New Governmental interference

[Brother None]

You are an idiot for thinking that that book is worth any more then the paper it is written on. A flat out, complete, total idiot that, unlike say Wooz, Sander or even Ozrat has no chance of redemption.

Excuse me, CC, am I reading this?

The singel most ironic, moronic and totally undefensible statment I have heard in my entire life.

I can name someone who's made stronger statements of that sort.

 

[John Uskglass]

I never said I hate all Arabs, or anything like this.

Sorry, I just get really angry when people say that all Americans are everything they are not. There is honestly no possible rational defense of his position....none.

And thanks for forgetting the rest of my post.

 

[Brother None]

I never said I hate all Arabs, or anything like this.

No, but you have made some interesting undefensible statements

Sorry, I just get really angry when people say that all Americans are everything they are not. There is honestly no possible rational defense of his position....none.

I know that, but that's no reason to flame him, especially since you've been warned across the boards several times by several mods to please cut back on the abuse. It was a pretty flame, insulting not only the target but several other people unrelated to what he said...

Don't let it happen again, I'm not going to keep letting it slide, even though I personally like you...

 

[Nomad]

I just picked up a book today called, "The Best Democracy Money Can Buy." The more I read it, the more I hate Bush, this country, and the media in this country.

You are an idiot for thinking that that book is worth any more then the paper it is written on. A flat out, complete, total idiot that, unlike say Wooz, Sander or even Ozrat has no chance of redemption.

First of all, the "media" industry is the single most diverse market, with a HHI of 268. Automobile market is at a staggering 2,506, pharmacetuicals at 446. HHI being the most widely used measure of economic concentration. If the top ten media companies merged, it would be nowhere near as bad as the auto market.

I also find it pathetic that I am called a "bigot" for disliking certain tendancies of Islamic people, while you openly state that you "hate" 280 million people.

http://www.reason.com/0401/fe.bc.domination.shtml

The book is interesting and thought provoking, unlike your post. I don't care if the media industry is "diverse". It's used almost as a mind control device, to get (especially) teenagers to buy whatever they want them to. And that's not cool. Yes, I know they have to make money too, but they should actually work for it, like I do. And I use the word "hate" loosely. I hate everyone in the same manner that I "love" chocolate.

It's the corrupted assholes that run this country that I hate. And as a whole, the people in this country are rude, elitest assholes.

The singel most ironic, moronic and totally undefensible statment I have heard in my entire life.

Which part is "undefensable"? The corrupted asshole part, or the elitest asshole part? The corrupted part, I supported in the same paragraph above the statement. As for the "rude, elitest asshole" part, well... Maybe as a whole, they aren't elitest, but as a whole we're all rude. All I have to do is look around myself to support that. And thank you for ignoring the rest of that, where I say, "Though, one by one, they [Americans] can be pretty cool people."

 

[John Uskglass]

I know that, but that's no reason to flame him, especially since you've been warned across the boards several times by several mods to please cut back on the abuse. It was a pretty flame, insulting not only the target but several other people unrelated to what he said...

Thats fair, and I have done so, for the most part, but saying he hates all Americans and thinks they are all eletist snobs, and me responding with the word "idiot" is fairly tame, at least by my standards. This guy insulted 280 million people in some of the worst ways possible- I insult him for taking a crappy book full of indefensible arguments seriously.

Don't let it happen again, I'm not going to keep letting it slide, even though I personally like you...

FIne, fine, but for the record, this was both the first time in a while and a retaliatory, not-as-bad flame.

No, but you have made some interesting undefensible statements

Yeah, but nothing like that.

The book is interesting and thought provoking, unlike your post. I don't care if the media industry is "diverse". It's used almost as a mind control device, to get (especially) teenagers to buy whatever they want them to.

But it is the top 50 mind control devices, and that top 50 is constantly changing. Imagine 50 groups of people all scrambling to use the same mind control device...it is impossible for one group to have enough power to influence people for that long.

Secondly, that is simply not how this works. Fox News arose out of a need for conservative biased news. The BBC's news style, or say The Daily Worker, or the Nation, or Salon.com where concived with the idea of a liberal biased news scource. It is just how the economy works.

