More realistic Weapon Statistics - a call 'to arms'
- Thread starter Dubby
- Start date
Do mind that muzzle energy shouldn't directly translate into damage for balancing reasons.
I did something similar, except the game includes elephant guns as well.
While it's sensible that a headshot with an elephant gun should pretty much annihilate anyone and anything, the high muzzle energy would have meant that it would kill anyone ten times over, even if they happened to wear the equivalent of power armour.
Simply scaling the damage down would have meant that a .22 gun would have required firing an entire magazine (and then some) in order to kill a first level character, though.
My solution was to set a threshold for the lowest damage guns could do and one for the highest damage and then simply distribute the guns by muzzle energy. The result was a nice gradient from a five-shot-kill of a level 1 char to an insta-kill of anyone but a high level char in power armour.
Of course the armour in that case worked differently because it uses DTs and DRs like Fallout 1+2, but the principle is the same.
I did something similar, except the game includes elephant guns as well.
While it's sensible that a headshot with an elephant gun should pretty much annihilate anyone and anything, the high muzzle energy would have meant that it would kill anyone ten times over, even if they happened to wear the equivalent of power armour.
Simply scaling the damage down would have meant that a .22 gun would have required firing an entire magazine (and then some) in order to kill a first level character, though.
My solution was to set a threshold for the lowest damage guns could do and one for the highest damage and then simply distribute the guns by muzzle energy. The result was a nice gradient from a five-shot-kill of a level 1 char to an insta-kill of anyone but a high level char in power armour.
Of course the armour in that case worked differently because it uses DTs and DRs like Fallout 1+2, but the principle is the same.
Hey guys,
I'm new here, but have been playing F1+2 for many years and would like to make a few suggestions re: new weapons, damage modeling and such.
- Please make all 4 weapons trees (Small Guns, Big Guns, Energy Weapons, Melee Weapons) have several viable choices for early, mid, and end game weapons if possible.
- IMHO, weapon condition should not have a large effect on damage output, unless the weapon is really falling apart. I would also argue that weapon degradation should be slowed drasticly in many cases.
- I'd love to see all mutants wielding massive, scrap-metal and junk fused homemade weapons, akin to the Rock-It launchers and Railroad guns of the vanilla game - yet they'd be so large and cumbersome that only a player with 10 STR would be capable of wielding them. Would give new meaning to the BIG Guns skill.
- To ensure new weapons aren't overpowered, give them to the player's enemies too! But please, is it possible to address the issue of enemies never running out of ammo? That's one of my major gripes with the vanilla game.
- Both F1 & F2 had their share of unique weapons that could only be acquired through luck - stumbling upon the correct random encounter for example - I'd love to see this in F3 too. (Solar Scorcher perhaps?)
- Call me crazy, but I'd prefer that the most powerful weapons in the game were constructed by the player using esoteric, hard-to-find ingredients and ultra-rare recipies - requiring the player to go to the same amount of effort necessary to acquire the MIRV, for example.
Speaking of MIRV, even such a ludicrous weapon as that wouldn't be scoffed at so much if the player had to construct it himself, and it was 1-shot only, for example.
- Speaking of construction, let players build weapons systems! Turrets for example, to defend one's hideout, autonymous bots to carry out search & destroy tasks, or how about those peksy mobile swords from the movie Screamers?
- Finally, giving the player the ability to upgrade his own weapons via the Workbench would be excellent. The usual things like silencers, extended clips, improved rate of fire and so forth.
- Given that 200+ years have passed since the war, wouldn't it be nice to see more weapons that are obviously the result of post-war tinkering?
It's hard to believe that Moira, for example, would be satisfied walking around with just an ordinary stock pistol. Instead she'd probably add some kind of rifle scope, change the caliber, maybe add one of those nifty laser dot pointers, a tanned brahmin-hide handle... you get the idea.
- I'd love to see larger-guage weapons cause much larger impact on their victims. Being shot in the chest with a combat shotgun for instance should throw the victim back a few feet, even if they survive the blast.
Oh and another thing - is it possible for fire from a flamethrower to spread between enemies? IIRC I haven't seen it happen in the stock game.
- The Enclave should be packing a new and DEADLIER breed of energy weapons.
In each Fallout game so far (F1, F2, Tactics) the arsenal of guns has expanded and become deadlier with each new episode.
I want to see this trend continue, and it makes sense that Enclave troopers should be regarded as the ultimate threat to the player. At the very least, I think a plasma minigun or a weapon of similar power would be appropriate.
Of course given the existence of power armor and Liberty Prime technology, a couple of Enclave battle-mechs or even tanks could be nice endgame challenges.
Sorry if my post has ended up a little wordy, but as you can see I'm a huge Fallout fan and am drooling over the possibilities the GECK allows.
I'm running the current version of the NMA patch and like it immensely, please keep up the good work!
I'm new here, but have been playing F1+2 for many years and would like to make a few suggestions re: new weapons, damage modeling and such.
- Please make all 4 weapons trees (Small Guns, Big Guns, Energy Weapons, Melee Weapons) have several viable choices for early, mid, and end game weapons if possible.
