Nagasaki/Hiroshima 1945

RE: Please get to the point!

>If Washington D.C was destroyed by
>saboteurs from the enemy before
>the launch of the nuclear
>ICBMs, then there would be
>no government, no organization.

You can't expect the command of the entire USA takes place in the Pentagon do you? Maybe they discuss some of the aspects of war, but Pentagon is not the center of the USA military.

>Also,
>in most nuclear wars you
>would expect to see your
>own country being blasted by
>nuclear weapons. And who wins?
>A country with no army,
>or a country with neither
>government nor much of an
>army?

Think about it this way: You and a the neighbor hate each other. So you out into the street for a duel. Each of you have a revolver.

You shoot at each other, you take careful shots to injure him, he also injures you, but also spends his bullets shooting up your house. In the end, you're both injured, but you still have some bullets left and your enemy does not, and while your house may be in bad condition, you still have the upper hand because you managed your bullets.

-Xotor-

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RE: Hmm.

>1-I used fallout modelling software. Maybe
>it's inaccurate.
>2-Aren't there any nukes targeted at
>silos? Because you can't hide
>every damn shaft...

Oh yeah, there are probably lots of shafts targetted and discovered, but it is not like the enemy is going to carpet-bomb farmland to get rid of nukes.

Nuclear fallout doesn't exactly spread all over the planet, or at least highly radioactive fallout. I suspect that most farmland would be in good condition and it would be more of a matter of getting the food to people than worrying about clearing away contaminated dirt.

-Xotor-

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RE: Please get to the point!

>>If Washington D.C was destroyed by
>>saboteurs from the enemy before
>>the launch of the nuclear
>>ICBMs, then there would be
>>no government, no organization.
>
>You can't expect the command of
>the entire USA takes place
>in the Pentagon do you?
> Maybe they discuss some
>of the aspects of war,
>but Pentagon is not the
>center of the USA military.

No, the Pentagon is not the center of the U.S army, but it is the center of the U.S government.

>
>
>>Also,
>>in most nuclear wars you
>>would expect to see your
>>own country being blasted by
>>nuclear weapons. And who wins?
>>A country with no army,
>>or a country with neither
>>government nor much of an
>>army?
>
>Think about it this way:
>You and a the neighbor
>hate each other. So
>you out into the street
>for a duel. Each
>of you have a revolver.
>
>
>You shoot at each other, you
>take careful shots to injure
>him, he also injures you,
>but also spends his bullets
>shooting up your house.
>In the end, you're both
>injured, but you still have
>some bullets left and your
>enemy does not, and while
>your house may be in
>bad condition, you still have
>the upper hand because you
>managed your bullets.

Yeah, but think of it this way: You and your neighbor hate each other, go out into the street and start shooting at each other with revolvers, you shoot everything at him while he shoots you AND your family with his revolver. Another example: A nuclear war between the U.S.A and some other country. The two countries both lob their nuclear warheads on the other countrys military, but on both sides, some elements of the army survive. Now the other country tries to invade the U.S.A and land in New York where they are destroyed by the civilians that fight back with their own weapons, police and maybe some military.


Respect everyone, fear no one.
 
RE: Effects of a nuclear war

Yes, true... but remenber that public opinion is very important for a government during a war... if population is frightened and all that, expecting a strike everytime, maybe you dont destroy military and industrial targets, but it's also importants damages... mind damages

______________________________________________________________
you speak french ? or you want to learn french with fallout ?
OK! then go on http://www.falloutvault.fr.st/ you won't regret
it (i hope, i made it :o)
 
RE: Hmm.

>Oh yeah, there are probably lots
>of shafts targetted and discovered,
>but it is not like
>the enemy is going to
>carpet-bomb farmland to get rid
>of nukes.

Aren't the silos the primary targets? And it's not carpet-bombing unless there are more nukes in farmland than people (oh my god!!!).

>Nuclear fallout doesn't exactly spread all
>over the planet, or at
>least highly radioactive fallout.

