I've played GTA4, and you're spot-on. It's more of the same ol', same ol'. I'd give it a 9 tops (maybe an 8.5 for all the freezing/crashing issues on both the PS3 and 360). It's a good game, if you're into the GTA series, but it's definitely not God's gift to gamers, which many reviews would have you believe.Brother None said:
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Bodybag
Look, Ma! Two Heads!
So all these arbitrary numerical ratings we're handing out here for a game that some of us haven't even played - are they on a true scale of 1-10 or do they follow the 7-9 formula we were just bemoaning a few posts before? IMO scoring an "8" on either means it's worth checking out.
And it's definatley GTA. I guess I never thought I'd see someone in this forum making a dig at the game specifically for sticking to its roots, but I have to admit this revelation modifies my overall perception of the NMA community (feel free to assume it's for the better).
I think in almost every case the changes in this iteration are for the better. How many sequels, by number 4, can even say that (just in case you get a wild hair to do the research on your own, I'll go ahead and drop a vital clue to get you started: it's a short list)? The only technical issues I've experienced gave been some pop-in of textures and geometry at various times (though not excessive, so far) and some loading times that seemed to stand out (there's plenty of loading screens, which speak to the normally quick nature of the loading speed that only a few are noticable).
+ No more (visible) stat building: it's not missed in the least.
+ ditching the cops is no longer a matter of running over a powerup; the player either ditches the cops or he doesn't. And if you're really in the shit, you probably aren't ever going to lose them. I fucking love all of that.
+ Individual vehicle physics specifically tuned for each car. You will hear, even in the positive reviews, how vehicle control will be an issue for some players. Thing is, most of them learn the point is to add a level of strategy to the game not previously afforded, and grow to appreciate it. Don't expect your faux 1983 Cadillac Sedan Deville D' Elegance to nail that 90° turn at 110MPH like you would in your faux Mercedes SLK 230 and you'll be fine.
+ Combat, while kind of button-combination heavy, is way more engaging and satisfying then any other GTA. That's probably not saying a lot to anyone who's played any of the previous GTAs, but to those of you who haven't and reviewed tham anyways - it's really better.
+ Choice and Consequence? Just the bare minimum, but it's there! Choose between rival factions by executing the leader of one to gain social currency with the other. Or go to execute them then have a change of heart and let them skip town. It's had an effect on the story so far, but I haven't finished the main campaign so I can't tell you if it has a really big impact on the game by the end, but so far... functionally tons more depth than its predecessors. (which again, is what it is.)
+ a likeable protagonist?! Sure, CJ was charismatic for a brutal sociopath, but Niko is actually sympathetic somehow, and instead of losing my shit and starting a riot after every hour of play, I find myself putting a lot more effort in keeping my avatar alive and employed. If this because the writing is so much better, or just that the game so much less frustating thanks to the improvements? You can't MAKE me choose, buster!
+ The presentation, while always the hallmark of the series, is better than ever. There is an almost embarassing ammount of fictional game-world content programming; imagine Morrowind's books as TVs and radios. And a good bit of it is integrated into interactive gameplay. You can call the radio station on your celly and request a song! Or Dial 911 to get a nice zippy police cruiser to your exact location. ALSO: GPS (MOTHERFUCKING FINALLY)
+ Multiplayer that is better than it has ANY business being. Cops & Crooks. There's really nothing else left to say.
- a bunch of stuff that ranges from niggiling details to fundamental design decisions, but nothing that's made me regret purchasing it (at midnight). Really, you've probably heard my complaints a million times over by now, so I won't bother. Haven't had the game crash, though. I have a Falcon board 360 - maybe I'm immune?
I think it's easily in the top 5 console games I've ever played, and I'm confident a first-party PC version would be in my top 15 on PC. It's not perfect, but it's very good.
And it's definatley GTA. I guess I never thought I'd see someone in this forum making a dig at the game specifically for sticking to its roots, but I have to admit this revelation modifies my overall perception of the NMA community (feel free to assume it's for the better).
I think in almost every case the changes in this iteration are for the better. How many sequels, by number 4, can even say that (just in case you get a wild hair to do the research on your own, I'll go ahead and drop a vital clue to get you started: it's a short list)? The only technical issues I've experienced gave been some pop-in of textures and geometry at various times (though not excessive, so far) and some loading times that seemed to stand out (there's plenty of loading screens, which speak to the normally quick nature of the loading speed that only a few are noticable).
+ No more (visible) stat building: it's not missed in the least.
+ ditching the cops is no longer a matter of running over a powerup; the player either ditches the cops or he doesn't. And if you're really in the shit, you probably aren't ever going to lose them. I fucking love all of that.
+ Individual vehicle physics specifically tuned for each car. You will hear, even in the positive reviews, how vehicle control will be an issue for some players. Thing is, most of them learn the point is to add a level of strategy to the game not previously afforded, and grow to appreciate it. Don't expect your faux 1983 Cadillac Sedan Deville D' Elegance to nail that 90° turn at 110MPH like you would in your faux Mercedes SLK 230 and you'll be fine.
