NCR in New Vegas

@DForge

The problem is, he could have gotten funds through other enterprises which might have stabilized the region more and be more important in rebuilding the region than casinos. I mean he could have been the one selling food to the NCR, or other supplies to the NCR instead it's the other way round.
He choosed luxus good above necessary goods for survival - and that in a post-apoc world, where humanity is starving for survival goods.

I know what the endings say, but just think about what happens with the 'Torusims' when you throw out the NCR. The casinos are running because NCR soldiers are spending their money there.
A war against the NCR and they won't do this any longer. Even after the war the might have quite some objetctions against going their for vacations.
And that means he got his non-profitable casinos instead of ironworks. What means he still would have to costly import steel (if the NCR even would allow that) instead of being able to built it yourself and use it for his 'masterplan'.

@Crni Vuk
Yes, that what i meant with the damn. But also all in all speaking about explosives and MG's against close formations of 'light' infantry. Dug in infantry might withstand it better, so it would have been more interesting if the Legion would have held the dam...
But as i said, i still guess it's more of a engine limit that they don't show that 100 cannon fodders legionaires are coming onto one MG, or the legionnairies is also crossing the river through some means and attacking also from the south or north on the other side of the dam.

@Nalano
Yes you could argue about all that.
As it stands an 'enlightend' individual mustn't be successful in doing a country any good. And if you look that Ghengis Khan definately borught a bit more of unity and culture to some regions - he still lay wast to other regions. And than you could argue if that's a really good thing.
 
Bad_Karma, House isn't dumb and doesn't want to start war against NCR - notice he prefers to deal with them in a diplomatic way. NCR already fuels his pocket and not the other way around.

To start other enterprises, you need to settle a business that will ENABLE you to get money to do so (House already did this) and then SECURE the business so it's relatively safe (and this is what happens by the course of the game). Who knows what will be House's next move after his position is settled.

We can however be pretty certain what NCR will do, since it's modeled after a "normal" "democratic" country.
 
With scum like Nipton Mayor promoted to highest seats. NCR is as much about law as our modern world is. And we all know that model fails (and in Fallout universe, it fails CRITICALLY.)

I don't see your point here. The mayor of Nipton was from the NCR territories, but he was not affiliated in any way with the NCR government.

We can however be pretty certain what NCR will do, since it's modeled after a "normal" "democratic" country.

Well, I prefer a predictable democratic republic to an unpredictable genius who is almost dead already. As for his replacement, given how easy it was to reprogram Yes Man, for example, I wouldn't be so trustful.
 
Bad_Karma said:
But as i said, i still guess it's more of a engine limit that they don't show that 100 cannon fodders legionaires are coming onto one MG, or the legionnairies is also crossing the river through some means and attacking also from the south or north on the other side of the dam.
.
It definetly is a limitation in the form that the engine has a lot of trouble with several NPCs on the screen. So no mass armies without a serious trouble for the hardware. Its less an issue with the engine but more that Bethesda never worked on that and Obsidian probably had not the time to change that. Thing is just ... that its sad the game is so much focused around those "huge epic legion vs NCR" fighting trying to build up tension which in my case just simply didnt worked ... not when you have just a handfull of people fighting each other. Sorry not gona work for me.
 
I don't believe some people think that living under House would be more rewarding than the NCR think about it:

Does Mr House provide protection to outside of Vegas, no.
Does the NCR provide protection to small settlements any populace they can, Yes.

Does Mr House have a staple economy, no. If the NCR troops left, he would have no one else to bleed dry.
Does NCR have a staple economy, yes. Back west they have efficient trading routes, mines and quarries.

Does Mr House supply surrounding populaces with goods, no.
Does NCR supply surrounding populaces with goods, yes. They send caravans guarded by well trained guards to settlements and even small villages.

Does Mr House have a stable government, no. If House dies, Vegas dies, the Securitrons, if House was gone, would have nothing to protect anymore, and nobody is actually ready to succeed House.
Does NCR have a stable government, yes. If Kimball was to die, a new president would be voted in (I don't know why people are saying a crazy person might get in, their voted in, so that would be very hard to happen).

So who would be a more efficient and rewarding to live with House or NCR, I say NCR.

And for the people who have been saying NCR wrestled control of Helios One from the BoS for more power. But if you knew what actually happened it would make more sense. The BoS attacked, ambushed and destroyed NCR bases and mines, just because they thought the NCR had too much tech. The reason NCR took Helios One from the BoS is because they were at war, that's generally what would happen if two civilisations are at war with each other.
 
Does the NCR provide protection to small settlements any populace they can, Yes.

Oh yes. Primm being the prime example. (sarcasm) Wishing and doing are two different things. And NCR in Mojave is nothing other than incompetent.