No, not all over the planet, but definitely at least 100km.

>I suspect that most farmland
>would be in good condition
>and it would be more
>of a matter of getting
>the food to people than
>worrying about clearing away contaminated
>dirt.

Exactly. But not necessarily because it wouldn't be a problem, but because nobody cares about "some dust".

Well, if farmland is not punctured with silo shafts then, as I said before, there will definitely be pockets of unaffected land. Oh, and it depends on the time of the year when the attack occurs. In rainy season, when there are no crops on the fields, I wouldn't worry.




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I dont think nukes leave craters

Nuclear weapons detonate i think as a rule of thumb at 10000 feet this doesnt leave a crater if it did to much of the weapons energy would be wasted i could be wrong but i doubt it
 
RE: I dont think nukes leave craters

You proobably right, i dont know... i just want to add : Remenber FO1 map, near LA boneyard stand a crater half on the ocean... And it is a big one :)
________________________________________
you speak french ? or you want to learn
french with fallout ? OK! then go on
http://www.falloutvault.fr.st/ you
won't regret it (i hope, i made it :o)
 
RE: I dont think nukes leave craters

I may be wrong, but I think they do leave a crater that gets all filled with debris after a couple of seconds after the explosion.




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RE: Please get to the point!

>No, the Pentagon is not the
>center of the U.S army,
>but it is the center
>of the U.S government.

The Pentagon is essentially the center of the Department of Defense, not the government. For the most part I'd think of the Pentagon as the place were the executives meet for big tactical decisions. Why any of those executives would be there during a nuclear war however is beyond reason. It would probably be struct first.

>Yeah, but think of it this
>way: You and your neighbor
>hate each other, go out
>into the street and start
>shooting at each other with
>revolvers, you shoot everything at
>him while he shoots you
>AND your family with his
>revolver.

However I'm dealing with posessions here. There's no "family" within a country, maybe people, but those people don't have the same personal bond as a family. A leader who lobs their entire nuclear arsenal leaves themselves completely defenseless, since the remaining nuclear arsenal of the enemy can totally anihilate any offense or defense the leader has left.

>Another example: A nuclear
>war between the U.S.A and
>some other country. The two
>countries both lob their nuclear
>warheads on the other countrys
>military, but on both sides,
>some elements of the army
>survive. Now the other country
>tries to invade the U.S.A
>and land in New York
>where they are destroyed by
>the civilians that fight back
>with their own weapons, police
>and maybe some military.

Um, great, but what does that have to do with this?

-Xotor-

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RE: Hmm.

>Aren't the silos the primary targets?
>And it's not carpet-bombing unless
>there are more nukes in
>farmland than people (oh my
>god!!!).

Hehe, there probably *are* more nukes out there than people.

Most nuclear warheads are located in the same locations (as in there are lots at one place).

Info on nuclear silos in the USA: http://www.bullatomsci.org/issues/nukenotes/nd95nukenote.html and they even mention the Sierra Army Depot in Northern California.

>>Nuclear fallout doesn't exactly spread all
>>over the planet, or at
>>least highly radioactive fallout.
>
>No, not all over the planet,
>but definitely at least 100km.

Actually that really only occurs for extremely large scale bombs. The 13 Megaton thermonuclear bomb detonated in the pacific's fallout only had a spread of 200 miles, and that was with the help of wind. Most fallout scatters around the area of damage itself, not much further.

>Well, if farmland is not punctured
>with silo shafts then, as
>I said before, there will
>definitely be pockets of unaffected
>land. Oh, and it depends
>on the time of the
>year when the attack occurs.
>In rainy season, when there
>are no crops on the
>fields, I wouldn't worry.

Even then, people can depend on staple foods such as potatoes and other foods which are hearty and take little effort to grow.

Hell, potatoes supported practically all the poor people in Ireland before the potato famine.

