Most Hated Fallout Character

Discussion in 'General Fallout Discussion' started by YeeCop, May 29, 2017.

  1. mannawyadden

    mannawyadden It Wandered In From the Wastes

    138
    May 3, 2016
    They don't believe everyone is shit. Their goal was to re-establish a centralized government over the wasteland.

    Autumn wanted Project Purity so that the people of the Wasteland would see the Enclave as saviors and protectors, and become their loyal citizens.

    Eden secretly wanted to use Project Purity to kill off any mutations. When Autumn wouldn't go along with that plan, Eden tries to recruit the player to do it behind everyone's back.

    Colonel Autumn's motives:

    "When you see the Enclave, you see the United States government. We are authorized to restore order and civility, by any means necessary."

    "You're in a heap of trouble, kid. You're a traitor to the United States government."

    "The American people are worth fighting for. The future must be secured."

    "Once this facility is operational, the masses will flock to the Enclave for fresh water, protection, and a plan for the future."


    "Once you're dead, we'll finish off this pathetic Brotherhood and become the true saviors of the Wasteland."

    President Eden's motives:

    "The United States was great once, and it can be again. There are plans in motion to see that this happens within your lifetime."

    "We cannot move forward until humanity can gain a solid foothold in the world. To do so, we must rid ourselves of the mutations that have plagued us for so long. These "Super Mutants", Ghouls, hideous creatures..."

    "Please recognize that the fate of our entire country rests on this plan. Sacrifices must be made for the greater good."

    "Once we have re-established ourselves, and brought civilization to the lands around us, then we can return to the old world policies."


    Relations between Eden and Autumn:

    "The good Colonel and I disagree on how best to approach the problem of the Wasteland. He feels my methods are too extreme. He has allowed his humanity to cloud his objectivity."

    Why the Enclave and Brotherhood can't get along -

    It boils down to two factions in Power Armor that don't like each other. The Enclave would probably want the Brotherhood of Steel to disarm and surrender themselves and all their tech, and the Brotherhood isn't going to do that.

    Each faction also believes that the Wasteland would be better off if they were the ones controlling Project Purity, even though the the rightful owners are the scientists that built it.

    Enclave's POV:


    "The so-called "Brotherhood of Steel." Don't be fooled by their pseudo-knightly nonsense or supposed connections to the United States Army. These power-armored boy scouts are nothing more than common criminals with access to some antiquated technology. Criminals who have had the audacity to claim this country's most important military installation, the Pentagon, as their own personal clubhouse!"

    "The Brotherhood of Steel, in their arrogance, has claimed Project Purity as their own! They would steal the Enclave's work, steal America's water! It is only a matter of time before the traitors march on the purifier, and attempt to take it by force."


    Brotherhood of Steel's POV:

    "[The Enclave is] the greatest threat the Capital Wasteland has ever faced. The Brotherhood of Steel has encountered the Enclave before, you see. Over thirty years ago, back in California. They seek to control and destroy, all in the guise of restoring order."

    "I cannot -- I will not -- allow the Enclave to control the one thing that could bring even the slightest spark of hope to these people."

    "I had my reservations about engaging the Enclave. Their assault on the purifier forced our hand. We had no choice but to engage them directly."
     
    Last edited: Jan 17, 2019
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  2. yfk12

    yfk12 Degenerate who belongs on a cross

    321
    May 31, 2018
    I know he's meant to be annoying as hell and probably been mentioned already, but Oliver Swanick. I don't think I've done a playthrough of NV where I haven't murdered him.
     
  3. Norzan

    Norzan Vault Senior Citizen

    Apr 7, 2017
    Shows much difference there is between Autumn and Lanius. Lanius can only be talked down with 100 speech and it's a pretty valid argument. It also shows Lanius isn't a mindless monster beyond any reasoning.

