NFL - week 13 seems like as good a week as any

[TwinkieGorilla]

...

 

[Maphusio]

I agree Seattle is not in the right state of mind. -BUT they have Josh Brown AKA The Long Leg of Seattle!

EDIT: Forgot to add the video!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o-OgcokgNbQ

 

[fallout ranger]

Good pairs do not a good team make.

Really? Like Kobe and Shaq that won three championships in a row for the Lakers?

The Colts ain't shit.

Yeah, sure, you just believe that.

Yes, because pressuring Romo has worked so well for other teams for far...oh wait

You would agree that it's better than NOT pressuring him...right?

I agree Favre's experience gives 'em an edge, but Romo has a better receiving squad and RBs. That means it's down to the Pack D.

Yeah Romo has T.O. but as far as RBs go they're about even, and I'd give the Packers the edge on defense, if only by a little.

all sports analysts would be saying "this kind of game was exactly what they needed to be shaken up" and "they'll be better for it." But it's the Pats, so everyone is gloating over the near-loss.

Probably true, but other teams will see what worked against the Pats.

They still won on toughness,

They won on defense and bad decisions by the Eagles. Just before Samuels' 2nd pick, had they just run the ball a few times, they would have eaten 1:30~2:00 of the clock and AT LEAST have scored a field goal. Thus leaving Tom Brady with about 3:00 to score a TD or get into FG range. I'm not saying the Eagles absoulutely would have stopped them, I'm just saying that they could have at LEAST tied and put the pressure on the Pats.

none of these flaws are particularly exploitable.

running in-routes is pretty easy, and even easier to call.

The last teams that took away Moss just saw one of the Pats' other A-class receivers burn the field

Yeah and look what happened a 3rd rate team with a backup QB (good as he may be) almost beat an undefeated.

 

[New Enclave]

The last teams that took away Moss just saw one of the Pats' other A-class receivers burn the field (Welker, in this case) and, more obviously, the Pats not know teams will try this, so everyone else will fail by default

Maybe the Dolphins should have hung onto Welker so that they might I dunno BE able to freaking score a TD with random success.

Bucs-Cowboys would be hilarious. Just wait and see if Garcia asks to play cornerback so he can tackle TO a few times

Hahaha, but TO said Garcia was a girly man.

 

[Brother None]

Really? Like Kobe and Shaq that won three championships in a row for the Lakers?

You think that's a fair comparison?

I may be too hard on the Browns. And they'll definitely make the play-offs with their remaining schedule, but we'll see.

Yeah, sure, you just believe that.

I'll be laughing all the way through their next failure, believe me. Go Jags!

You would agree that it's better than NOT pressuring him...right?

So what? It's never worked. The Giants have better pass rusher than...anyone else. Yet how well did they stop the pass?
...
Tony Romo
123.1 pass rating
20-28 for 247 yards
4 TD, 1 INT

Oh yeah, pressuring him will surely stop him

Yeah Romo has T.O. but as far as RBs go they're about even, and I'd give the Packers the edge on defense, if only by a little.

I'd give the Packers a lot of edge on defense. The Cowboys defense is improving, but pretty far from great. The Pack D might be the best in the league.

And you're seriously saying Ryan Grant is about even to Marion Barber III and Julius Jones? Are you joking?

I'm not saying the Eagles absoulutely would have stopped them, I'm just saying that they could have at LEAST tied and put the pressure on the Pats.

Perhaps. But would have-could have's don't amount to anything.

running in-routes is pretty easy, and even easier to call.
(...)
Yeah and look what happened a 3rd rate team with a backup QB (good as he may be) almost beat an undefeated.

This isn't the first time someone tried to take away Moss and succeeded. Cleveland did it and lost 34-17. Washington did it and lost 52-7.

Taking away Moss isn't a win-all way to stop their offense. They are fairly one-dimensional in offense, but not in passing options. Taking away Tom Brady would work, but it's not easy enough pressure him to achieve that. Taking away one receiver just makes him turn to one of his other 3 top flight options (Wes Welker, Donte Stallworth, Benjamin Watson, hell, they even throw touchdowns to their defensive players, for Frith's sake)

I think you're distracted by Moss' big numbers into thinking he's vital to the team's success. He really, really isn't. Important, and can be decisive in close games like this one or the one vs the Colts, but not vital.