Yes, I know they have to make money too, but they should actually work for it, like I do. And I use the word "hate" loosely. I hate everyone in the same manner that I "love" chocolate.

A) I am honestly willing to bet that Rupert Murdoch has worked alot harder in his life then yourself
B) "hate" is "hate". You used an ugly word that is not used very often for what you are trying to describe, hence this misconception is your fault and yours alone.

Which part is "undefensable"? The corrupted asshole part, or the elitest asshole part? The corrupted part, I supported in the same paragraph above the statement

facts. You are not using facts. I am using facts, look at the HHI statement and the Reason article. You are using opinons. Now, in my opinon the Crusades where both morally rightious and deserved, but that opinon needs facts to back it up (say that the Arabs where a tiny minority in the Levant that persecuted a huge majority of Christians). Try it, it's fun.

 

[Thorgrimm]

Nomad i have a question for you? How far from home have you ever been? As your statement to me indicates you need to gat out more. I have been to every state in the Union and 100 countries on this planet. Americans who are NOT politicians or have a political axe to grind are just like people around the rest of this planet, helpful and caring. Case in point i was caught in a tornado in Florida. I got pinned in my car as the twister changed directions and rolled it on top of me in the ditch i was in. 2 men i have never seen helped to dig me out, in the process risking their lives. Once in Grand Central Station in New York totaly lost an old man and his granddaughter came up to me and helped me figure out where i needed to go. I honestly think you have been watching too many politicised programs, and need to get out among the folks.

In my opinion it is when people get power or want power they become the "Elitist Assholes" you talk of. Also non-political Americans are no more rude than every other non-political person on this planet.

Also hate for ANY reason is part of the problem, people need to give up their prejudices and hate, as we need to understand that ALL people on this planet are one species, just different culturally.

And i figure i am going to be flamed by the ones who do not want to release their hate. But that is ok as it will not bother me as i am secure in my beliefs.

Cheers Thorgrimm

 

[Nomad]

Sheesh. It seems like everywhere I go, I end up getting myself in a big fight. Yes, I realize that's my fault, so I'm not going to blame anyone.

Nomad i have a question for you? How far from home have you ever been? As your statement to me indicates you need to gat out more.

It must just be the places I've been, then. Even here in this "quiet" small town of Cheyenne, there are a lot of rude people. Not as many as, say, Las Vegas/Henderson/Summerlin (which is pretty much the same place, now), but there's a lot. Particularly people that don't obey traffic laws (nothing peterbs me more than someone who doesn't use their turn signal). And I don't really watch much tv at all, let alone political programs. Although, I do enjoy watching Hardball every once in a while.

It's more likely my cynicism. I'm sure you've noticed from my writing, that I'm very cynical. To put it lightly.

But it is the top 50 mind control devices, and that top 50 is constantly changing...

Ha! At least you agree with me that it's a mind control device.

A) I am honestly willing to bet that Rupert Murdoch has worked alot harder in his life then yourself
B) "hate" is "hate". You used an ugly word that is not used very often for what you are trying to describe, hence this misconception is your fault and yours alone.

A) Rupert Murdoch is probably three times, maybe four times my age. Of course he's worked harder, because he's been around longer. But work is work.
B) I "hate" mushrooms. "Hate" is just a word used to describe dislike. If it makes you feel any better, I "dislike" most Americans (especially Republicans )

facts. You are not using facts.

Ok, Give me proof that roughly 50,000 people in Florida weren't wrongly barred from voting in the 2000 Presidential election, and I'll take my "opinions" back.

Who're you to say what's in the book is bunk? Did you, and have you gone and done the research that Greg did? I typically trust what I read from Journalists, regardless of their "alignment" on the political spectrum: Their job is to give the truth. Sure, he's biased. It's nearly impossible to be unbiased when writing anything.

 

[John Uskglass]

Ha! At least you agree with me that it's a mind control device.

No, I dont. It could be a mind control device if few enough people with alot in common decided to use it as such, but that is yet to happen. And it is not like we have reached Brave New World whispering-in-your-ear-when-you-are-asleep like stuff anyway. If it ever gets to subliminal images, maybe you have a point. But it has not, and no tendancy is leading that way.

