Please, enlighten me, the brainwashed victim of propaganda.
More mud on the already tarnished reputation of Israels Army
- Thread starter Chancellor Kremlin
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the_cpl
Where'd That 6th Toe Come From?
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that totally depends on what he means.Wooz said:
US soldiers were far more likely to execute captured (including surrendering!) soldiers on the front because they had been indoctrinated for years how evil the germans were (and the japs later too).
this was less the case for the British, Free French, Belgian, etc allied armies.
this was obviously quickly sweeped under the rug by the winning party. the victor writes history.
germans were however much more likely to treat their POW's better. except for russians. because everyone knows slavs are subhuman.
but that said, claiming germans to be a moral army (even if you'd only say the Heer)? euhm, no... just no...
the_cpl
Where'd That 6th Toe Come From?
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The Guardian
It Wandered In From the Wastes
SuAside said:
Of course, what kind of person would I be if I claimed the Germans to be an army at all.
And yes, I specifically meant the Heer were a moral army, relative to every Allied army. History is written by the victors.
Seriously though, compared to the Soviet Army, who cannibalized captured German soldiers, raped even their own women, and then supported the larget genocide (against non-communists and Germans especially in Eastern Europe), the Germans were saints.
Did you catch that?
Saints.
SSteve said:
Sorry kamrade, missed this. Pay no heed to what I wrote.
Carib FMJ
Nuka-Cola Chaser
In every army, I suppose you have those who are moral and those who weren't. There were cases of German soldiers killing their SS commanders to save civies, as they saw the death to be unnecessary. Just like you had some Japanese Soldiers who had a sense of chivalry and didn't brutalize their captives.
Hell there were SS (very few) who had some sort of moral compass.
And Guardian, I wouldn't go as as far to call the German saints. The killings of Kiev and shooting women and children weren't pretty good for their rep or the Concentration camps that ran day and night killing not just Jews, but other peoples who had opposed or didn't fit in with Adolf's schemes...
And let us not forget the Imperial Japanese Army that ravaged the Pacific?
Did the allies go over board? Yes.
its war and it gets personal.
The Soviet Army did some evil things, and the Allies were wrong to ignore that.
A moral army is a myth. You can't make it romantic. I got the scars and I know. I am not saying the Invasion of Iraq or Afghanistan is anything like the struggles of WW2, but its as much close to combat as I know as a line unit soldier.
Hell there were SS (very few) who had some sort of moral compass.
And Guardian, I wouldn't go as as far to call the German saints. The killings of Kiev and shooting women and children weren't pretty good for their rep or the Concentration camps that ran day and night killing not just Jews, but other peoples who had opposed or didn't fit in with Adolf's schemes...
And let us not forget the Imperial Japanese Army that ravaged the Pacific?
Did the allies go over board? Yes.
its war and it gets personal.
The Soviet Army did some evil things, and the Allies were wrong to ignore that.
A moral army is a myth. You can't make it romantic. I got the scars and I know. I am not saying the Invasion of Iraq or Afghanistan is anything like the struggles of WW2, but its as much close to combat as I know as a line unit soldier.
The Guardian said:zag said:
A moron army? What is that, an army with moronic generals (Poland) or an army with moronic soldiers (USSR)?
Wooz said:
"Lol lets get ourselves killed tryiing to take over ze world, Fritz.
Fur ze Mutterland, ze Fuhrer und fur ze Nazion."
Thats a moron army right there if i ever saw one.
Almost comparable to that moronic rhetoric.zag said:
maximaz
Sonny, I Watched the Vault Bein' Built!
It's surprising that this has been brought up. Not every country would investigate or even aknowledge such acts of their own armies.
Compare this to Russia, where a colonel convicted of rape and murder has been paroled and has not been given any dishonorable discharge of any kind.
On the other hand, Israeli army is responsible for a lot worse overall. What about all the other thousands of civilians killed? They don't matter because they weren't shot at point blank range? These reports or investigations are pretty much a show that actually attempts to elevate the moral status of their army because they supposedly investigate things.
