Mr.Black Dude (A new playable critter for Fallout 2)

I must say the bald Black Dude looks much better than I expected. Maybe the Tribal model that you posted initially, .Pixote., blends too much with the brown pants and I was a little sceptical.

Also, the improved PIPboy image looks great!

Nonetheless, I would give priority to the redhead Female PC.
 
There's a certain lack of female critters, although I think we should get all the Male characters out of the way first. After all what other female characters can we make apart from the punk girl? Also we've got a race slider with nothing in it, which is sorta shitty.

Edit ; Also, I'd like to help with some of the FRMS for Black guy. But updates will be slow because of school etc.
 
i feel like "black dude" is a lot better of a name that mr. blackie. not even for racism reasons, but just because.
 
PastaMasta said:
After all what other female characters can we make apart from the punk girl?

- Redhead female PC
- Blond female PC
- Mohawk female PC (aka punk girl)
- Asian female PC (a yellowish skin tone, perhaps Asian female NPC hairstyle)
- Black female PC (Lynette's head)
- A brown-hair female PC (using the slutty/tramp female NPC as basis - I love her walking animation)

Pick your fav.
 
Hehe nice, you can count on me to make character images for all :wink:.

I have already made the black dude with hair, but that's for very later I see :mrgreen:.
 
memetics said:
Great ideas! Dunno tho, somehow the title "Mr. Blackie" just rings "racist" to me; maybe it's just me, but I can't think of a non-offensive context where I've ever heard "blackie" applied to a person. Maybe "Black Dude" or "Mr. Cool" or "Mr. Samuel L. Jackson"? heh ...

Its been changed to Mr. Black Dude...and fair enough the original title didn't sound too good, but the names for the new critters were just reference names, and no offense was intended.

As for the color of his skin tone, does anyone find him slightly too dark, some of the facial features might be lost with the shade I'm currently using.

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@PastaMasta - I added you to the list :wink:
 
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I think his shade of 'blackness' is just fine, but it's true the features are a bit lost (I see no face at all in the SW direction as he's putting his arm down).

I don't think anything can be done to prevent that, though - the original black critter also has no face.
 
In the interest of the game I'd avoid anything racist, even in satire. The intent might be obvious to you, and even to everyone else on the NMA forums, but it won't be obvious to everyone. There's nothing to be gained by opening that Pandora's Box.

Looks like a great addition. Good job.
 
memetics said:
Great ideas! Dunno tho, somehow the title "Mr. Blackie" just rings "racist" to me; maybe it's just me, but I can't think of a non-offensive context where I've ever heard "blackie" applied to a person. Maybe "Black Dude" or "Mr. Cool" or "Mr. Samuel L. Jackson"? heh ...

Really? it must be an english speaking people's cultural thing, having this overly delicate approach to some words which seem pretty neutral to non-english speakers. IMO, making it taboo through 'pc' self-enforcement and even talking about it is what makes it racist. As someone whose native language is not english i genuinely saw the term 'mr. blackie' as mentioned by someone else in this thread, merely as a lulzy innocent diminutive term in the same vein as 'mr. baldie'... now, my english language innocence has been tainted in regards to this word and whenever i see it in the future i will remember the racism attached to it by some people and therefore doubt both the word and myself. Thanks a lot. :P


P.S "Mr. Cool"? so black men = cool?, isn't that using a media stereotype to qualify a whole bunch of people only by the fact that they have similar skin tones? Hmmm... sounds racist, not all black men are 'cool', i'm sure many are dull and un-cool. :P


P.P.S on topic: that vault suit bald black dude looks really nice, very unique. True about the face, though, but i don't think it's too important.
 
If the face doesn't show the it doesn't show at higher resolution the face was already lost so I don't really think of it as a problem especially since the original was like this too but it has been said already by SkuLL anyway I like where this character heading.
 
The problme for this new critter, many, many versions can be done, that is the problem.

There is the home-brewed guy, the blackisle guy, and many versions without beard/ hair.

