DarkCorp- you are such an Asian nationalist? Are you saying that Asians got no breaks? That the US didn't open its doors to refugees from Asia in the past? Or that Asians don't get access to aid programs that help them open up small businesses?
Are you so pissed off because of Asian immigrant experience? Dude- every immigrant received shit coming over. My folks are immigrant too, and I got to tell you, it wasn't easy for them either.
That's the fucking problem- we're all willing to say, "Hey what about my race! My ethnicity? My interests?"
And that's what's going to fuck us in the end. Because its not about your interests, but the values of a country.
Its ironic that this plays on the same kind of social divisiveness that the Republicans have been feeding on for years.
Is this an invasion- I would think an invasion is done by an organized army bent on overturning or capturing territory.
From what I see, the Mexicans or Latin Americans are not much different from the Irish, Italians or Germans who immigrated to the US, went through Ellis Island and did the rest of the immigrant experience.
(Sorry, but I can't help but think our standards would be a hell of a lot different if the immigrants were Swedes. I am pretty sure the Chinese population who throw a shitstorm if most of the immigrants were Chinese).
Today's immigrant has to wait up to ten years to gain citizenship at the cost of around $10K. That's bullshit.
As for paying taxes- a lot of the illegal immigrants do get jobs using phony social security numbers. So they often pay social security and income taxes, but will never collect them. Many illegals are buying homes, which means they pay property taxes. And yes, they pay sales taxes.
And this crap that they they are undermining our jobs? Please. WHen I was working in the restaurant business, I was the only white guy back there- the rest were Hispanics because no one wanted the job.
And if you think they're the ones causing our economy trouble- you're looking in the wrong direction. Instead of blaming low income workers, maybe the blame goes to the companies that ship jobs out to countries with lower salaries than ours. Countries like China or Bangledesh, or India. Ever notice how the person selling you shit over the phone has an Indian accent? Used to be those jobs were in Omaha.
As for sending money back to Mexico or anywhere else- that's not much different from Chinese sending money back to China, Africans sending money back to Africa, Muslims sending money back to the Middle East- etc.
Mexico is our neighbor and those remittances back to the Mexico is one of the largest sources of foreign aid going to Mexico. ANd in exchange for that aid we get the labor of thousands of generally underpaid workers. SO this is a bad thing? Or are you saying that's worse that our major corporations sending jobs abroad where they can continue to exploit laborers at cheap rates rather than pay Americans a fair rate?
Don't get me wrong- I think our immigration policy is fucked up. I support better border control, but I also support lower fees for immigrants wanting to come in, and I support ending policies that are rather discriminatory.
Discriminatory? The government makes it easy for people to come over if they have technical skills or if they have enough money. When I was practicing I was approached by someone to work a partnership in which we'd help Asian immigrants come abroad if they had enough money to invest. If you can pay your way over, then you can come over. If you're middle or upper class, you can come over. If not, you'll have to slip over the border.
Yeah- that's because the Irish, Italians and Germans who came over where just totally loaded when they came over.
Hey, remember that statue of liberty?
Not like the brazen giant of Greek fame,
With conquering limbs astride from land to land;
Here at our sea-washed, sunset gates shall stand
A mighty woman with a torch, whose flame Is the imprisoned lightning, and her name Mother of Exiles.
From her beacon-hand
Glows world-wide welcome; her mild eyes command
The air-bridged harbor that twin cities frame.
"Keep, ancient lands, your storied pomp!" cries she
With silent lips. "Give me your tired, your poor,
Your huddled masses yearning to breathe free,
The wretched refuse of your teeming shore.
Send these, the homeless, tempest-tossed to me,
I lift my lamp beside the golden door!"
You know, one of the things that defines a nation is its values and its history- the things that the country believes in. Even issues of national security involves the security of things valued- and that includes a country's sense of self- its identity.
Let's be fair- immigrants came to America because they were looking for the opportunity to prosper in a country that protected their rights. That's true then, and its true now. And we, as a country, should be proud of that. It's those folks who have made the US great.
It's not about getting nice tax breaks if you buy an SUV. Its not about buying into a gated community that keeps the "wrong element" out. Its not about inheriting great wealth from some dead ancestor. That shit didn't make the US great. It was people trying to make a better life for themselves by working hard.
So yes, I say lets get more of those people. Because we need them.
Do you want a country that denies people access merely because they are poor or because they come for a Hispanic nation?
You want to end illegal immigration from Mexico, than what the US should do is support policies that provide incentives for people to stay in Mexico. Instead of shipping all our business to China, maybe we should send our businesses to Mexico. Who knows, maybe we'd get less lead paint poisoning in the process.
@ Prez- I think you're stretching the notion that they are sacrificing the well-being of others. WHile some illegal immigrants do get exploited, I suspect many get paid the same rates as Americans. What they do is keep salaries low.
And while their children get a free education- if a person is born in the US, they become a citizen. If you were to travel abroad, your kid would get an education. The idea is that a child should not suffer for a lack of education merely because of a sin of their parents. Do you punish the parent or the child for the parent's sin?
So yes, I agree, that border security is important. Certainly there are criminal organizations that are exploiting immigrants and are slipping over the border. These folks need to be stopped. But what often happens is that these folks, once over, live on the margins of society- which is where the crime problem resides.
We have a major problem in the US- our population is aging. As the Baby Boomers continue to age, more of the working of the population is going to have to support them- either through the family or through taxes to the government. Our economy also needs labor if it is to continue to grow and be competitive.
The choice is either to marginalize Latino immigrants or to incorporate them into the economic and political system. ANd if you really want to stop the flow of immigrants, than what is needed is to make Mexico a better country- instead of state building in Iraq we should be doing that in Mexico. Because what Mexican wants to leave their family behind to come to the US, a country where they don't know the language, and work when they could theoretically do about as well in Mexico.
And that's always been the drive of immigration. People come to the US primarily for economic opportunity. Europeans came to the US when Europe's economy was weak or in shambles. Now they don't because Europe's standard of live compares favorably to the US. Indian immigrants now go back to India because there are more opportunities. Even Chinese and Vietnamese immigratns, return home because they see more opportunities there.
People come here because their opportunities at home are awful. That's how it has always been. That we make it so difficult now against Mexicans is driven by the same kinds of discriminatory impulses that drove Americans to discriminate against the Chinese, Catholics and other people that Americans thought were "other" or "different." And what did that create - urban ethnic ghettos, ethnically defined organized crime, social and ethnic tensions?
Fuck that. We got to move past that bullshit.
As Americans we need to be better than that. We need to stick by the principles that guided us historically and which define us as a people.
We should be proud of this immigrant history. Because its immigrants that made the US the country it is today. And we didn't get the best and brightest, but the refuse, the refugees who wanted greater economic opportunities.
We need to stick to our values that define us and unite us, not this bullshit that keeps us divided or allows us to feed our worst instincts.
We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness.
All men. Not merely those men who were unfortunate enough to live on the wrong side of a border.
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