Does Mr House have a staple economy, no. If the NCR troops left, he would have no one else to bleed dry.

Well, the assumption is that there will always be people who want to go to Vegas, not just one single group. Then again, House doesn't want the NCR out of Mojave, he just doesn't want their rule in Vegas proper. Seems like a reasonable symbiosis.

Does Mr House have a stable government, no. If House dies, Vegas dies, the Securitrons, if House was gone, would have nothing to protect anymore, and nobody is actually ready to succeed House.

That's the big problem with both the Legion and House. The presumption on House's part, though, is that he's virtually 'immortal'; but of course as most players know that's simply not true.
 
Ausir said:
I don't see your point here. The mayor of Nipton was from the NCR territories, but he was not affiliated in any way with the NCR government.

Nipton belongs to NCR land. The mayor must have been accepted by NCR authorities, right? Unless NCR doesn't give two fucks about who rules their cities, but I don't believe that.

Well, I prefer a predictable democratic republic to an unpredictable genius who is almost dead already. As for his replacement, given how easy it was to reprogram Yes Man, for example, I wouldn't be so trustful.

Yep, it's predictable all right - from the beginning till the unfortunate end. ;) It's the "predictable" part that makes me feel NCR isn't the best path for humanity in FO universe.
 
Mr Krepe said:
Does Mr House provide protection to outside of Vegas, no.
Does the NCR provide protection to small settlements any populace they can, Yes.

As we all can see in game, NCR doesn't do diddly dick. Putting powerless outposts of soldiers with an order not to do anything? Great protection.

House never claimed he rules the wasteland, or Mohave. And he protects well what is his (Strip) contrary to NCR, which fails to protect the land they annex.


Does Mr House have a staple economy, no. If the NCR troops left, he would have no one else to bleed dry.
Does NCR have a staple economy, yes. Back west they have efficient trading routes, mines and quarries.

it's like comparing a city based on tourism to a full-sized country like USA. House did create an awesome way to gain cash for his small empire. He's not a ruler of a country and hence can't be compared. Also, House doesn't want NCR to leave - he prefers to live in symbiosis with them.


Does Mr House supply surrounding populaces with goods, no.
Does NCR supply surrounding populaces with goods, yes. They send caravans guarded by well trained guards to settlements and even small villages.

Have you done Cass' quest? NCR doesn't protect caravans. In game, we meet caravans protected by mercenaries, never soldiers, too. The roads are completely wild and companies operating legally in NCR as far as I can tell (Crimson Company) are corrupt and violent.

Mr House supplies whats HIS pretty well. He never claimed the Mohave like NCR did so it's natural he doesn't supply people living there with goods. He also isn't a leader of a country and doesn't have the resources NCR has.


Does Mr House have a stable government, no. If House dies, Vegas dies, the Securitrons, if House was gone, would have nothing to protect anymore, and nobody is actually ready to succeed House.
Does NCR have a stable government, yes. If Kimball was to die, a new president would be voted in (I don't know why people are saying a crazy person might get in, their voted in, so that would be very hard to happen).

And the pre-war US government? has it elected itself? I guess not. The government that brought the end of this world originated from the democracy, voting and all that stuff. Just because they have been "chosen" by people doesn't change the fact they are still power-hungry oligarchs.

It's speculation on my part, but I'm sure Mr House has a plan about what will happen after his death.



So who would be a more efficient and rewarding to live with House or NCR, I say NCR.

Oh, I'm sure living in NCR is fine. Such is living in pre-war US. It was probably 10 x better than living in NCR.

And it all ended with a big boom. I simply think NCR (I'm speculating ;)) will ultimately lead humanity to the same fate again.
 
From what I know Mr. House spent over 800.000 caps in order to get the platinum chip, how would he get that money if not for the casino leasing and taxing ?
He simply seems the best choice for the future of humanity. The only way I see House dead is by the hand of the courier, but it's a rather touchy subject since...The Courier was granted access to Lucky 38 by House himself, getting inside to kill House seems very difficult and still, the option of some infiltrator is still possible.

The way I see it, you said he doesn't REALLY care about other people but I think that the first step of his plan was to acquire the platinum chip so he could get some stability on his robot army and also impose an image of strength for the people.
Even with no NCR to waste their money in Vegas, I think House would survive. Not everyone in Vegas is NCR.

And after all, what would he need the caps for after he gets the platinum chip? I see you try to argue that once NCR is gone House won't earn the same money or he won't earn at all, so what? Once he gets his hands on the dam, he gets his hands on electricity, which is ... one of the primary things he needs.
From this point onward he can only expand.

Now, maybe the tribals would be the ones who wouldn't like their casinos to suffer.
But House is smart enough. He could make some kind of ...march into enemy territories with both securitrons and tribals but make a uneven ratio between tribals and securitrons, so while he loses some securitrons he decimates the tribal power while still convincing them he has big losses.