So, that will make zillions of anims, but in a certain way, new black critters for the game.
 
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@Pixote: Thanks for considering revising the thread title; you're a gentleman. (I think "Black Dude" is probably the term we're more likely to refer to this character as, anyway.) I don't want to belabor the point, but I think I should respond to (and acknowledge) some points foks have made. (BTW, I'm certainly not offended, nor do I advocate censorship as a rule; I'd simply hate for us to offend or unintentionally push away some current or potential future players / playtesters / modders, you know?)
x'il said:
Really? it must be an english speaking people's cultural thing, having this overly delicate approach to some words which seem pretty neutral to non-english speakers. IMO, making it taboo through 'pc' self-enforcement and even talking about it is what makes it racist. As someone whose native language is not english i genuinely saw the term 'mr. blackie' as mentioned by someone else in this thread, merely as a lulzy innocent diminutive term [...] P.S "Mr. Cool"? so black men = cool?, isn't that using a media stereotype [...]
Re: "cool" - I was thinking more along the lines of *this* Black Dude critter being "Mr. Cool." I agree that blackness does not equal coolness, but Samuel L. Jackson certainly == cool. :cool: Re: words and their connotations / interpretations: yes; it's all totally context-dependent (and therefore doesn't translate automatically). I'm sure there are words in anyone's native tongue considered offensive to some people because of the words' connotations / history. (Most languages have derogatory terms for women, for instance, that offend most women; also, calling a man by the same terms ["bitch," for example] is usually considered fighting words.) Also, I don't think we're self-censoring any more than it's self-censorship to avoid flame wars in most threads. The key issue is not whether words themselves should be taboo: the issue is whether we ought to be sensitive to how certain uses of words might affect others. In other words, it's an issue of politeness. Either we don't give a damn about others (and about getting along with each other), or we sometimes make an effort to pay attention to how our actions affect others... no?

I totally agree that as a rule, we should engage in frank and open discussions of racism and hatred (and censorship!) where needed. I would agree that consideration of other people (i.e., politeness), rather than mindless "PC" censorship, is what we ought to care about. (Preventing the discussion of certain terms definitely can perpetuate racism, X'il, which I think is what you were referring to with your PC censorship / taboo / racism comment, so I think we agree.)
Ghouly89 said:
In every context I've ever heard the term "blackie", it was for a lulzy effect, as in comedy sketches and whatnot. [...] the term "Blacks" was widely used to refer to African people. [...] It's purely naming conventions here.
Ghouly, sure: to be honest, the first thing "blackie" brought to mind was a Saturday Night Live sketch with Phil Hartman and Michael Jordan portraying blacks' integration into what then was all-white basketball. And yes, the term "black" was (and still often is) common and generally not considered offensive, but "blackie" is a different word, more like calling someone "boy": its use was more commonly derogatory and indicated a disdainful second-class status. It and "black-face" now are most often used in comedy/satire in reference to such offensive uses, but the power of those satires derives from the greatly negative historical uses / events that preceded the comic references to them.

@Goweigus: Robert Downey, Jr. was playing a comic character in a satirical movie (and not a great movie at that). Fallout is not satire; in the Fallout context, black-face would seem inappropriate - even despite Fallout's occasional humorous elements, which are a different kind of humor, I think. In "Tropic Thunder," though, perhaps it was appropriate.

Context is key!

Anyway, thanks for listening; no offense meant to anyone (nor do I mean to drag the thread OT); just seemed like something important that ought to be acknowledged / thought about.

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Anyway, I think the build is totally on the right track :ok: , and I look forward to seeing the artwork come together and being able to play the new critter (next year, I expect)! And if I didn't have a full-time job and a wife and new baby to take care of, I'd be right in there helping out with the graphics as much as I could!

:crazy: Speaking of graphics / labor-intensiveness :aiee: : isn't there some better way to automate this whole process of character generation - such that three or four or a dozen different character "looks" could be built rapid-fire, just making slight changes to one or two layers of the artwork? I'm thinking, all characters have identical body positions for each animation, right? The clothes are different, the hair may be different (or lie on top of different parts of clothing, depending on the hair), etc. Couldn't someone build a set of layers in Photoshop for each frame so that the art only on certain layers would need to be swapped out for the set of animations - and could be done with more automation and therefore less time?

