New Vegas writers were told to dial back the Enclave

[Norzan]

So...Fallout 3?

I mean in terms of release, not timeline. They were also poorly written in Fallout 76 and made no sense being there, and now apparently were also shoved into Fallout 4 for no reason.

So yes, my statement is real, New Vegas is the only game after Fallout 2 where they made actual sense and were treated with any modicum of respect. And even if it was just Fallout 3, that game butchers the Enclave so much that is borderline criminal and this is the antagonistic faction of the previous game.

 

[R.Graves]

I think Star Wars and Star Trek have both gone past that road.

The big difference of course being that those actually have had good entries into their franchises in recent years. There hasn't been a good fallout game in 14 years and fallout isn't exactly drowning in spinoff media either so it can't rely on law of averages to get a baller comic run like star trek or star wars can

They do absolutely nothing too, apparently.

nobody does in bethesdas games

 

[CT Phipps]

I mean in terms of release, not timeline. They were also poorly written in Fallout 76 and made no sense being there, and now apparently were also shoved into Fallout 4 for no reason.

So yes, my statement is real, New Vegas is the only game after Fallout 2 where they made actual sense and were treated with any modicum of respect. And even if it was just Fallout 3, that game butchers the Enclave so much that is borderline criminal and this is the antagonistic faction of the previous game.

Do they not make sense in Fallout 76? It's not a sequel and the Greenbriar is the real location of the Congressional nuclear bunker. I've been there. I mean they were shittily written but it's not a continuity error.

 

[SquidWard]

They were also poorly written in Fallout 76 and made no sense being there

The only thing they have in 76 is their old bunker with the AI that manages the place now and robots left over. There's no humans AFAIK. It's set 25 years after the war and like I've mentioned before, West Virginia would be a good place for a fictional shadow government type of faction to hide in. It's near the nation's capital but is in a far less populated area. A lot of that state is sparse towns, mountains, and forests. And in those areas you can find military checkpoints at the beginning of long roads which I know people believe there are underground bunkers carved into the mountains (and have elevators that can lift vehicles up and down the mountain's bunker). And like CT said, it's literally in Greenbriar. Why wouldn't you expect the Enclave have a presence there especially if takes place before Fallout 2?

I understand that the Enclave, especially on the West Coast, should be mostly gone after Fallout 2. But I don't see why they wouldn't have had operations in locations on the East Coast either. It doesn't make a lot of sense that all of them went to an oil rig off the West Coast and a military base in California and they had no presence anywhere else even prior to heading out that way.

 

[TheGM]

The Fallout 76 Enclave who exist in a bubble not connected to the rest of the Enclave who release the Giant Dragon Bat Virus for reasons then die.

Except you player, you are the Enclave now.

 

[Gizmojunk]

I understand that the Enclave, especially on the West Coast, should be mostly gone after Fallout 2. But I don't see why they wouldn't have had operations in locations on the East Coast either.

Well the President was on the rig, and the Enclave seems to have had only one forward base; Navarro—as implied by the Enclave communications operator's utter surprise when he traced the PC's incoming signal. The impression was that that was their extent into the mainland.

 

[PaxVenire]

Inserting the Enclave around the country is indeed a retcon, but not the most egregious one, and had Bethesda only inserted them on the East Coast rather than basically everything from the originals I wouldn't complain too much. New Vegas doubled down on Fallout 3’s inclusion of Enclave bases around the country with Enclave in Chicago, which will inevitably come back one day.

Is it lazy? Sure. Contrived? Debatable, but I lean more towards yes. But not the worst.

 

[SquidWard]

Well the President was on the rig, and the Enclave seems to have had only one forward base; Navarro—as implied but the Enclave communications operator's utter surprise when he traced the PC's incoming signal. The impression was that that was their extent into the mainland.

Yeah I think that's fair. I just don't think it's unreasonable that 155 years ago they had other locations with members in it. I find it less reasonable to imagine the Enclave existing as they do in Fallout 3 than I do in 76.

Inserting the Enclave around the country is indeed a retcon, but not the most egregious one, and had Bethesda only inserted them on the East Coast rather than basically everything from the originals I wouldn't complain too much. New Vegas doubled down on Fallout 3’s inclusion of Enclave bases around the country with Enclave in Chicago, which will inevitably come back one day.