Here's what NFL writer Jason Cole said after re-ranking the Pats as #1:
Even if the Patriots had lost, they would have maintained the top spot in the rankings. The more important question coming out of Philadelphia's effort against the Patriots is whether other teams are capable of doing what the Eagles did. The short answer is sure, anybody can do that. The reality is Philadelphia has pretty good pass coverage personnel. While that personnel hasn't played all that well most of the season, they are more capable than most and it's unlikely too many other teams will challenge that well until the playoffs

 

[fallout ranger]

So what? It's never worked.

So they might as well not try at all then right? Wrong.

And you're seriously saying Ryan Grant is about even to Marion Barber III and Julius Jones? Are you joking?

Rushing performance in heavily reliant on how good the O-line is, and the Packers' is pretty good.

I think you're distracted by Moss' big numbers into thinking he's vital to the team's success. He really, really isn't.

I don't think he's as vital as say, Tom Brady, but he's a weapon. And the fewer you let them have, the better your chances of winning are.

...they are more capable than most and it's unlikely too many other teams will challenge that well until the playoffs

But as I said before, those playoff teams and the Steelers who have an upcoming game against the Pats (#1 defense anyone?) will know where to start.

 

[TwinkieGorilla]

...

 

[Brother None]

So they might as well not try at all then right? Wrong.

I never said that. I said it won't make a difference, and it won't.

Rushing performance in heavily reliant on how good the O-line is, and the Packers' is pretty good.

Yes, but the Cowboys' O-line isn't terrible either. I'm not saying Ryan Grant is bad rushing behind that O-line, I'm saying Marion Barber III and Julius Jones combined for the Cowboys are better. i.e. Packs rushing game is inferior to Boys rushing game. Want proof?

Ryant Grant last 4: 363 yards, 2 TDs.
Marion Barber last 4: 236 yards, 2 TDs.
Julius Jones last 4: 199 yards, 1 TD.

Simple matter of math.

I don't think he's as vital as say, Tom Brady, but he's a weapon. And the fewer you let them have, the better your chances of winning are.

Yes, but Brady has 4 interchangeable weapons. That's different than, say, the Cowboys, where you can remove TO and Witten and Romo's significantly reduced. There's no way you can keep all 4 weapons covered, it's simply impossible.

But as I said before, those playoff teams and the Steelers who have an upcoming game against the Pats (#1 defense anyone?) will know where to start.

But they won't be able to duplicate it, depending on who they meet in the playoff teams.

And, amusingly enough, the Steelers aren't the first number 1 D the Pats have met. Like someone once said to me "#1 defense basically means defense that hasn't met the Pats yet"

The Redskins were the #1 pass D from week 1-7, they met the Pats in week 8. Let's see how they did...
Tom Brady
125.5 pass rating
29-38 for 306 yards
3 TDs, 0 INTs

Yeah, I doubt the Pats will be very scared by the Steel Curtain. Especially considering their two recent outings.

 

[fallout ranger]

Ryant Grant last 4: 363 yards, 2 TDs.
Marion Barber last 4: 236 yards, 2 TDs.
Julius Jones last 4: 199 yards, 1 TD.

Thos numbers are essentially a tie, which will bring the game down to WR and QB performance.

There's no way you can keep all 4 weapons covered, it's simply impossible.

But when you take Randy Moss away, you force other people to make plays, which is not exactly guaranteed.

 

[Brother None]

Thos numbers are essentially a tie, which will bring the game down to WR and QB performance.

Not really. They look like a tie because it's 1 guy vs 2, but a RBBC that works that well is inherently superior to one guy toting the ball well.

But you're right, they aren't that unequal. They've all faced the roughest rush D in the league, the Vikes, let's see how they did...

Ryan Grant 119 yards, 0 TDs
M. Barber III 96 yards, 1 TD
J. Jones 29 yards, 0 TD

It's not that there's a huge leap from GB to Dallas, but Dallas is better than GB, not a tie, not equal, simply better. Not mindbendingly, but better.

But when you take Randy Moss away, you force other people to make plays, which is not exactly guaranteed.