Say you wanted to update the red-headed woman to be brunette: rather than going in and having to draw circles around every head by hand, wouldn't it be easier to open up the "hair" layer, re-color it blond by palette (?) - not having to monkey with chopping the head off of the character by hand - and then simply re-combining it with the other layers to export the final brunette character animation? Better yet, "color: brunette" > export; "color: blond" > export; "color: brown" > export, etc. (Even better with creating a variety of mohawk colors, no?)

Or what about changing armor? One wouldn't have to worry about how the spikes on the metal armor interfere with the character's hair if the hair layer simply gets laid on top of the armor layer. Just swap out the armor layer for the new armor, export, and done.

I mean, it seems like that would require some significant additional development time in the front end, but couldn't something like that save a relatively great amount of time in the back end, if we keep making new character designs? It's been a long time since I've worked with Photoshop / layers, so please forgive my ignorance... but could it be done? Is it feasible?

-m
 
@ memetics - I thought about building master files that house all of the same animations (eg: running), with each direction - NE:E:SE:SW:W:NW - but there are up to 160 separate animations, with 6 appearance types - *Tribal - Vault suit - Max Leather - Leather Armor - Metal Armor - Combat Armor * (without the helmet). There are approxoimately 10 frames of animation for each action x 6 directions x 6 appearances = 360 layers in Photoshop. All up its 57600 frames of animation, and using that system (including the frame animator) each individual frame will require at least 6 to 8 steps. I've built new critters using that method, but I was never satisfied with the speed of the process.

With the system I used with "Mr.Baldie" I lowered the amount of steps, and time down to 30 seconds a frame - that's half an hour for a critter with 10 frames and 6 directions - modified and animated, in other words a completely finish "new" critter. Mr Black Dude requires 2 "actions" buttons - one masks the critter (you then select the skin area with the lasso tool), and the next action changes the skin tone and saves and closes the image. As long as you don't alter the dimensions of the original critter (eg: 100x50 pixel dimension, must remain a 100x50 pixel dimension) - even by a single pixel, when you reload the frames into the Frame animator it works perfectly.

There might be a better method, Josan and X'il have been doing this stuff for years now and might know...regardless critter building is slow and tedious work. :aiee:
 
You could give him dread locks, too, while your at it. After all, it could be the long hair version of the white character.
 
@.Pixote.: Ah; okay so the math really doesn't work out. Too bad. :=( It's really disappointing that it takes so much work to make new animated graphics!

I suppose making 3D models of critters would be equally futile?

@Carib: Dredlocks would be cool. Reminds me of the aliens in Buckaroo Banzai. :-)

-m
 
memetics said:
I suppose making 3D models of critters would be equally futile?

That would be the best way to go, the modeling wouldn't be too difficult, but to reproduce the same fluid animations would be difficult, but not impossible. There are threads around discussing this topic.
 
So, any progress on Mr. Black Dude? Just curious; I have enjoyed playing long-haired dude and bald dude and look forward to new character options. :=)

-m
 
I just finished a new Ghoul critter for Mutants Rising...so Mr. Black Dude has been on holiday, but as soon as get some spare time I'll finish the Vault Suit version of Mr. Black Dude.

And I've decided to scrap the Bald version, and will go ahead with the normal Black Dude, because there is less frames to make, and therefore less time to finish the critter...Baldie can come later - if at all.

Original Fallout 1 Black critter - and Bald version.

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Great! I was just reading the redhead thread and going to come back here to edit my post & say "what the hell am I saying - everyone's obviously busy & updates will come when they come!" - but here's your progress report, a pleasant surprise. My compliments :-)

Anyway, I'm one to talk - I have no business to bug anyone for status updates when I'm too busy myself to do any testing right now, even. :oops:

-m
 
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