Yeah having the Enclave near Washington DC makes a lot more sense than the Brotherhood of Steel, Super Mutants, Radscorpions and Deathclaws. Other things like Ghouls, I can understand. Not a bad retcon as it does make sense they'd exist around the areas the capital of nation worked from and would have bunkers nearby it just like the normal politicians would.

Retcons are not inherently bad. Retcons are bad when they don't make a lot of sense or they feel pointless. Having your shadow government having staff near your nation's capital isn't really far-fetched. Sending the Brotherhood across the nation when you're in no position to be expending members and resources like that doesn't make nearly as much sense.

 

[PaxVenire]

Sending the Brotherhood across the nation when you're in no position to be expending members and resources like that doesn't make nearly as much sense.

This happens on two accounts and it’s hilariously far fetched each time. Fallout 3’s East Coast pilgrimage was during their war with the NCR back home where they’d need their members more than ever and then with Fallout 76’s Appalachian pilgrimage in a time where the BOS should be a handful of people rotting away in Lost Hills.

 

[SquidWard]

then with Fallout 76’s Appalachian pilgrimage in a time where the BOS should be a handful of people rotting away in Lost Hills.

From what I remember, they didn't leave California during 76 but they happened to radio to someone in West Virginia and describe their organization in great detail to them and the chapter we see in 76 was made. Which I think is just silly. They have the insignia correct, they are very worried about the founding chapter's opinion of them, and more. Like huh? You talked on the radio and you've never met, why are you worried about what Maxson thinks of the job you're doing out here? You learned some shit just make your own faction since you have all this tech and power armor...

 

[PaxVenire]

From what I remember, they didn't leave California during 76 but they happened to radio to someone in West Virginia and describe their organization in great detail to them and the chapter we see in 76 was made. Which I think is just silly. They have the insignia correct, they are very worried about the founding chapter's opinion of them, and more. Like huh? You talked on the radio and you've never met, why are you worried about what Maxson thinks of the job you're doing out here? You learned some shit just make your own faction since you have all this tech and power armor...

That was the original* Appalachian Brotherhood’s origin. Then with the Steel Dawn/Steel Reign update to the game, they decided not to resurrect the Appalachian Brotherhood like they did the Responders, but rather have BOS from California trek all the way to Appalachia to “restore order.”

 

[Hardboiled Android]

I believe that I read that they were prohibited from using Area 51 as well.

Never heard they were prohibited Josh Sawyer was asked about it once and said something to the effect of "Area 51 is actually pretty far away from Vegas proper, and Bethesda just did UFO-adjacent stuff in Mothership Zeta."

From what I remember, they didn't leave California during 76 but they happened to radio to someone in West Virginia and describe their organization in great detail to them and the chapter we see in 76 was made. Which I think is just silly. They have the insignia correct, they are very worried about the founding chapter's opinion of them, and more. Like huh? You talked on the radio and you've never met, why are you worried about what Maxson thinks of the job you're doing out here? You learned some shit just make your own faction since you have all this tech and power armor...

That's how it was originally in 76, yes, but then they doubled down in an expansion ("Steel Dawn" or some such) where the Lost Hills Brotherhood sent a party to investiage what happened to the West Virginia correspondence fanclub.

One correction, technically the person that Maxson talked to on the radio is supposed to have been one of Maxson's friend before the war, that's part of how the game explains it. Not that that makes it better.

 

[SquidWard]

That was the original* Appalachian Brotherhood’s origin. Then with the Steel Dawn/Steel Reign update to the game, they decided not to resurrect the Appalachian Brotherhood like they did the Responders, but rather have BOS from California trek all the way to Appalachia to “restore order.”

That's how it was originally in 76, yes, but then they doubled down in an expansion ("Steel Dawn" or some such) where the Lost Hills Brotherhood sent a party to investiage what happened to the West Virginia correspondence fanclub.

Holy shit I just assumed it was others in the area that kept taking up the mantle. I've played through most of the storylines I just have a hard time really paying attention to a lot of it.

One correction, technically the person that Maxson talked to on the radio is supposed to have been one of Maxson's friend before the war, that's part of how the game explains it. Not that that makes it better.

I mean, I guess that gives it a bit more sensibility? It's definitely better than just randomly talking to people across the nation and having them follow your orders. At least they made it where these people knew each other pre-war. I still dislike it and think it's an easy handwave but I do think it makes it a little bit better.