-Xotor-

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RE: I dont think nukes leave craters

>Nuclear weapons detonate i think as
>a rule of thumb at
>10000 feet this doesnt leave
>a crater if it did
>to much of the weapons
>energy would be wasted i
>could be wrong but i
>doubt it

They leave impact craters, and that's why anti-nuclear silo ICBMs would be instructed to actually impact the ground so as to deal damage to subterrainian installations and silos. Most nuclear weapons would be used as air-burst based weapons like the ones in Hiroshima and Nagasaki, because they deal greater damage, and as a benefit, also produce much less fallout, if any.

-Xotor-

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RE: Please get to the point!

But maybe Pentagon owns some Vaults ? so they "dont care" about a nuke strike on them...
________________________________________
you speak french ? or you want to learn
french with fallout ? OK! then go on
http://www.falloutvault.fr.st/ you
won't regret it (i hope, i made it :o)
 
RE: Please get to the point!

>But maybe Pentagon owns some Vaults
>? so they "dont care"
>about a nuke strike on
>them...

It'd be pretty cool if the Pentagon would somehow sink underground into a secret underground base during wartime. I know that the building where the Constitution and other important documents lie in glass will lower underground in emergencies.

-Xotor-

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RE: Please get to the point!

Sorry, i meant that Washington D.C was the center of the U.S government, not the Pentagon. But if Washington D.C was destroyed by a bomb carried in by enemy saboteurs, then there might be some top brass commanders there.
 
RE: Please get to the point!

>Sorry, i meant that Washington D.C
>was the center of the
>U.S government, not the Pentagon.
>But if Washington D.C was
>destroyed by a bomb carried
>in by enemy saboteurs, then
>there might be some top
>brass commanders there.

They'd have to run over the fence with a dump truck or something and have the bomb in the back. The security is pretty good at keeping potential threats (e.g. boxes with bombs) away from the White House, it would have to be a direct attack with no warning..

Even then, while many important people would be dead, there would be many more to take over.

-Xotor-

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RE: Please get to the point!

>>Sorry, i meant that Washington D.C
>>was the center of the
>>U.S government, not the Pentagon.
>>But if Washington D.C was
>>destroyed by a bomb carried
>>in by enemy saboteurs, then
>>there might be some top
>>brass commanders there.
>
>They'd have to run over the
>fence with a dump truck
>or something and have the
>bomb in the back.
>The security is pretty good
>at keeping potential threats (e.g.
>boxes with bombs) away from
>the White House, it would
>have to be a direct
>attack with no warning..

Not if it was an atomic bomb, that would probably take out most of Washington D.C

>
>Even then, while many important people
>would be dead, there would
>be many more to take
>over.

What if all of the state capitals, plus Washington D.C, were destroyed by enemy saboteurs armed with nuvlear weapons at the same time? And the enemy then launched their ICBMs at the U.S military? First no government, then no military. Of course , new governments could be formed. I dont think a country would waste its nuclear missiles on targets like big cities though.
>
>-Xotor-
>
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RE: Please get to the point!

>Not if it was an atomic
>bomb, that would probably take
>out most of Washington D.C

True, but where you get enough plutonium to build a full-sized nuke and smuggling it in is another thing...

>What if all of the state
>capitals, plus Washington D.C, were
>destroyed by enemy saboteurs armed
>with nuvlear weapons at the
>same time? And the enemy
>then launched their ICBMs at
>the U.S military? First no
>government, then no military. Of
>course , new governments could
>be formed. I dont think
>a country would waste its
>nuclear missiles on targets like
>big cities though.

But then the command centers which are the *real* defense/offense centers would notice and launch the nukes, because they're inside mountains and underground bunkers which you'd need a nuke (or a few) to even penetrate.

-Xotor-

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Oi!

Id just like to say im from Australia and *ahem* fuck you

Also you're right, but its a fantasy setting dont get too carried away with realism. Did you notice how every sniper rifle in the world had been modified to .223 ammo......
 
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