wooz? :D


And anyway, re-reading my previous post and the last piece of the article, it also came to my attention that that guy is apparently so fucking stupid he contradicts himself completely. One minute, he's saying that the government shoud spend its money on sending people to Mars instead of wasting it on *silly* things like health care; and the next thing he's saying that

No good can come from non-military government exploration of space.
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I mean, puh-lease. This guy obviously has less brains then that woman who recently asked my Modern Times professor if the Congress of Vienna was the reason for the French Revolution...
 
I think that ownership of Martian land is outside the jurisduction of the United States anyways, it ought to lie with the UN, or the IMF or someone. It should be treated as Antarctica is treated, which is to say no one owns it. Only after Mars is colonized should people be able to claim property rights.

Although the idea of using property and exploitation rights as a carrot to spur colonization is not an inherently bad one.
 
I think that ownership of Martian land is outside the jurisduction of the United States anyways, it ought to lie with the UN, or the IMF or someone. It should be treated as Antarctica is treated, which is to say no one owns it. Only after Mars is colonized should people be able to claim property rights.
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Agreed.

Although the idea of using property and exploitation rights as a carrot to spur colonization is not an inherently bad one.
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Not a bad idea, but I don't think it should enforced at the cost of the poor and needy of medical assistance/public housing. Besides, there is always the danger of big business buying out/claiming most of the planet's property rights and establishing a monopoly.
 
I don't think the UN could actually own any land. That would kind of destroy the entire point of the UN, as in it being a neutral body to try and make everybody get along...

And the IMF... They don't have any experience in actual government, me thinks.

And I don't really think exploration on Mars would be all that important anyway. I mean, we have sattelites now FFS. Just launch one into Mars' orbit, and you're all set. The guy who wrote that is nothing but a goddamn idiot.

EDIT: Not you, Murdoch! :oops: I mean that capitalistic piece of shit...
 
Well, there needs to be something there to exploit first - right now we don't know if there is anything worthwhile on Mars.
 
The UN doesn't "own" it, Antarctica is protected by UN jurisdiction.
 
Murdoch wrote:
I think that ownership of Martian land is outside the jurisduction of the United States anyways, it ought to lie with the UN
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Resuming, the UN should prevent any country to own mars. ;)
 
True, Mars should take a backseat to domestic concerns. But remember that the reason we think Mars is worthless is because we don't know what's there, and the only way we will know if there is anything to exploit is to explore it. Maybe something on Mars, as inocuous as a previously unknown chemical process (think the movie Red Planet) was found that could alter our way of life. For instance the ability to reduce CO2 to CH4 in one step, would that be worthwhile?

Which brings up some interesting thoughts: if the existence of life, either in the past or surviving today was found, what would be the ethical and legal arguments that would occur? And how would that effect our efforts at colonization? The life would almost certainly not be sentient, but does human manifest destiny extend to extraplanetary locations at all?

And to Jebus's point, I think that whoever has jurisdiction over Antarctica should be the same people who have jurisdiction over Mars. EDIT: like the UN's system, as stated.
 
WHile I am generally going to be against a land grab for Mars, I will put in my two cents.

(1) Generally the rule of international law on acquisition of sovereignty of unclaimed recognizes the right of the first person to claim it as theirs. That usually means being able to identify and and actually building some kind of settlement- but now always. So you get there, you put down your flag- finders keepers, losers weepers. It's archaic but that's how it works. Of course other ways of getting land included negotiated contract and conquest, but then as I mentioned these are pretty archaic rules.

(2) The UN does not "own" Antarctica. In fact, Antarctica has competing claims over it and the right to exploit what ever minerals might exist below the ice. Actually quite a few countries claim Antarctica, but there was series of treaties that basically said that no country would assert their claim of ownership.

In some ways settling that problem now might resolve future issues, but I doubt it. Settling this issue peacefully would be a good idea, after all it might just be a big red rock. And yes, I agree, we have bigger issues on earth.
 
yeah I read through some of the articles of 'the capitalist', and it is... well more or less pathetic... no even horrible... these are realy good republican people.

