Guys, we are double posting like hell. Better to just edit your posts. I think we're all reading the threads so there is little reason for the double post.
Ok, Prez- I agree that the Americans who declared independence on July 4 where trying to escape the rule of a tyrant- even if they were also trying to evade taxes the British had paid for fighting off the French.
But they only represented about the 1/3 of the country that supported independence. Nealry 1/3 were still loyalists.
If you go back further- you can look to the colonies in Plymouth, Mass where they were looking for a place to practice their faith- and discriminated against those who didn't share theirs. Or you can go to Jamestown where the colonists were so busy looking for gold they nearly starved to death.
Today we still have folks who come to the US for the same purpose- Muslims come so they can worship their faith in ways they can't back home. Mexicans come over to work at McDonald's or in construction or as housekeepers.
So things haven't quite changed. And as I have pointed out above- these folks are paying taxes and are not enjoying services. Furthermore, they would be paying more taxes if they were legal and had a greater chance of the social mobility that this country was so proud of.
As for parties- frankly, I like open house parties when I was single because more chicks show up that I don't know, and I admit that I preferred boning chicks I didn't know before the party, even those with foreign accents. So more chicks to bone I think is a good thing. If only you're getting is dudes in your party, then you need to throw a better party.
@Darkcorp and @ El Prez- here's the thing about immigration or any policy.
A law is nothing but a moral choice that has been turned into a binding rule through the political process of that state. All such rules are created by the conflict among social groups over what is moral and what is not moral. Each group comes to the game with their preferences and also their resources, and then they struggle over what the rules are- idealy reaching a compromise that everyone can live with and which, hopefully, fixes the problem.
IN immigration law, immigrants are usually going to get fucked because they can't really participate in the political process because they can't vote.
Now balance that to the fact that we live in a time of fear. It was foreigners who hit us on 9-11, even if it was homegrown duschbags that his us in Oklahoma City. In times of fear of foreigners (got to defend against them terrorists), than immigration rules get tough. Furhtermore, when workers have been suffering from declining real wages for the past 30 years (essentially the rate of salary increases have fallen behind the increase in the cost of living) a lot of Americans are fearing for their quality of life standards.
And that's the problem for immigrants-
(1) fear of foreigners
(2) declinging real wages.
I know the fear of foreigners sounds odd, and a lot of you might not see it. But being married to a foreignor, yes. And I don't think its that different from Irish Americans being afraid of Italians, Italians being afraid of Purto Ricans, Californians being afraid of Chinese, etc.
The greater the fear, the greater the discrimination.
Declinging real wages has hit working class and middle class Americans very hard, and they see immigrants taking jobs in construction, fast food, and elsewhere. They see immigrants speaking a foreign language. Sometimes the immigrants act like assholes- which doesn't help them.
SO this all translates to legislation that has been highly anti-immigrant.
Which is where we get to the issue of due process. Due process is the law as created to appeal to majorities- which gets to the fears of voters about foreignors and jobs.
Is it real? Not really. The problem of wages has been a long-term problem due to the explort of vast segments of our economy abroad to lower wage destinations (like Mexico, India, China). Even so, there are still lots of jobs that go around. The fear of foreignors, well that's a hold over from 9-11. But last I checked there hasn't been a Mexican terrorist since Pancho Via.
Don't forget that we still live under a constitutional system, and under our constitution US law must be consistent with international standards too. So there are some things that we, as a developed and civilized nation, shouldn't be doing.
But more importantly, there are things that we should do. If America is to be exceptional- as a beacon for liberty, opportunity, entrepreneurship, and if the US is to set an example that a working stiff can work hard to do well and isn't caught up in the class divisions that Europe used to have, than we have to stand up for ideas.
No doubt we have countries. But targetting immigrants isn't the answer to reforming our economy. What the US needs to do is more high-end manufacturing, better services and to stop exporting all these jobs to destinations. For the last 40 years we've had an agenda that supports the wealthy and fucks the poor and middle class. But its the poor and middle class that made this country great.
We need people who will work hard, strive, save and put their kids through school to achieve a better quality of life. That's the basic immigrant experience. But now we discriminate against them.
So we created an immigration system that is aimed at keeping people out of the US, or making legal immigration either too expensive or too difficult. If we want to be fair to these folks, we could make immigration cheaper and easier, and chances are we'd have more legal immigrants and less illegals.
Because those folks really do want to be part of this American dream. But our political system conspires to keep them out of it. Why- because their poor and foreign.
Honestly, I think we've had enough of a political system that is all about keeping the rich happy and fucks over the poor and middle class (citizens and immigrants alike).
As for Mexico- you're talking about a country with a lot of poverty, a lot of income inequality, cities with lots of unemployed folks and farms that are barely getting by. This is a country where a few wealthy families control most of the wealth and one party has ruled almost uninterrupted since the last civil war. Corruption, poverty, crime are high.
And to be honest, chances are if you lived in Mexico, you'd hop over the border too. I know I would.