A) Rupert Murdoch is probably three times, maybe four times my age. Of course he's worked harder, because he's been around longer. But work is work.

He is also the head of one of the largest media corporations in the world, something he was not born into. Thus he has, in all likelyhood, worked harder and longer then you have, even by your age.

B) I "hate" mushrooms. "Hate" is just a word used to describe dislike. If it makes you feel any better, I "dislike" most Americans (especially Republicans )

If I said, "I dislike Italians", that is bad. If I say "I hate Italians" that is alot worse. You either misused the word or am just trying to not look as much like a bigot.

Ok, Give me proof that roughly 50,000 people in Florida weren't wrongly barred from voting in the 2000 Presidential election, and I'll take my "opinions" back.

I dont have to prove anything. You have to show me evidence, then I can disprove it. Your argument is silly- give me proof that my shit does not turn into gold when I flush it down.

typically trust what I read from Journalists, regardless of their "alignment" on the political spectrum:

Wrong here. This guy is fairly obviously a fanatic, even from what I have read, and thinks that the common person is stupid enough to be completely brainwash with ads and political statements.

It's nearly impossible to be unbiased when writing anything.

That, however, should not be the goal. The goal should be to read enough on any subject to reach a logical conclusion.

For isntance, Runciman refers to Islam as genius, "while Christainity promises a peace it never delivers, Islam was unabashedly militiristic in conception." Ostrogorsky, however, belives it to be intellectually bankrupt. If you where to trust both of them, as both of them are historians, you would ultimately reach a state of doublethink. The point is to get enough from seperate scources (say, Edward I-am-so-screwed-in-the-head-it-is-no-longer-funny-and-am-an-embaracement-to-the-studies-of-humanities Said, and read the Koran yourself).

For instance, on the Flordia thing, you forget that the recount did not effect overseas ballots, who are mostly either from Isreal (conservative, as they support Isreal), or the Military (duh), thus Gore was fairly obviously trying to cheat his way into the White House.

 

[Nomad]

B) I "hate" mushrooms. "Hate" is just a word used to describe dislike. If it makes you feel any better, I "dislike" most Americans (especially Republicans )

If I said, "I dislike Italians", that is bad. If I say "I hate Italians" that is alot worse. You either misused the word or am just trying to not look as much like a bigot.

But, see, I am an American. This is just my opinion, but I don't think it means as much when you say something like, "I hate blacks" when you are black. But, whatever.

Ok, Give me proof that roughly 50,000 people in Florida weren't wrongly barred from voting in the 2000 Presidential election, and I'll take my "opinions" back.

I dont have to prove anything. You have to show me evidence, then I can disprove it. Your argument is silly- give me proof that my shit does not turn into gold when I flush it down.

My argument isn't all that silly. When Johnny Jackson Jr. of Florida is accused of being a convicted felon from Texas as "John Fitzgerald Jackson," when in reality John F. Jackson is still in Prison in Texas, and Johnny Jackson Jr. has never been to Texas and whose middle name isn't even "Fitzgerald" to begin with, there's something wrong there. When Thomas Cooper was allegedly convicted of a felony on February 30th, 2007, there's something wrong. The state of Florida didn't pay a company $2 million to create a database of people who aren't supposed to vote, where stupid mistakes like these were made. Unless, of course, if they were actually paying the company to make the mistakes.

I typically trust what I read from Journalists, regardless of their "alignment" on the political spectrum:

Wrong here. This guy is fairly obviously a fanatic, even from what I have read, and thinks that the common person is stupid enough to be completely brainwash with ads and political statements.

This "fanatic" you speak of, is considered one of the best journalists of our time. No other journalist goes as deep for research than he does. And even if it's bullshit, and he pulls it all out of his ass, you've got to at least give him props for his effort.

It's nearly impossible to be unbiased when writing anything.

That, however, should not be the goal. The goal should be to read enough on any subject to reach a logical conclusion.

* * *

The point is to get enough from seperate scources (say, Edward I-am-so-screwed-in-the-head-it-is-no-longer-funny-and-am-an-embaracement-to-the-studies-of-humanities Said, and read the Koran yourself).

See, now that makes sense (and I'm serious, I'm not just being a prick). I should do a little research myself and see if I can dig anything up about the Florida thing.