    Even if his motivation had any background, Autumn is a poorly written, bland, terrible character with hardly any personality. He's about intimidating as one my cats and that's insulting to them because they can scratch really hard if they want to.

    All the Enclave had to do in Fallout 3 was do nothing for the majority of the game and stay incognito, let BoS pressed the stupid button to activate the purifier, then rush in with superior numbers and their better technology, and then claim they pressed the button to the wasteland. Instant win. Instead they make their plan needlessly difficult by enganging BoS, lose troops in the process, allow them to build their stupid robot and then lose in the end.

    It just shows how the whole story of Fallout 3 is stupid as shit and it doesn't work. Besides being a blatant rehash of the plots of the first two games without any of the reasons why those two worked.
     
    Last edited: Jan 17, 2019
  4. mannawyadden

    mannawyadden It Wandered In From the Wastes

    138
    May 3, 2016
    You have to realize that your ability to construct logical arguments is being severely hindered by your extreme bias against Fallout 3.

    The "better plan" you made relies on hindsight and omniscience, not taking into account the Enclave's point of view or the sequence of events in-game.

    - The Enclave didn't know the BoS had a giant robot and viewed them as a bunch of arrogant wasteland cultists that happened to have Power Armor, not as a serious threat.
    - They didn't even know that the BoS was interested in controlling the Purifier to begin with.
    - All they knew was that some scientists were working on a water purifier, so they swooped in with Vertibirds to take control of the project before it was activated. They sucked at diplomacy, so most of the scientists refused to cooperate.
    - James was killed and some of the other scientists escaped. Doctor Li swallowed her pride and asked the BoS for help.
    - Now the Enclave has already taken control of Project Purity. One of the scientists is a turncoat and lets them know what's needed to activate it.

    Now, you're saying that at this point in the game, the Enclave should've just packed up, gone back to Raven Rock, pretended to have given up, sat back and let some other group take control of the Jefferson Memorial just to let them turn it on for them. This is where your argument collapses.

    - How do they know who's going to take control of it once they leave? Raiders? Scavengers? Scientists? The Brotherhood of Steel?
    - How are they certain that the Brotherhood, or whatever group moves in, will successfully activate the Purifier?
    - How would they know know the exact moment when the Purifier is activated?
    - How can they be sure that information and propaganda won't spread in the meantime, painting the Enclave as tyrants, not the saviors they want to be seen as?
    - How certain are they that the Purifier won't be damaged or destroyed during the conflict, or self-destructed by its controllers, when they launch an attack to retake it?
    - If they already have one of Project Purity's scientists on their side, why would they feel the need to let someone else activate the Purifier for them?

    If their objective is to control the Purifier, and they already control the Purifier, and they have an overwhelming advantage in strength, it makes the most sense from a military standpoint to defend the structure until their scientists can bring it online, not to abandon their objective and let someone else do it for them. The Enclave's mistake was underestimating the Brotherhood of Steel and not using their full strength to defend the Jefferson Memorial.
     
    Last edited: Jan 17, 2019
    • [Rad] [Rad] x 1
  5. Squadcar

    Squadcar I'm spinning

    Jun 1, 2018
    I mean, they're the same people that wanted to eradicate nearly all of the human population on the continent because they had genetics that were different from them due to post-war radiation/mutation. Now they want to control those people that they believe aren't even human in an attempt to save America? :scratch:

    I mean sure, Fallout 3 completely ignores this, but I don't. Also, just like the Brotherhood of Steel and the Supermutants are just shoved into the game because they're the Fallout heroes and villains.

    It's like if I asked you to play the first two games and make a third game based off of it. Then I take a look at it and it's like you didn't really understand why Supermutants were the enemy in the first one and the Enclave in the second. It's literally the two old antagonists of the games shoved into a third title.