Compare this to Russia, where a colonel convicted of rape and murder has been paroled and has not been given any dishonorable discharge of any kind.
On the other hand, Israeli army is responsible for a lot worse overall. What about all the other thousands of civilians killed? They don't matter because they weren't shot at point blank range? These reports or investigations are pretty much a show that actually attempts to elevate the moral status of their army because they supposedly investigate things.
The Guardian
It Wandered In From the Wastes
I fail to see the similarities between the ideology of personal Wehrmacht soldiers and the expression of opinion of certain members of this forum board.Dragula said:
The only thing you've seen are Hollywood movies, period.zag said:
The Wehrmacht were comprised of saints.Carib FMJ said:
Utter saints.
They spilt blood to stop Stalin from conquering Europe, anything that they allegedly did along the way is utterly justifiable in these circumstances, and more moral than any masturbatory "police action" the West has committed in the last 70 or so years. The Reich died in a glorious maelstrom of conflict, while our nations will die coughing up black coagulated shit we've been swallowing for years.
The Soviet army was but a stone in the pond. The crimes committed by ALL Allied forces are unforgivable, members of the Wehrmacht would not even have considered some of the horrors possible which the US exacted on the civilians in the post-war period.
And the crimes of Germanic barbarians were all unforgivable as were the atrocities performed in feudal power struggles.
Either you be trollin' or you take the "victors write history" line too seriously, they indeed do, but not to the extent that you think, you sound like the South African white supremacists who compiled scads of flimsy evidence supporting their suppositions that the blacks are the root of all problems in the country, we can make a lot out of nothing if we just say whatever evidence we want to support our claims actual do support it, even if in case they do not!
Germany's military in WWII was superbly trained, exceptionally disciplined and was a brilliant fighting force, however they committed atrocities, the Allies did, all members of the Axis did, let's compile the various examples and reach aimless conclusions. I raise the Nanking Massacre, your tip of the hat?
Either you be trollin' or you take the "victors write history" line too seriously, they indeed do, but not to the extent that you think, you sound like the South African white supremacists who compiled scads of flimsy evidence supporting their suppositions that the blacks are the root of all problems in the country, we can make a lot out of nothing if we just say whatever evidence we want to support our claims actual do support it, even if in case they do not!
Germany's military in WWII was superbly trained, exceptionally disciplined and was a brilliant fighting force, however they committed atrocities, the Allies did, all members of the Axis did, let's compile the various examples and reach aimless conclusions. I raise the Nanking Massacre, your tip of the hat?
The Guardian
It Wandered In From the Wastes
Eyenixon said:
Germanic barbarians? You mean the Franks who wiped up that shit hole called the SPQR?
Totally justifiable - SPQR was a multicultural state doomed for failure. The Germans just gave that failure of a state what it needed.
This will lead to chaos. There are still Chinese living in Nanking. Are there still "Donau Schwabians"? No. Besides, I'm not saying the Wehrmacht did not commit any crimes at all, like Carib FMJ stated, it was war, and that shit gets personal.
Doesn't change the fact that compared to your god-awful criminal scum armies the Wehrmacht were saints.
S
Stag
Guest
You guys are retarded.
Carib FMJ
Nuka-Cola Chaser
You forget it was the Germans who attacked the Russians... And oddly enough, both Russia and Germany took part in the carving up of Poland. And I spoke to a former member of the old German army and he told me plainly, The Reich brought the Reds on their heads.
Germany's policy towards the Soviets wasn't kind nor was it as fair as they treated the other allies... So when the Russians got to move, they did so with the same, if not more determination to wipe each other off. The Eastern Front war was very personal.
Don't get me wrong, I am not saying the Russians methods were sound, but if someone came invaded your home, killed your family, dumped you in some ditch, I'd be pretty pissed off... Or say shot your comrades as your surrendered.
We can all try to be romantic and say this person was right or wrong. The German army - minus the Gestapo and the SS - were perhaps honorable career soldiers. The fact that some Officers and regulars soldiers tried to stop Hitler is commendable.