 

[PaxVenire]

Fallout 76 genuinely has some interesting NEW factions they could’ve touched on too. The Free States are conceptually pretty cool and yet they’ve done fuck all with them. Gotta have that BOS I guess.

 

[Hardboiled Android]

I mean, I guess that gives it a bit more sensibility? It's definitely better than just randomly talking to people across the nation and having them follow your orders. At least they made it where these people knew each other pre-war. I still dislike it and think it's an easy handwave but I do think it makes it a little bit better.

Meant to say "Not that it makes it THAT much better." It's better than him just phoning up someone at random, but the whole thing is stupid both in conception and presentation.

 

[Iprovidelittlepianos]

It's weird because fans have traditionally assumed the "Enclave is nothing but seven old guys and a former child soldier" was a artistic choice by Obsidian trying to make a point that they got their asses stomped in Fallout 2 and shouldn't exist anymore. Sort of like if you did the Galactic Empire in Star Wars sequels and made it clear no one would ever join these jerkasses again. You know, how they should have done it.

But apparently, it was more Todd Howard being, "These guys are mine, don't play with them."

Wait a minute. I interpreted this tweet in the complete opposite way that everyone else did apparently. To me, Chris is saying that the inclusion of the Enclave, with the exception of the Remnants, was expressly forbidden by the designers of NV, despite the fact that Todd wanted them in the game because he had a huge hard-on for them. I interpret it as the project designer fighting hard to NOT feature them in any capacity other than as the Remnants, fighting against Todd’s desires specifically. I now see how it can be interpreted differently, but am I the only one who read it like this?

One correction, technically the person that Maxson talked to on the radio is supposed to have been one of Maxson's friend before the war, that's part of how the game explains it. Not that that makes it better.

They should’ve made them old dnd buddies, that would explain why they were both on board with larping as a knightly order.

 

[TheGM]

Meant to say "Not that it makes it THAT much better." It's better than him just phoning up someone at random, but the whole thing is stupid both in conception and presentation.

Maxson was thumbing through his rolodex in the lost hills bunker, seeing if anybody wanted to join is LARP-crew. Somebody picked up the phone and actually joined.

Then they died.

 

[SquidWard]

Fallout 76 genuinely has some interesting NEW factions they could’ve touched on too. The Free States are conceptually pretty cool and yet they’ve done fuck all with them. Gotta have that BOS I guess.

Yeah even if they weren't all that interesting the fact they'd be new factions would be enough at this point. I think they did a great job with mutants/cryptids in 76 and using their own mutants from nearby (DC and Boston) with these new ones. I like Fallout but I don't need BoS and Super Mutants every game, I really don't. There's a lot more to explore conceptually and I wish they'd do that.

We had two anti-government factions (which for a "hillbilly" state being the setting is a good place to put these for sure)Free States and Sons of Dane both of which don't mean much in the grand scheme of things. Free States matter a bit more and Sons of Dane just really are there for an in-game event.
Humanitarian/Orderly factions like Responders, Charleston Emergency Government, Blue Ridge Caravan. The Cult of the Mothmen had a schism and caused two rival factions within between Followers of the Winged One and The Enlightened. Which they're really just enemies you shoot like raiders but look different. Also, while there are "raiders" and the "Crater raiders" there's Blood Eagles and Free Radicals which it's nice to have some raider factions instead of them being just "raiders" all the time.

Meant to say "Not that it makes it THAT much better." It's better than him just phoning up someone at random, but the whole thing is stupid both in conception and presentation.

It does irk me that Taggerdy's Thunder should have been their own thing instead of assimilating into the Brotherhood of Steel. Would be more interesting that way. Let something distinct happen and get some new material to expand on or work with while you're at it. And no one will have any expectations for their appearance or ideals as they're brand new.

 

[Jogre]

Yeah having the Enclave near Washington DC makes a lot more sense than the Brotherhood of Steel, Super Mutants, Radscorpions and Deathclaws

Come to think of it, Radscorpions are a particularly egregious one.

Like ok, Supermutants and Brotherhood I can kinda understand thinking "We gotta move these over" since they're iconic.

But with Radscorpions It's like, we're in an entirely new environment that should have it's own wildlife and you moved desert scorpions over there? Like it shows such an utter lack of ambition towards portraying a different part of the world.

 

[TheGM]

Like ok, Supermutants and Brotherhood I can kinda understand

He understands the Super Mutants...