- IMHO, weapon condition should not have a large effect on damage output, unless the weapon is really falling apart. I would also argue that weapon degradation should be slowed drasticly in many cases.
- I'd love to see all mutants wielding massive, scrap-metal and junk fused homemade weapons, akin to the Rock-It launchers and Railroad guns of the vanilla game - yet they'd be so large and cumbersome that only a player with 10 STR would be capable of wielding them. Would give new meaning to the BIG Guns skill.
- To ensure new weapons aren't overpowered, give them to the player's enemies too! But please, is it possible to address the issue of enemies never running out of ammo? That's one of my major gripes with the vanilla game.
- Both F1 & F2 had their share of unique weapons that could only be acquired through luck - stumbling upon the correct random encounter for example - I'd love to see this in F3 too. (Solar Scorcher perhaps?)
- Call me crazy, but I'd prefer that the most powerful weapons in the game were constructed by the player using esoteric, hard-to-find ingredients and ultra-rare recipies - requiring the player to go to the same amount of effort necessary to acquire the MIRV, for example.
Speaking of MIRV, even such a ludicrous weapon as that wouldn't be scoffed at so much if the player had to construct it himself, and it was 1-shot only, for example.
- Speaking of construction, let players build weapons systems! Turrets for example, to defend one's hideout, autonymous bots to carry out search & destroy tasks, or how about those peksy mobile swords from the movie Screamers?
- Finally, giving the player the ability to upgrade his own weapons via the Workbench would be excellent. The usual things like silencers, extended clips, improved rate of fire and so forth.
- Given that 200+ years have passed since the war, wouldn't it be nice to see more weapons that are obviously the result of post-war tinkering?
It's hard to believe that Moira, for example, would be satisfied walking around with just an ordinary stock pistol. Instead she'd probably add some kind of rifle scope, change the caliber, maybe add one of those nifty laser dot pointers, a tanned brahmin-hide handle... you get the idea.
- I'd love to see larger-guage weapons cause much larger impact on their victims. Being shot in the chest with a combat shotgun for instance should throw the victim back a few feet, even if they survive the blast.
Oh and another thing - is it possible for fire from a flamethrower to spread between enemies? IIRC I haven't seen it happen in the stock game.
- The Enclave should be packing a new and DEADLIER breed of energy weapons.
In each Fallout game so far (F1, F2, Tactics) the arsenal of guns has expanded and become deadlier with each new episode.
I want to see this trend continue, and it makes sense that Enclave troopers should be regarded as the ultimate threat to the player. At the very least, I think a plasma minigun or a weapon of similar power would be appropriate.
Of course given the existence of power armor and Liberty Prime technology, a couple of Enclave battle-mechs or even tanks could be nice endgame challenges.
Sorry if my post has ended up a little wordy, but as you can see I'm a huge Fallout fan and am drooling over the possibilities the GECK allows.
I'm running the current version of the NMA patch and like it immensely, please keep up the good work!
agris said:
The problem here is that the Fallout world has become real-world when it introduced the 3D FPS. Id Software had the same problem with Doom3. Doom 1 and 2 were great but the world did not have the intense realism doom 3 had, so you could have super fast running, lesser enemies that could take heaps of damage, and so on. Doom needed changes needed to be made such as player physics, weapon effects and such so it would fit in a highly realistic 3D environment. Fallout 3 just gave the player a Booster shot of realism with its environment but the ballistics have not changed so its really goofy that headshots aren't critical, and heavy weapons really don't give the desired effect.
Ashmo said:
I concur. The US military did the same when they replaced the venerable 1911 with the Beretta 92fs. They simply looked at the numbers. I've seen demos where a .45 would take out a collapsable target in 1 shot where as the 9mm would take 3 shots. There are many variables that go into firearm ballistics.
Here's a little calculationI did to analyze firearm ballistics
(Muzzel Energy * Mass * Diameter) / Constant = Rating
Constant = A number that will reduce the rating to a number that is logical for your application.
This will give a better understanding for damage comparisons.
I had a nifty chart that compares ballistics of different pistol calibers. I'll try to find it.
Here's an educational video
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3zMpN_-pcas&feature=related
I will tell you what. I will create a new table and chart for all Fallout 3 calibers. My current chart only has 4 pistol calibers and 4 rifle calibers, and only 5.56 is present in fallout 3 
. So I will write up a new chart consisting of the following
Pistol
10mm
.32 cal
.44 mag
9mm (Planned for future use)
.45 (Planned for future use)
Rifle
5.56
5mm (I need to research this one because there are multiple 5mm types and i'm not sure which one has a military purpose)
7.62x39 (Planned for future use)
.308
.30-06 (Planned for future use)
.50 (Planned for future use)
If you have any calibers in mind that you want charted, please let me know.
. So I will write up a new chart consisting of the following Pistol
10mm
.32 cal
.44 mag
9mm (Planned for future use)
.45 (Planned for future use)
Rifle
5.56
5mm (I need to research this one because there are multiple 5mm types and i'm not sure which one has a military purpose)
7.62x39 (Planned for future use)
.308
.30-06 (Planned for future use)
.50 (Planned for future use)
If you have any calibers in mind that you want charted, please let me know.
