Briosafreak
Lived Through the Heat Death
No, it is very much a problem of the engine.
Massive Black New Vegas & Mothership Zeta concept art
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Lived Through the Heat Death
No, it is very much a problem of the engine.
Especially the vegas concept art is impossible to take over into the game with the gamebryo engine, as it's just too many buildings, the area is too wide and it's all just too big.
brfritos
Humma Kavulaaaaaaa
Well, NAF is huge and full of things, specially the main entrance; Nipton is pack with houses and full of detritus; the area concerning Coyote Den, Jack Rabbit Springs, Ivanpah Dry Lake and Race Track are packed with entities.
So the problem is the engine, Bethesda speeding up NV lauch or the lack of time to make the locations huge?
Camp McCarran and the surrouding areas are almost one location by itself, full of houses and buildings.
FO3 was developed in five years and NV in what, one and a half or two?
The engine limitations don't answer all the problems.
And what about iD5 engine, could be used in NV or not?
[ ]'s
So the problem is the engine, Bethesda speeding up NV lauch or the lack of time to make the locations huge?
Camp McCarran and the surrouding areas are almost one location by itself, full of houses and buildings.
FO3 was developed in five years and NV in what, one and a half or two?
The engine limitations don't answer all the problems.
And what about iD5 engine, could be used in NV or not?
[ ]'s
It is the artist which makes the tools. Not the tools the artist.Briosafreak said:
Though I think many things have been more a problem with "time" not so much with the engine.
Briosafreak
Lived Through the Heat Death
Again no, the tools act as a constraint of the artist in this case, as in all Beth/Gamebryo games. They could had 3 years in the making that the game would look and feel the same, as we saw in Fallout 3.
I am not so sure about that. For example I am pretty confident that we would have seen a much more fleshed out Legion compared to that hurr-durr-we-are-evil-slaver-nutjob faction that we have currently. I guess the Strip/Vegas would have seen more "population" as well even if it would have meant to see more separate "sections". If thinking about what some modders did with Oblivion already I think more time gives you more experience with the engine eventually pushing it to its limits without sacrificing that much in hardware. See the complete mod for Call of Pripyat. It is really not possible to compare both games from the visuals.
I am sure certain parts of the engine cant be changed that easily so that you might say it is some "limitation". But that doesn't mean it is completely impossible to work with it. I mean with enough time they could have worked and tweaked the gameybro engine to their liking so they could have realized their vision of the finished product better. In the end it is anyway always a tradeoff what you actually "want" to achieve and what is "possible" to achieve in the given timeframe.
I am sure certain parts of the engine cant be changed that easily so that you might say it is some "limitation". But that doesn't mean it is completely impossible to work with it. I mean with enough time they could have worked and tweaked the gameybro engine to their liking so they could have realized their vision of the finished product better. In the end it is anyway always a tradeoff what you actually "want" to achieve and what is "possible" to achieve in the given timeframe.
Well, this is not an engine limitation and nobody said it was.
Briosafreak
Lived Through the Heat Death
Lexx said:
Yep, I agree. For the rest I don't believe so Crni, again the experience of the first Fallout 3 leads me to believe the opposite. As talking to tens of modders and a few devs.
We'll see how the next version will work out, I'm not very optimistic though.
Lexx said:
I know I just meant it as example. I agree with you guys. Some parts sure look like "limitations". But I think it sounds almost like an excuse. Not that I am blaming Obsidian. I just think with 3 years of development instead of 1 they might have been able to find mor workarounds for it. I mean after all Bethesda was using gamebryo since Morrowind and no clue how much of it is still present in their "new" engine. It all depends on the coding monkeys and how much time they spend to modify it ? No clue
I mean isn't that what Unreal is doing all the time ? Modifing their engine with new qualities and more possibilites ?
Limitations of the engine? I don think so. I think, the main problem of NV is *lazy artists* that just sabotaged any optimization.
If only they have used their engine-resources wisely, the engine would have endured much more major locations, full of population, clutter junk and other things, what are you talking about.
regardz.
If only they have used their engine-resources wisely, the engine would have endured much more major locations, full of population, clutter junk and other things, what are you talking about.
regardz.
So, as example, what exactly should they have made different then? Because I don't know what you are aiming at.
same here. While I do not believe so much in "engine" limitations it is quite obvious that Obsidian had to fight as well with "Bethesdas" version of gameybro. In other words. There was only so much they could achieve in that short time.
@Lexx
>as example
Well, at first i have 2say about polycount of characters, critters, weapons and some clutter (almost all of this are Obsidians works). Open in nifscope any of vegas-weapons, look into tris-count. Too much. But some of these are too low (f.e. Combat ranger outfit) and looks like shit. Actually, normal players can't see *polys*, but everyone can see shitty textures (low quality i mean). As it was in F3. As a result == lags, stuttering fps drop and low quality picture, just worser then it was in F3. Engine just has nothing to do with it. Gamebryo is good engine (i'm not saying about shadows, volume fog and other nextgen stuff), it's good enough to bring us _good_ and not frustrating picture. As a result, designers decided to cut of population, increase the number of loadable locations and reduce clutter objects there. So we have empty vegas now. And this is not engine limitations. Its 3d artists brain-limitations. And thats why locations ingame doesn't looks like 2d-concept arts.
And i don't believe in bethesda-time-limitations. Bethesda could afford to wait till obsidian finish their work. Otherside, IF all of obsidian-guys can not cope with the work, why didn't they call more artists/programmers/designers? Or just ONE art-director, that could keep artists-asses away from different shit. Don have money for this? I don think so. It is just laziness. That's all.
>as example
Well, at first i have 2say about polycount of characters, critters, weapons and some clutter (almost all of this are Obsidians works). Open in nifscope any of vegas-weapons, look into tris-count. Too much. But some of these are too low (f.e. Combat ranger outfit) and looks like shit. Actually, normal players can't see *polys*, but everyone can see shitty textures (low quality i mean). As it was in F3. As a result == lags, stuttering fps drop and low quality picture, just worser then it was in F3. Engine just has nothing to do with it. Gamebryo is good engine (i'm not saying about shadows, volume fog and other nextgen stuff), it's good enough to bring us _good_ and not frustrating picture. As a result, designers decided to cut of population, increase the number of loadable locations and reduce clutter objects there. So we have empty vegas now. And this is not engine limitations. Its 3d artists brain-limitations. And thats why locations ingame doesn't looks like 2d-concept arts.
And i don't believe in bethesda-time-limitations. Bethesda could afford to wait till obsidian finish their work. Otherside, IF all of obsidian-guys can not cope with the work, why didn't they call more artists/programmers/designers? Or just ONE art-director, that could keep artists-asses away from different shit. Don have money for this? I don think so. It is just laziness. That's all.