My President Is A Bastard

So power is all the excuse needed?
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I said nothing of the sort. What I said is that we have a system as good anywhere in the world, and we have more power then anybody. We have every right......no, the obligation........to help spreading a similar system.

And no, I don’t think that a country being only: “as good as” has the right to judge other countries and ignore the rest of the world and do what it wants just because they called themselves the “liberators of the free world” and yadda yadda yadda…
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Ignoring the rest of the world? Wait, so our interacting with the world by attempting to establish stable democracies in places of the world that have never seen them is ignoring?

Liberators of the free world? Sorry it never happened in Portugal, but we did liberate the world......twice.

O shit, it did happen in Portugal. You guys where in WW1, right? Ever thought about how much fun it would have been to have German Zepplins flying over Lisbon?

I don't think Europe has an obligation to anybody but the American War dead, though maybe a little, but we have every right to call ourselves the Liberators of the Free World, after kicking German ass twice, Russians and Japanese once.
 
Power and wealth corrupts. It's a shitty deal, but I've come to accept it.

If I was Bush, I would've done this. I would've changed many things within our country, things that corrupt. Getting rid of corruption would be the first step. I would try really hard to improve foreign relations, it's always nice to have a friend after all. Then, I would let the world know, fuck with us, and you are going to get taken out. If I were going to Iraq, first, I would work really hard together with Arab nations, then the U.N. Trying to get approval from all I can. I would let know, that oil is not what I'm after. I fucking hate petroleum and the control on the world it has. I would push for better froms of energy and fuel, all this while working with economists and democrats to try and improve our economy. I would let the world know, that America is getting high of liberty and freedom, and we're going after tyranny with an iron fist, whether through military action or diplomacy. I would try and get more and more foreign aid to third world countries. Then I would try and get rid of our shitty laws like not being able to fuck a pineapple in one state (heard that somewhere) and shitty judges and courts. I would increase military and research funding, and try and get the jobless some jobs, and try and the lazy ones off their asses (not saying all unemployed are lazy!). All this while trying to get laid.

Phew....I meant to update that "If I were President topic" sooner or later. :) Ok, Murdoch, let the criticism fly. :roll:
 
ConstinpatedCraprunner said:
excuse needed? We have every right......no, the obligation........to help spreading a similar system.
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Please, do spread your system around the world, we are in great need to feel like this:

“Our economy is a trash heap. Schools are being close because of this stupid ass "no child left behind" act, even though the real problem doesn't lie with the school, it lies with the children and the way they're raised. Our privacy is being infringed upon all the time nowadays. I don't feel safe when I'm in an airport anymore. I'm afraid that I'm going to inadvertantly say something "wrong" and have a M-16 shoved up my ass and my head blown off”
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But still, you make an interesting point: yes, America did help in both great wars… Why? Why was its economy the most stable one? Why did it suffer least? When exactly did it decided to come to the aid of the allies?

And still? Above all of this, are you saying that your country has the right to judge others because it knows how to kill people??? Because, I have to handle that to you… you are great at war, I make George Carlin’s words mine: You are, indeed a “war-like” people.
 
Paladin Solo, your approach is exactly what I was thinking when I said: “Lead by example!”
 
Karkow, we aren't war-like people. Our leaders may be, but we aren't. You must also learn to target your anger at what you're angry at, not the people who are related to your target. If you do that, it just makes you look like an ignorant piece of shit.

Ok, so you hate our government, try and make it sound like you do, instead of sounding like you hate Americans.

Also try and look at the good things more often, focusing on shitty deals makes you depressed, angry, and like a teen, believe me.

You should've seen my earlier post about if I were president, wasn't well liked. But I've been told I've come a long way since then. Oh and thanks.
 
Yes, I agree Paladin-Soul.

Generalizing is what makes jerks… well… jerks… and I apologize for that, I should be more precise to were my anger is directed.

No one should generalize, and, of course I don’t hate Americans… actually I have a profound affection by things that the U.S.A can and has done… that is why it upsets me to see it in the state it is…

But what I said early can be an example of how a big part of the world looks at America these days… a “war-like people”. And who to blame? To the ones that give U.S.A a bad international name… sadly it’s its representatives and heads of State.
 
CC said:
Where do you live? Krakow I know is in Poland, but that's about as small as Mexico, so I doubt that. Slavakia?
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:eyebrow:

"As small as Mexico"?

1) Karkow is Portuguese
2) Krakow hardly has 1 million people
3) Mexico City has around 28 million people
4) Mexico's geographical/demographic size is roughly half of the US. That isn't exactly "small"

[/derail]

I'll be nice and contain the will to describe my thoughts and explicit views on the current US president, or US foreign foreign policy on the last 20 years.

Let's hit at the "If we're not perfect, but closer to perfect than them, why not replace them?" thing.

Because governments aren't old socks.