Was Stalin bad, very... Had the allies listened to Patton and forced the Russians back to Russia, the cold war perhaps wouldn't have been what it is.
Anyhow, I have went on. I don't know what your angle is Guardian, but I suppose you have your reasons. You never know the situation unless you are there, breathing in the dust, the scent of gun powder and blood.
But that is the nature of war. You de-humanize a man and it makes it easier if not more justifiable to kill him. After all, you don't lament killing a roach, do you?
Germany's policy towards the Soviets wasn't kind nor was it as fair as they treated the other allies... So when the Russians got to move, they did so with the same, if not more determination to wipe each other off. The Eastern Front war was very personal.
Don't get me wrong, I am not saying the Russians methods were sound, but if someone came invaded your home, killed your family, dumped you in some ditch, I'd be pretty pissed off... Or say shot your comrades as your surrendered.
We can all try to be romantic and say this person was right or wrong. The German army - minus the Gestapo and the SS - were perhaps honorable career soldiers. The fact that some Officers and regulars soldiers tried to stop Hitler is commendable.
Was Stalin bad, very... Had the allies listened to Patton and forced the Russians back to Russia, the cold war perhaps wouldn't have been what it is.
Anyhow, I have went on. I don't know what your angle is Guardian, but I suppose you have your reasons. You never know the situation unless you are there, breathing in the dust, the scent of gun powder and blood.
But that is the nature of war. You de-humanize a man and it makes it easier if not more justifiable to kill him. After all, you don't lament killing a roach, do you?
The Guardian
It Wandered In From the Wastes
In many cases it can be epiphanic.Carib FMJ said:
The worst kind of psychopathic monster. 100 times worse than Hitler on a drug binge.
Things would have been much better if the Allies had concluded a separate peace with Germany and back-stabbed the USSR, and wiped it out in favor of a neutral or fascist Russian land. It would have saved many lives from decades of daily horror under the Bolshevik scum.
Damn right. Single most heroic thing of last century, and yet to be topped in this one.
Also, it was not just Germany, but a multinational, pan-European force.
I disagree, had Hitler died during the war, the Reich would not have lasted as long, and things for Europe would have been much worse. At least with Hitler, Europe had a chance.
Are you trying to justify cannibalism? Russian methods were gruesome and horrible. It would have been better if Russia collapsed in '43 or '44.
Both nations had justifiable reasons, but Germany saved many lives by ending that psychopathic nation's grip on the corridor.
The Guardian said:
Dude you realize this ...internet thing is an... international thing right?
INTERnational NETwork? With subhuman slavs and all?
If you haven't ever spoken to anyone that has seen a wehrmaht officer up close, fuck you.
Even more so if you've never set foot on europe.
guess what.
The nazis lost miserably for following a moronic racist ideology covering up germany's need for, as hitler put it, "vital space". and consequently underestimating the rest of the world as "subhumans". They weren't heroicly defending anything for anyone.
get over it.
Stalin was no saint, either, nor was Churchill. What people have pointed out multiple times in this thread in multiple ways is that you can't judge acts of war in an ethical manner, there's nothing ethical about it in the first place, it's dog eat dog.
Back on topic, Israel is the reich of today.
Ain't History a bitch.
JunWisewar
It Wandered In From the Wastes
Screw the who's right or wrong crap, Germany+so called pan-European force lost and humiliated because they're weak and steam rolled by the Allied(especially USSR). Same goes to the Japan.
They're like nerd in the school that tried to be a bully but in the end someone stronger pummel the crap out of them and the nerds lost their honor and pride.
They're like nerd in the school that tried to be a bully but in the end someone stronger pummel the crap out of them and the nerds lost their honor and pride.
SSteve said:
Then don't troll. Strike.
Your grasp of history is masterly, please continue.
Wooz said:
I'm more a fan of his artistic application of superlatives and absolutes.
I hope this thread goes on for a long, long time. I think I'm going to start reading in the mornings, in between Penny Arcade and PvP.
the_cpl
Where'd That 6th Toe Come From?
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