What? Donte Stallworth might not be a guarantee, but Wes Welker is like Mr Guaranteed.

Look, the numbers don't like, people have taken Moss away and it didn't have any significant impact on Brady's numbers. Them is simply the facts.

 

[New Enclave]

What? Donte Stallworth might not be a guarantee, but Wes Welker is like Mr Guaranteed.

Look, the numbers don't like, people have taken Moss away and it didn't have any significant impact on Brady's numbers. Them is simply the facts.

I agree essentially Dallas tried the same tactic against the Patriots with the same results, Welker is really the unsung hero of the Pats offense.

 

[Brother None]

I agree essentially Dallas tried the same tactic against the Patriots with the same results, Welker is really the unsung hero of the Pats offense.

Oh yeah, mucho love for Welker. Versatile, reliable. Moss really is Hall of Fame, though.

Also:
Opponents can't wait to get their hands on the Eagles' "blueprint" for beating New England. By the time they do, Bill Belichick will have fixed the problem.
- Dennis Dillon, SportingNews

Yip.

 

[fallout ranger]

Well, the Eagles took Moss away and for the first time Tom Brady threw fewer than 3 TDs.


Randy Moss is the playmaker, the guy they can throw the ball to in the endzone with 3 defenders on him, and be reasonably sure he'll come down with it.

 

[Brother None]

Well, the Eagles took Moss away and for the first time Tom Brady threw fewer than 3 TDs.

No, the Eagles took Moss away and threw good defenders on the other top guys. Moss was a non-factor in both the Cleveland and especially the Redskins (#1 pass D, remember?) game, but both lost, Washington by 52-7.

So, Moss has been taken away 3 times, and only once did it significantly impact the Pats pass offense. Your conclusion: taking away Moss stops the Pats pass offense!

Your conclusion = zero sense.

 

[fallout ranger]

So, Moss has been taken away 3 times, and only once did it significantly impact the Pats pass offense. Your conclusion: taking away Moss stops the Pats pass offense!

Your conclusion = zero sense.

Your conclusion of my conclusion=zero sense



I never said it stops their offense, I said (or implied at least) that it'll slow them down and make them throw the ball somewhere else...or run.

 

[Brother None]

I never said it stops their offense, I said (or implied at least) that it'll slow them down and make them throw the ball somewhere else...or run.

They can put up 52 points against the number 1 pass D Redskins, with Moss moving for only 47 yards and 1 TD. If that is what the Pats offense looks like when slowed down, are they supposed to score 80 points when Moss is a factor?

Oh, man, you think maybe taking away Moss doesn't change all that much? My point, again, is that the only effect of taking away Moss is making Brady turn to someone else and still win the game. This has been the case in every game they played, it's that simple.

 

[fallout ranger]

Who goes #1 in next year's draft?

 

[Brother None]

Who goes #1 in next year's draft?

Darren McFadden.

Not because he's the best pick, but because teams are scared of repeating the Adrian Peterson embarrassment.

I think it'd be a foolish pick, but it still seems like a very likely one. It'd be funny if the Pats end up with the first pick thanks to the 49ers, though I doubt they'd pick McFadden, because they have a fine running game with the underrated Sammy Morris.

Brian Bohm will go to whatever team needs a QB (Falcons?)

Can't say I follow the draft enough to say otherwise.

 

[fallout ranger]

Colt Brennan will go high, but he'll probably pull an Alex Smith/David Carr.




EDIT: whoever hasn't already, should watch a Florida Gators game and get a look at Tim Tebow.

 

[New Enclave]

Oh, man, you think maybe taking away Moss doesn't change all that much? My point, again, is that the only effect of taking away Moss is making Brady turn to someone else and still win the game. This has been the case in every game they played, it's that simple.

We really shouldn't forget that Brady was doing this without Moss, Welker, and Stallworth call it the Brady magic.

EDIT: whoever hasn't already, should watch a Florida Gators game and get a look at Tim Tebow.

You know superman wears Tebow pajamas right? The guy is a relatively young starting QB who is physically bigger than the Gators starting LBs, seriously he is. If he can stay healthy and lose some of the arrogance, I like his professional chances.