    If you've played the first two games, they make no sense at all. If you only played Fallout 3 and beyond, I guess the Enclave make sense as in they're a group that wants to be the good guys and they hate the non-humans and want them eradicated. But they're willing to expend lives against a teenager and a technology cult for a water purifier that's gonna be turned on either way. And not only that, have that technology cult become the Fallout 3 Enclave 2.0 in Fallout 4.
     
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  6. Norzan

    Norzan Vault Senior Citizen

    Apr 7, 2017
    Nah, their plan is just that damn stupid, nothing to do with bias against Fallout 3. They knew James wanted to activate the purifier, so they all they had to was let him activate it and then rush in at that moment and take it. They would have the purifier activated to clean water and then use that as a bargain chip. It's that simple.

    What damage would even happen? There would only be scientists there. There would be no struggle to take it because the damn place has no guards.

    And if they wanted to know the exact time it was activated, just send a spy as a scientist. Done.

    Instead they for some reason decided to take it before it's activated, which is idiotic. This gave away their presence, allowed a resistance to be built to go against them and it made their plan needlessly difficult.
     
    Last edited: Jan 18, 2019
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  7. Millim

    Millim The Big Straight Orderite

    Oct 13, 2010
    Unlike others here, I actually like Fallout 3... A lot.
    ItsI just I know when something is off. There is no bias. I despise autumn as a character because he is completely useless as a character.

    If you take him out of the story, nothing changes.
     
  8. Norzan

    Norzan Vault Senior Citizen

    Apr 7, 2017
    The game would actually be better without him. We would haven't have to deal with someone regurgitating the same crap the Enclave already did in Fallout 2.

    And at least the Enclave was intimidating in Fallout 2, regardless of how stupid their plan and ideology is. Specially Frank Horrigan, dude is pretty damn intimidating.
     
  9. mannawyadden

    mannawyadden It Wandered In From the Wastes

    138
    May 3, 2016
    Originally you said that they should've let the Brotherhood of Steel activate it, not the scientists, so that's what I was replying to. As for letting the scientists do their thing:

    From the Enclave's perspective, what gives the project the highest chance of success: entrusting the project's completion to some uneducated Wastelanders who think wearing a dirty labcoat makes them a scientist, or taking control of it themselves and combining it with their own superior science and technology to see it through to completion?

    They don't barge in and demand that James activate the Purifier. What they did demand was this:

    "The person in charge is to step forward immediately, and turn over all materials related to this project."

    "Furthermore, you are to assist Enclave scientists in assuming control of the administration and operation of this facility at once."

    The Enclave either didn't trust the scientists to successfully complete the project, or to hand it over its secrets if it actually was brought online. It's possible that they even knew that the project had already been abandoned for nearly two decades - quite likely, since they would've seen the remains of the project if they ever investigated the Jefferson Memorial. When James insists that the facility doesn't function, Colonel Autumn doesn't care, and continues to repeat his demands.

    You can despise the character, but it's incorrect to say that he has no impact on the story. Colonel Autumn's aggression, violence, and lack of diplomacy in Project Purity directly lead to the death of the player's father.

    More importantly, Autumn is the only human at Raven Rock that knows Eden is a machine, and he refuses to go along with Eden's plan to contaminate the water at Project Purity. Because of this, Eden releases the player from their holding cell and invites him to his office in order to recruit the player to poison Project Purity.

    So Autumn's lack of cooperation with Eden is the only reason the player makes it out of Raven Rock alive.
     
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  10. NMLevesque

    NMLevesque Commie Ghost

    608
    Jul 2, 2016
    Eden regurgitated the plot, not Autumn. Kind of typifies how much you're ignoring or getting wrong here.
     
  11. The Master 2077

    The Master 2077 First time out of the vault

    19
    Jan 20, 2019
    Worst character? I say Lynette of Fallout 2... just an arrogant bitch... you can get the Master to listen to reason and not her wich says a lot...
     
  12. skadder

    skadder First time out of the vault

    2
    Feb 24, 2019
    >Navarro cast
    >even Arch Dornan
    Angry typing noises