Any kind of democratic government needs to be brought up by its own people, to be embedded with the population's mentality. I doubt you can positively change a whole society's mentality in a day or a year by foreign military means.

The question here isn't "IF a bad government should be replaced" but more like "how should it be done".

IMO it shouldn't be polarized between neo-crusades or sitting on one's ass and total non-intervention, Leon Blum style.

Besides, Bush's a fucktard.
 
Like I said, power and wealth corrupts. I miss, even though I never saw, the old days of WW2, not the war, but the relatively "good" society we were. It's a hard choice, power and wealth, or "good" society and government. *sigh* Fucking world.
 
“Our economy is a trash heap. Schools are being close because of this stupid ass "no child left behind" act, even though the real problem doesn't lie with the school, it lies with the children and the way they're raised. Our privacy is being infringed upon all the time nowadays. I don't feel safe when I'm in an airport anymore. I'm afraid that I'm going to inadvertantly say something "wrong" and have a M-16 shoved up my ass and my head blown off”
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This is extraordinarily oppinonated and faulty in quite a few respects. The fact that you lacked to provide a name for the demegouge who wrote this says more then the actual rant.

But still, you make an interesting point: yes, America did help in both great wars… Why? Why was its economy the most stable one? Why did it suffer least? When exactly did it decided to come to the aid of the allies?
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How is this in any way bad?

Is America perfect? Nope. You can't expect us to enter massive world wars, that cost millions of lives, when many people did not think that an invasion of the American continent was even possible.

What are you suggesting, anyway? That America only helped when it was absolutely in it's own interest? What did France do? I don't remember France doing anything but appeasing to keep the Nazis in power before the war.

And still? Above all of this, are you saying that your country has the right to judge others because it knows how to kill people??? Because, I have to handle that to you… you are great at war, I make George Carlin’s words mine: You are, indeed a “war-like” people.
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We do have the right to judge. Of course we do. I don't know how you can even suggest that.

By that logic, who where we to suggest that the Nazis where bad, as that is exactly what the Baathists where.....Arab Nazis.

Frankly, you'r morally relitivist position is as intellectually and beneficially bankrupt as anything else conciveable. If we simply stuped to your logic (OMFG! YOU CANT JUDGE PEOPLE, YOUR NOT PERFECT!), our "example creating" would destroy all forms of internaitonal stability.

You forget that for centuries we tried our damndest to create a perfect example of what a nation could be. We did, only to realize that the Europeans where years away from destroying everything good in the world.

Whatever happened to the Treaty of Tordesillas?
 
ConstinpatedCraprunner said:
“Our economy is a trash heap. Schools are being close because of this stupid ass "no child left behind" act, even though the real problem doesn't lie with the school, it lies with the children and the way they're raised. Our privacy is being infringed upon all the time nowadays. I don't feel safe when I'm in an airport anymore. I'm afraid that I'm going to inadvertantly say something "wrong" and have a M-16 shoved up my ass and my head blown off”
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This is extraordinarily oppinonated and faulty in quite a few respects. The fact that you lacked to provide a name for the demegouge who wrote this says more then the actual rant.
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It was wrote by King of Creation a few posts above... how did you missed it?

Anyway...

Everybody can judge, I am judging you in this moment and I’m not even close to perfect…

…no one is…

But what I’m talking about is the need of getting involved with other societies.

I agree with Wooze69 on this… the problem is this all Crusade (and Bush Jr. said this exact word).

And getting to the point of destroying a country in the name of a Crusade… please! If a country is violating human rights, then, ok, the U.N should come in and depose its government, but not the U.S.A acting like the police enforcers of the rest of the world.

And why Iraq? Oh yes… WMD… yeah… so the problem wasn’t the violation of human rights… it was those weapons no one found.

It was all interests, all business…

And the problem with Europe at the time of the fascism and dictatorships was much more complex then that…
 
The United Nations is a rather worthless organization. The security counsel's decisions can be vetoed by a single vote, the United Nations failed to do a thing during the Cold War, which posed the entire world in danger. The United Nations is still largely useless, the inspector in Iraq allowed themselves to be shuttled around and kept away from anything important (they said that they were being interfered with, yet nothing was done).

Actually, Solo, people always want to relive the "Good Old Days." The fact of the matter is that no-one remembers how bad those days were. People are always dissatisfied with the present, it's a fact, people dislike their lot in general. The present is not any worse than the past, it's just unclouded by time, so we see it differently.
 
Something was done, there was a war remember. And in the end the inspectors that came after the war has also failed to find anything, exept of an bottle of something that can be created in gravfish.
 