Helios is another electricity provider, isn't it? He gets his hands on that too then secures a safe perimeter while he starts the political messages for gathering the favor of people, create some form of goverment or citizenship. Who wouldn't want to be protected by super robots? So with a safe perimeter and enough juice for his computerized army I don't see how an undying man who gathers more and more knowledge every year and doesn't get distracted by sex and is incapable of developing any kind of addiction be a bad thing for the humanity.

About how he wants to kill the brotherhood ..

To simply put it instead of giving my detailed opinion:
Why do you judge the one whose life is assured by machines, owns an army of advanced warrior robots and was the CEO of RobCo (energy weapons, advanced engineering and etc) if he wants to destroy the maniacal BOS who wants to get every bit of technology for themselves and 'protect' it in their way.

Even if the solution seems rather harsh, it is the best one. Eradicate them since they're a huge threat.

It's like siding with bugs and then questioning why they want you to destroy the anti bug spray.
 
Honestly, I'm really surprised at all the people who try and say House's plan is as flawed as Caesar's.

Who's to say he wouldn't have eventually made a Securitron AI take his place? I mean, after all, Yes-man only -found- the code to make himself more assertive, not -create it out of thin air-. Sounds like House was thinking ahead.
 
And let's not forget that Yes-Man is an "emergency ending". Feels more or less pushed there for the sake of giving you an option if you screw up with all factions.

Oh and besides.. The House always wins ;)
 
House might have had a nice plan before the war, but it failed. And now he's running on luck.
Wouldn't the NCR have stopped the Legion whe would have now Ceasars Palace at the strip. If the Legion wouldn't have shown up we now might have the NCR at the strip.
Even finding the chip in a barren wasteland or even the most likely damaged facility it was finished before NCR or the Legion won over the other side was more luck than a cunning plan.
And you can clearly see how desperate and powerless he is, when he asks the player to get the chip for him, because he himself can't get it without breaking rules which really seem to bound him. Also offering the player 1000 caps (without barter check) while he says he allready spents thousands of caps? Sorry but i smell somewhat of a bluff in his confidence.

But the judgement of what 'Goverment' is the best is turely a subjective matter.
For me i simply say House didn't do any good to the people besides the one he needs and his goal doesn't seem to be helping anyone outside his dream of reviving his beloved strip - so no help for freeside or westside or anyone.

@DForge
Well let's not forget that this 'emergency' ending is as good as house finding the chip, the courier surviving Bennies attack or houses life-system not breaking down over the years (like quite a lot of other hightech installations in the fallout world).
 
From what I know Mr. House spent over 800.000 caps in order to get the platinum chip, how would he get that money if not for the casino leasing and taxing ?

IIRC he said that he spent decades sending people searching for it so the source of that money can't be the casinos. Can someone confirm?
 
Mr Krepe said:
Does Mr House provide protection to outside of Vegas, no.
Bigger question: Is Mr. House capable of providing protection outside of Vegas at the outset? No. The forces he has available are limited. Unlike the NCR, he doesn't have hundreds of thousands of people to work with. He doesn't have a large industrial base. He doesn't even have a power supply of his own.

If his original plan had succeeded 200 years before FNV, he would be in a very different position, and the Mojave would be much safer.

House's plan is, in some ways, not all that different from the NCR. NCR started as one settlement and grew. House plans on starting with one settlement (in this case Vegas) and building on it. The thing is, House started much later than the NCR. And unlike the NCR, he has to deal with the NCR. Any political faction that appears near the NCR will get stomped on by the NCR.

House's plan, however, is to first build a proper infrastructure for Vegas, turning it into a beacon for the rest of humanity. Rather than going forth to conquer everyone else, they would come to him. The other settlements would come to emulate Vegas to be part of the society that House is building. That's far more noble than NCR's reprise of manifest destiny.

You say he doesn't help Freeside and kills people without enough money to enter Vegas. Well, life is tough. He doesn't have the resources to make everyone rich. If Vegas is flooded with useless wastelanders, he couldn't build. They'd tear the place apart for scavenge. It's not an ideal situation and not what he planned, but he's doing the best he can with extremely limited resources. He can't command the loyalty of a vast armies.

Once he has his army and his power plant operational, then he can look to do the things you talk about. But if he tries it before his assets are in place, he would be stretched too thing and the NCR would simply stomp on him. The NCR has made it plain they plan to take Vegas by force at the earliest convenience. House sending his forces out to patrol the wastes would mean he wouldn't have enough to be even a minor nuisance to the vast NCR army.

House isn't ideal, but I can find nothing nefarious in his dealings, given the constraints he is under.
 