+ Combat, while kind of button-combination heavy, is way more engaging and satisfying then any other GTA. That's probably not saying a lot to anyone who's played any of the previous GTAs, but to those of you who haven't and reviewed tham anyways - it's really better.
+ Choice and Consequence? Just the bare minimum, but it's there! Choose between rival factions by executing the leader of one to gain social currency with the other. Or go to execute them then have a change of heart and let them skip town. It's had an effect on the story so far, but I haven't finished the main campaign so I can't tell you if it has a really big impact on the game by the end, but so far... functionally tons more depth than its predecessors. (which again, is what it is.)
+ a likeable protagonist?! Sure, CJ was charismatic for a brutal sociopath, but Niko is actually sympathetic somehow, and instead of losing my shit and starting a riot after every hour of play, I find myself putting a lot more effort in keeping my avatar alive and employed. If this because the writing is so much better, or just that the game so much less frustating thanks to the improvements? You can't MAKE me choose, buster!
+ The presentation, while always the hallmark of the series, is better than ever. There is an almost embarassing ammount of fictional game-world content programming; imagine Morrowind's books as TVs and radios. And a good bit of it is integrated into interactive gameplay. You can call the radio station on your celly and request a song! Or Dial 911 to get a nice zippy police cruiser to your exact location. ALSO: GPS (MOTHERFUCKING FINALLY)
+ Multiplayer that is better than it has ANY business being. Cops & Crooks. There's really nothing else left to say.
- a bunch of stuff that ranges from niggiling details to fundamental design decisions, but nothing that's made me regret purchasing it (at midnight). Really, you've probably heard my complaints a million times over by now, so I won't bother. Haven't had the game crash, though. I have a Falcon board 360 - maybe I'm immune?
I think it's easily in the top 5 console games I've ever played, and I'm confident a first-party PC version would be in my top 15 on PC. It's not perfect, but it's very good.
Bodybag said:
Eh?
I'm unsure what exactly you're responding to, nobody was making a dig towards the game sticking to its roots.
I've read up on GTA IV and its response doesn't match up with its 10/10 ratings. It's a GTA game that doesn't add or detract from the series, which is a solid game-making philosophy also often applied by Blizzard. But a GTA game that doesn't add or retract is "just" a really good game. A borderline great game, even. That I don't know, 'coz I haven't played it.
I like the GTA series, a lot, and always dug how its changes never really made a major impact on the core of the series, which has always been solid and steady. I welcome a sequel that holds it up with open arms, but I don't bend down to worship it. Because - hell - the series isn't a 10/10 series, to begin with.
All that kind of hype can do is make me less interested. Not so much in playing the game, 'coz I'm sure I will sooner or later, but when every bit of coverage is "omg I just had a Grand Theft Orgasm!", it's almost best to just put the game out of your mind rather than follow all this slosh.
You're reacting as if I pissed on a holy cow. Fanboy much?
Bodybag
Look, Ma! Two Heads!
No one is arguing that it, or any, game, deserves 10/10. I thought that was something we agreed on going into this? My point is even in the face of such overwhelming hype, GTAIV manages to be superb in spite of it, not simply because of it. And whoever gave you the impression that it didn't add anything to the series failed to communicate just how much better it is than any previous GTA game (lots). And that's before you factor in the multiplayer aspect, which is certainly no trivial addition.
They say if you live long enough, you'll witness a miracle. I hope I live long enough to witness a better one, though.
They say if you live long enough, you'll witness a miracle. I hope I live long enough to witness a better one, though.
Jiggly McNerdington
Look, Ma! Two Heads!
I'm posting to scribble my name on Bodybag's big GTA4 post. The more I play of it the more I enjoy it. In fact, I'll copy-paste a couple of my little GTA4 stories I scribbled down elsewhere.
Cool stupid thing I did earlier, went and played a game of pool to check it out. After the game was done, I picked up a ball, walked outside, and threw it at a guy. He got pissed and started trying to kick my ass, so I dialed 911 and called the cops while running away. Soon enough 3 cop cars show up, the cops jump out and start shooting. The guy who was attacking me pulls out a pistol while two nearby guys pull out shotguns. I stood back and watched a good 5 minute shootout between 'em, until only one of the shotgun guys was left alive, wounded and slowly limping away with a cop following him. Eventually the guy ran out of road and the cop shot him, commandeered a car, and drove back to the other cops.
Ok, another stupid thing I did. I saw a jump ramp over this chasm. I was in a big fat SUV, but I figured what the fuck I'm too lazy to go try to get a faster car. So I gun it and hit the ramp at maximum speed, I SAIL MAJESTICALLY THROUGH THE AIR IN SLOW MOTION, THINGS ARE LOOKING GOOD, but then I slam nose-first into the wall on the other side of the chasm. Fortunately, Niko doesn't wear a seatbelt, and was ejected through the windshield by the force of the crash, landing relatively safely on the street as the SUV plummeted down the pit.