I can't agree at all with any claims on the mars. What on earth gives somebody the right to own something only because he walked around on it a bit... god.. I think everybody should take whatever they need... that red rock's big enough.
 
Name Dropping

Name Dropping

Name dropping "Ann Rand" is an indicator of a "Libertarian" or those further out that part of the philosophical-politico spectrum.

There are some savvy disciplined minds of this color and they can be fun in how they tear apart socio-political conventions, like covert anarchists.

Too often I sense it's the fuzzy thinking fellow travellers that resent you or me getting anything in the way of a government subsidy. While, claiming their "dole" is an "entitlement".

Libertarians basically call for less government, but I doubt they would help out by driving their SUV's less so there is "less government" expense in maintaining the "public" highways, or "less government" supervision of our auto emissions by driving the most fuel efficient Japanese moto'. The profile is "have's" that want more by paying less taxes AND MORE tariffs and price supports to fund or protect their pseudo capitalist or rather state capitalist endeavors.

There are some "libertarian" fellow travelers that flame "liberals" constantly. These profiled, sanctimonious "liberals" claim to have been there on the 6th day of creation, therefore liberals claim to know God's intentions, the big game plan. The fellow travellers know best. This higher moral plane means the fellow travellers have been "here" on day ONE, the first day of creation. This is no humble buddhist or Jesus talk of God being in us all, rather the justification of their self deification.

Yah, their farts don't stink.

Or is it the 'sin of pride' that won Lucifer the bragging rights to Hell?

Or, Mars ...

As for who gets Mars, I imagine the first robot that Kicks all of the other
Mars' robots mechanical butts carries the "white man's burden" or is King of the Imperialist Hill.

Why the Bush Mars Initiative? Well it's just another unfunded federal mandate at this point, but maybe there is real estate potential we don't see. As America browns, maybe space flight is'z white flight.

4too
 
Okay, 4too, I'll just categorize that along the lines of an evilmonkey type response. Maybe you can popularize the genre of abstract replies.

4too said:
As for who gets Mars, I imagine the first robot that Kicks all of the other Mars' robots mechanical butts carries the "white man's burden" or is King of the Imperialist Hill.
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Wow.

I have no clue...
 
Too Vague

Too Vague And More!

Now and into the near future, Mars exploration will be done by robots.

NASA has been marginally successful, having the most times at bat. The Europe Group gave it a go. The Japanese have tried. And, maybe we can expect China Inc. to follow in the next 5 years.

Imagine the red sands littered with space junk until the trip becomes routine and hard data is confirmed on the geological history, or the exploitation potential of Mars.

Right now Mars is the "Planet of the Alien Robots". 'Planet of Broken Toys".

The group with the most successful robot explorers may be the one that can later put ape descendant entities (or the likenesses of God) on the Martian surface. The territorial "ownership" issue may be mute by then if it's a true team effort to share the risk.

Still, air breathers will need to "squat" to satisfy the law of "finders keepers". Marking boundaries with trash and poop, like any territorial animal. Will it become the "Planet of Evil Monkeys"? (Stay tuned to this channel! Video at 11!)

Consider global corporate conglomerates will bid to exploit any economic advantages of the Red Planet and come to consider it "theirs".

Planet "Haliburton"!

The reference to "the white man's burden" was a linkage of past
imperialist propaganda, the 'civilizing' of the earth, to this marginally funded Bush Mars initiative. A lot of "feel good" initiatives are declared but never adequately funded. It will not be funded unless there's a powerful motivation. It's an implication that our motives are not ''pure''of heart or 'pure' of science. This hint of hidden agenda is satirized by implying the political motive of finding new suburbs for the upper classes, fleeing the influx of work starved latin americans and the evolution towards educational and economic parity of afro americans.


Planet "Haliburton"!

4too
 
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