Bad_Karma said:
The problem is, he could have gotten funds through other enterprises which might have stabilized the region more and be more important in rebuilding the region than casinos. I mean he could have been the one selling food to the NCR, or other supplies to the NCR instead it's the other way round.
He choosed luxus good above necessary goods for survival - and that in a post-apoc world, where humanity is starving for survival goods.
Food from where? He had no agricultural assets. Trade from what? He had no industrial base.

Remember, the whole reason Vegas operates like it does in FNV is because of the NCR. House was biding his time, slowly building up power reserves because that was all he had the power to do. He had a supply of people in his Vault, safe and snug. He was waiting until he could build the reserve to restart his proper power plant and find the platinum chip.

The NCR through that plan into disarray. As soon as they reached Vegas, they would annex it, find him, and kill him. He jumpstarted his plans because he saw the NCR coming. Rather than a smooth transition, he had to have a fully populated and function Vegas fortress before the NCR arrived, and he didn't have much time to get it done. So he improvised something that was far less than ideal, but was the best he could do given the limited resources at his disposal.
 
DForge said:
And let's not forget that Yes-Man is an "emergency ending". Feels more or less pushed there for the sake of giving you an option if you screw up with all factions.
Actually, my plan was to take Vegas for myself. People knew I was the one coming in and out of the Lucky 38. I was planning on unplugging House and installing Yes-Man, then leaving the fiction that House was still there and in charge and I was just his courier. I would then have complete control of the strip and organize it how I wanted to. I'd made friends with the King in Freeside, Novac, Nellis, and GoodSprings. Combined with my new robot army, I could easily expand out, forging the various communities into a nation of my own with power both from Vegas' restarted reactor and hoover damn, along with the Archimedes orbital cannon as an ace in the hole. I even talked Oliver into withdrawing rather than offing him so that I'd be in a position to negotiate with him for a peaceful border with the NCR.

I was rather annoyed that the ending didn't seem to follow this.
 
Actually the NCR allready started rebuilding infrastructure.
Helios One, the Dam, the water pipeline from new vegas, the 'mono-rail' (or what you will call it) between Vegas an the airport (okay that's not that great). They even started to rebuilt the normal railroad - that were the powder gang comes in. Not to speak from helping building farmland.

Saying the NCR isn't doing anything to help, is just wrong. And saying they are responsible for caravans failing and so on is also wrong, they didn't bring the area in such a desolate situation. The monster were there before, and the legion was coming either way. Also the different 'Raider' groups doesn't seem to have formed because the NCR 'marched' in.
 
You can't say that Mr House has tried to be diplomatic with the NCR, because the NCR ambassador says to the PC when you talk to him about dplomatic relations, he says he's gaining no ground with House because House will not even agree to meet up, or even contact the embassy, so how is House the better one, if he won't even contact the embassy for soem negotiations?
 
House is crippled and living on borrowed time. He can't exactly go to an embassy and discuss politics, if you haven't noticed ;)

Besides, what's the use of discussing anything with NCR? THey seem to be capable of one thing: annexing. And they would most likely offer annexation on peaceful terms, what else? You can always take the alternative, annexation with guns, of course. Or ignore them since they are troubled with Legion and focus on your job when there is still time, exactly like Mr. House does. I think it's the best move.

I agree with Forbidden in general - although I don't think the player is better as a leader than a 250yo genious. I know we can roleplay and consider him to be 10INT, smarter than Mr.House, but to me, the courier is mostly... a Courier. may be smart, good with guns, but being the Last, Best Hope of Humanity? Nah. I'd rather leave that to Mr. House.
 
Bad_Karma said:
Actually the NCR allready started rebuilding infrastructure.
Helios One, the Dam, the water pipeline from new vegas, the 'mono-rail' (or what you will call it) between Vegas an the airport (okay that's not that great). They even started to rebuilt the normal railroad - that were the powder gang comes in. Not to speak from helping building farmland.

Which is fine. As I said before, NCR does whatever sane government would do in such place: rebuild. And that's ok.

But the question is, what's their plan? To me it's obvious: reinstalling the US. Again. With the same method of governing it. And that's exactly why I think it sucks as an option. It's literally repeating the past. There's nothing wrong with NCR or any other country that does that; It's the system they accept - being exact copy of modern countries - that isn't worth it. In Fallout, history teaches humanity isn't capable of running the world via both "democracy" and "oligarchy".

Saying the NCR isn't doing anything to help, is just wrong. And saying they are responsible for caravans failing and so on is also wrong, they didn't bring the area in such a desolate situation. The monster were there before, and the legion was coming either way. Also the different 'Raider' groups doesn't seem to have formed because the NCR 'marched' in.

The NCR is perfectly guilty of doing nothing. Many NCR officers express their displease towards the orders they have received. ANd those orders are simple "do nothing".
 
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