Quite a pile of fun mission related stuff too, but those have been my two best dicking around moments, which have been relatively few as I've been enjoying the missions more.
Cool stupid thing I did earlier, went and played a game of pool to check it out. After the game was done, I picked up a ball, walked outside, and threw it at a guy. He got pissed and started trying to kick my ass, so I dialed 911 and called the cops while running away. Soon enough 3 cop cars show up, the cops jump out and start shooting. The guy who was attacking me pulls out a pistol while two nearby guys pull out shotguns. I stood back and watched a good 5 minute shootout between 'em, until only one of the shotgun guys was left alive, wounded and slowly limping away with a cop following him. Eventually the guy ran out of road and the cop shot him, commandeered a car, and drove back to the other cops.
Ok, another stupid thing I did. I saw a jump ramp over this chasm. I was in a big fat SUV, but I figured what the fuck I'm too lazy to go try to get a faster car. So I gun it and hit the ramp at maximum speed, I SAIL MAJESTICALLY THROUGH THE AIR IN SLOW MOTION, THINGS ARE LOOKING GOOD, but then I slam nose-first into the wall on the other side of the chasm. Fortunately, Niko doesn't wear a seatbelt, and was ejected through the windshield by the force of the crash, landing relatively safely on the street as the SUV plummeted down the pit.
Quite a pile of fun mission related stuff too, but those have been my two best dicking around moments, which have been relatively few as I've been enjoying the missions more.
Without having played GTA4, i could make a pretty safe assumption that's it's very good. The previous games in the series have deserved every whisper of praise they've gotten, and the biggest reason not to get GTA4 would be if you're somehow burned out on GTA as a whole. They do so much, and do so much right.
I have to admit that despite not really being a GTA fan (my wife was the one who wanted the game), GTA4 does have some truly great fictional in-game content, as Bodybag mentioned. Some of the TV shows you can sit around and watch are better than the actual game itself. And I've always enjoyed the parodic radio commercials.
The backlash is to be expected, though, when most reviewers are having "grand theft orgasms", as BN put it. Btw, is it just me or is it way too easy to escape from the cops in GTA4? Not to mention it's difficult to attract their attention early in the game. I was mowing down pedestrians and driving like a drunken retard in full view of police cruisers and not a single one of them went after me.
Oh, and on my 40gb PS3 I've experienced no less than 3 complete freezes - they didn't crash the game, but they did interrupt it for at least a good 30 seconds. Some people seem to have no problems at all.
The backlash is to be expected, though, when most reviewers are having "grand theft orgasms", as BN put it. Btw, is it just me or is it way too easy to escape from the cops in GTA4? Not to mention it's difficult to attract their attention early in the game. I was mowing down pedestrians and driving like a drunken retard in full view of police cruisers and not a single one of them went after me.
Oh, and on my 40gb PS3 I've experienced no less than 3 complete freezes - they didn't crash the game, but they did interrupt it for at least a good 30 seconds. Some people seem to have no problems at all.
Bodybag
Look, Ma! Two Heads!
Sorry for carjacking this thread into a GTAIV discussion, but the game is just too good to not keep discussing it. Except when I'm playing it, I mean.
Losing the cops is about the same for 1 star, and maybe a little easier for 2 stars, but from 3 and up it takes some fucking effort. Finding the gold badges and using a spray n pay in the previous games were actually tons easier than trying to shake the heli coverage in IV. Also, the lenghtier cop chases lend far more opportunities to recreate your favorite film chase scene, or episode of World's Scarriest Police Chases, ect. Emergent gameplay!
And as good as everything else is, the story alone is compelling enough to keep playing. I'm a little over halfway through the game (I think) and so far I cant think of another video game story that's managed to suck me to the degree GTA4 has managed to. No longer am I doing missions just to advance my progress, I genuinely can't wait to see what happens next.
Losing the cops is about the same for 1 star, and maybe a little easier for 2 stars, but from 3 and up it takes some fucking effort. Finding the gold badges and using a spray n pay in the previous games were actually tons easier than trying to shake the heli coverage in IV. Also, the lenghtier cop chases lend far more opportunities to recreate your favorite film chase scene, or episode of World's Scarriest Police Chases, ect. Emergent gameplay!
And as good as everything else is, the story alone is compelling enough to keep playing. I'm a little over halfway through the game (I think) and so far I cant think of another video game story that's managed to suck me to the degree GTA4 has managed to. No longer am I doing missions just to advance my progress, I genuinely can't wait to see what happens next.
Jiggly McNerdington
Look, Ma! Two Heads!
Yeah, the missions on the whole have been much better. Haven't hit one yet that I repeatedly fail, unlike the goddamn flying missions in San Andreas. Best one yet is probably very minor spoiler: The bank robbery. Some pretty amusing writing during that one, and the big escape was a hell of a lot of fun.