Paladin Solo said:
Like I said, power and wealth corrupts. I miss, even though I never saw, the old days of WW2, not the war, but the relatively "good" society we were. It's a hard choice, power and wealth, or "good" society and government. *sigh* Fucking world.
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Good society eh? You mean the one where minorities were repressed and 'separate but equal' was the norm? Or the one where the US interned thousands of Japanese Americans just for their Japanese descent? Or the one where polio, smallpox, tuberculosis and a dozen other life threatening illnesses affected you? Or the one where a certain senator from Wisconsin could call you a communist and turn your life to shit? Or the one where corrupt dictators were propped up to the detriment of their people just because they woud play ball with the US? Oh wait, that is still happening.

And, how exactly can you miss something that you've never seen? Possibly by talking to grandparents who have? Or are you just writing without thinking again? And I stay on your case because your a better debater than your words bely, as I've stated many times.

-stops poking PS with a stick, starts poking Kotario-

Kotario said:
The United Nations is a rather worthless organization. The security counsel's decisions can be vetoed by a single vote, the United Nations failed to do a thing during the Cold War, which posed the entire world in danger. The United Nations is still largely useless, the inspector in Iraq allowed themselves to be shuttled around and kept away from anything important (they said that they were being interfered with, yet nothing was done).
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The United Nations is useless for many reasons, as I've stated in other threads, but to say that it is completely without merit and hasn't done anything during the Cold War is silly.

The UN provided a place for the superpowers and their blocks to discuss their problems, a forum, if you will, to air grievances. Such as Kruschchev's "We will bury you" speech or the US SecState's (?) "I'll wait till Hell freezes over" speech. Those two events alone give the UN a leg to stand on. Not to mention that no one else, not the US, World Bank, IMF or anyone else has the authority and interest to mitigate humanitarian plights throughout the world.

But the UN is not without its faults either, however this thread is not about the UN.
 
First of all, the UN is not just the Security Council, or the General Assembly. Too many people are ignorant to this fact. All the Economic Councils, from Africa to Western Asia, the Human Rights Commitees, the countless dollars of Humanitarian aid, and many other things still make the United Nations a useful tool. UNESCO, UNICEF, the WTO, the WHO, and countless other organizations are key groups in our world society. They help foster a better world for everyone.
If only people didn't flagrantly disrespect certain aspects of the UN, it would be a strong tool towards world peace and cooperation (and by people, I mean George Bush). But the fact of the matter is that millions of people would have died if the UN hadn't existed. They wouldn't have gotten all the aid from the UN, which got them food, clean water, medicine, education, so many basic things which the UN provided. Its mission is not a purely militaristic one, although too much attention is given to the security council. If only people actually looked at what the UN has actually done for the world, then they would see that it is still clearly useful.

WE THE PEOPLES OF THE UNITED NATIONS DETERMINED
to save succeeding generations from the scourge of war, which twice in our lifetime has brought untold sorrow to mankind, and
to reaffirm faith in fundamental human rights, in the dignity and worth of the human person, in the equal rights of men and women and of nations large and small, and

to establish conditions under which justice and respect for the obligations arising from treaties and other sources of international law can be maintained, and

to promote social progress and better standards of life in larger freedom,



AND FOR THESE ENDS
to practice tolerance and live together in peace with one another as good neighbours, and

to unite our strength to maintain international peace and security, and

to ensure, by the acceptance of principles and the institution of methods, that armed force shall not be used, save in the common interest, and

to employ international machinery for the promotion of the economic and social advancement of all peoples,


HAVE RESOLVED TO COMBINE OUR EFFORTS TO ACCOMPLISH THESE AIMS
Accordingly, our respective Governments, through representatives assembled in the city of San Francisco, who have exhibited their full powers found to be in good and due form, have agreed to the present Charter of the United Nations and do hereby establish an international organization to be known as the United Nations.
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I think that says enough.
 
Murdoch, I was talking about a society that was well liked, or at least, not as hated as we are today. But thanks for trying to make me look like a racist, facist, pig...I really fucking appreciate it.
 
Paladin Solo said:
Murdoch, I was talking about a society that was well liked, or at least, not as hated as we are today. But thanks for trying to make me look like a racist, facist, pig...I really fucking appreciate it.
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Then I suggest you make statements that are less ambiguous. I genuinely didn't see the quoted angle to your argument.

But even so, the other half of the world hated the US and everything its capitalist society stood for. And lets not forget how much our side of the world hated the communists right back. Now, you could say and I would agree that this hate was often artificial and fanned by the politics of the time; used to justify our stance against communism. In the end the people of the Soviet Union and United States are simply trying to go about their lives without getting dead, after all. Its just the little thing of politics and power that get in the way.

stupid civilization! :wink:
 
desdenova said:
I wish Jello Biafra would run for president....
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+50 Karma for the n00b. ;)

"There's always room for Jello"
Check out his new album "The clown with the machine gun".

I'm a pretty big Jello Biafra fan myself, good to see I'm not the only one around :)
 
Nice! I’ve got all of his spoken word stuff. If only more people in the world listened to Jello... there would be a chance for salvation, ahahahahahaaa!!
 
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