For instance, on the Flordia thing, you forget that the recount did not effect overseas ballots, who are mostly either from Isreal (conservative, as they support Isreal), or the Military (duh), thus Gore was fairly obviously trying to cheat his way into the White House.

I'm not talking about the recount. What I'm talking about, is this:

A company, ChoicePoint, was hired to compile a list of convicted felons in Florida. If you didn't know, people who were convicted of felonies in Florida, even if they've served their prison/jail sentances, and were reformed, they are not allowed to vote. People convicted in other states, who've done their time and regained their right to vote in their own state, were supposed to be able to vote in Florida if they were a Resident (of course). However, even though the courts were against it, Jeb told them (ChoicePoint) to keep them on the list. That was a little less than 3,000 people. Maybe not a lot, but if they all had been able to vote, the election may have gone differently.

BUT, that's not all. ChoicePoint faked most of the entries. Matching innocent citizens with criminals, some not even living in the state (I gave a couple examples a few paragraphs up; Johnny Jackson Jr.). They were also supposed to confirm these things with each person over the telephone, which they obviously didn't do.

It just isn't right, no matter how you cut it.

And these are Facts, as far as I know. If they're opinions, they aren't mine, so don't bitch at me about it.

 

[Thorgrimm]

Nomad wrote

A company, ChoicePoint, was hired to compile a list of convicted felons in Florida. If you didn't know, people who were convicted of felonies in Florida, even if they've served their prison/jail sentances, and were reformed, they are not allowed to vote. People convicted in other states, who've done their time and regained their right to vote in their own state, were supposed to be able to vote in Florida if they were a Resident (of course). However, even though the courts were against it, Jeb told them (ChoicePoint) to keep them on the list. That was a little less than 3,000 people. Maybe not a lot, but if they all had been able to vote, the election may have gone differently.

BUT, that's not all. ChoicePoint faked most of the entries. Matching innocent citizens with criminals, some not even living in the state (I gave a couple examples a few paragraphs up; Johnny Jackson Jr.). They were also supposed to confirm these things with each person over the telephone, which they obviously didn't do.

Nomad what is your evidence for this supposition? is it just "investigative reporting", or actual evidence. As if it is true it is a violation of Federal election laws. and subject to prosecution. Also i think if it was true instead of innuendo, the Major media companies, or the Democrats would have jumped all over it. The only thing any Democrat has complained of is the recount, not actual election fraud. I would have to see hard evidence to back this claim up. I think it is just more of somebody trying to grind his own political axe.

Cheers Thorgrimm

 

[Nomad]

Y'know, I'm not sure if I believe all of it myself, but like I said before, "Even if it's bullshit, and he's pulling it all out of his ass, you have to at least give him props for his effort."

I mean, it is kind of suspicious that for some reason, only he knew about this. But who knows. He says the reason no one else reported it is because all the newspapers are too soft. Bah. Maybe the "National Enquirer" would have believed him. Hehe.

But, ya know, I still don't like Dubya.

 

[Thorgrimm]

Never said i liked him either

Cheers Thorgrimm

 

[Big T]

typically trust what I read from Journalists, regardless of their "alignment" on the political spectrum

And yet you say the media )perpetrated by journalists) is a mind control device.

I don't care if the media industry is "diverse". It's used almost as a mind control device

This seems to be a viewpoint that you have gained from reading a book, do books not count as "The Media" anymore?

I "hate" mushrooms. "Hate" is just a word used to describe dislike. If it makes you feel any better, I "dislike" most Americans (especially Republicans )

You are misusing the word hate here, you should have used dislike in the first place. Hate is a very strong emotion and is often mistaken for dislike by fools. I dislike many of the commments that you have made, this does not mean that i hate you.

But, see, I am an American. This is just my opinion, but I don't think it means as much when you say something like, "I hate blacks" when you are black. But, whatever.

So, based on the small number of Americans that you have met, you can judge them all. Just because you have had bad experiences with Americans, does not make them all evil. On the other hand, just because Thorgrimm has had good experiences with Americans does not ake them all saints.

 

[Johns Volition]

Hehe... I remeber, a while a ago in German there was this so stupid quiz show called STRIP in TV.. god I loved the show... nobody knew the rules but every once in a while there was a nice strip.... well a fun show I thought...
c'mon what's so fucking wrong about a little nudity?

That wasn't a rethoric question.. serious what's wrong with a little nudity?

 

[Nomad]

typically trust what I read from Journalists, regardless of their "alignment" on the political spectrum

And yet you say the media )perpetrated by journalists) is a mind control device.

They are in the media business, yes, but they are there to inform, not entertain. I suppose "to control our minds" they could lie, or only give us half truths, but in most cases I don't think they'd do that, especially in this day and age where we can get our news from anywhere in the world.

I don't care if the media industry is "diverse". It's used almost as a mind control device

This seems to be a viewpoint that you have gained from reading a book, do books not count as "The Media" anymore?

Yes. Just reading the book, made me hate the media. Before, I was just like everyone else. Look, contrary to what you probably think, I'm not stupid. I've hated the media long before reading this book.

I "hate" mushrooms. "Hate" is just a word used to describe dislike. If it makes you feel any better, I "dislike" most Americans (especially Republicans )

You are misusing the word hate here, you should have used dislike in the first place. Hate is a very strong emotion and is often mistaken for dislike by fools. I dislike many of the commments that you have made, this does not mean that i hate you.

Well, good. I don't hate you either. I don't hate anyone here. Even CCR. His arguing has shown me that at least not everyone in the world are stupid assholes. He's just an asshole (just teasing)

But, see, I am an American. This is just my opinion, but I don't think it means as much when you say something like, "I hate blacks" when you are black. But, whatever.

So, based on the small number of Americans that you have met, you can judge them all. Just because you have had bad experiences with Americans, does not make them all evil. On the other hand, just because Thorgrimm has had good experiences with Americans does not ake them all saints.

Bah. You know, I wish I could take these comments back.

I'll admit, this book has brainwashed me. And I've done a lot of thinking, and it is just a bunch of tripe. It's just too out there. I've looked and haven't found anything to support what he says, other than stuff that he's said. He should be writing for the National Enquirer or something.

And, as I said before, I don't really hate everyone. I'm just very cynical. Granted, I've had a lot of experiences with people (All Americans, of course), that lead me to dislike many people.

This is where I want to say, "leave me alone now," but I've given you folks plenty of reason to bug the shit out of me. Oh well. At least I haven't been banished. :-/

 

[Ratty Sr.]

That wasn't a rethoric question.. serious what's wrong with a little nudity?

Maybe the politicians hate it because it reminds them of how lame their sex lives are.

 

[APTYP]

I don't get it. Didn't everyone complain about gratuous sexual innuendos that permeate American media? Didn't everyone agree that it was the sign that such programming is intellectually degrading and that this is a prime example of consumerist propaganda being shoved down our throats? Didn't you want to do something about it before America turns into a bunch of sweaty masturbating monkeys glued to the Tube 24/7?

Here is Congress and FCC actually doing something about it. Shouldn't you be happy?

 

[Nomad]

Boobs on the boob tube is nothing new, especially for someone not of the U.S. I'm sure everyone from Britain and such are wondering what the big deal is. Everyone's just overreacting, like usual.

And the claims of what was on her breast are rediculous, too. "It's a solar panel for her microphone," and, "It's a pentagram! She's the spawn of satan!" It is a nipple shield; a type of nipple ring. Get a life, people.

Ugh.

Didn't you want to do something about it before America turns into a bunch of sweaty masturbating monkeys glued to the Tube 24/7?

No. For most of these people, that would be time well spent.

 

[Thorgrimm]

It is not about sex that i posted this article, it was the idea that the FCC, aka Government, wants to regulate what i watch and listen to. It is about controlling the populace and what information we are allowed access to. Who knows where that will lead to, if the Supreme court shows no backbone and slaps congress back down by saying this is unconstitutional, who knows what else congress will want to control. If that happens i feel sorry for the US as soon after we may have another civil war.


Thorgrimm

 

[Wooz]

If that happens i feel sorry for the US as soon after we may have another civil war.
Thorgrimm

It would be a sad day indeed, maybe massive protests would occur, but no. No civil war. It's the US, not Sierra Leone...