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Stag
Guest
The way I see it, F3's RT combat is just targeting, as well. It's the same as VATS, it's just faster.
NMA: indirect Fallout 3 Q&A
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Slicerdicer
First time out of the vault
Zero Pike said:
I think there is more to it than seems to be mentioned. They (Beth folks) make a big deal out of it and I'm sure they must have more to or they wouldn't. Seems it's based on your skills either way. It's what I got from the variose reviews. However if there is several muties or what not shooting at you it would be hard to take a nice shot at them in RT while they are plugging away at you. So you pause and select your targets. Each target uses action points not the pause it's self. So a head shot on mutie one is 3 pts an arm shot on mutie 2 is 2pts. You have say 6 pts so thats it your done and you let RT go again and the bullets fly until your AP recharges. I know if you fire in RT it slows down you AP recharge but does simply moving and evading? I think not as it seems if you don't attack your AP recovers quickly and you can take aimed shots again and so doing anything else wouldn't affect it. This is my take on it based on the varios reads. MY main questions to be answered are 1.) can you do anything else while paused ie relaod, switch guns, arm a bomd etc. 2.) Can the NPCs with you be directed during combat in any way. 3.) Does the 3rd view camer work indoors/combat properly? If so/yes to these then this FINO may have a chance of being a Fallout game. So of the stuff regard dialog sounds good as well as the weapon make/degrade stuff and the real consequences for your actions. They need to work on the muties art work or hopefully there so varied that the demo one isn't a comman look. If they called this Fallout:anything but 3 it would sound like a vairly decent game minus the Fat Boy. The sequel name is Beth's biggest fuck up IMHO.
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Stag
Guest
I'm guessing that Beth is implementing AP as AP was in Fallout, insomuch as all shots cost the same, not that specific body parts cost more.
Slicerdicer
First time out of the vault
Stag said:
Ok than I can agree with that. So mutie 1 head shot is 3 AP and mutie 2 hand shot is 3 AP and the shots are made based on your skills values with that weapon. You have 6ap total/used so you let RT go and your character attempts perform the strategy shots while the muties take theirs. It would be real hard in straight RT to plan and make those shots twitch style. I'm sure you can hit the head while firing away but I doubt it was that you planed it to aim for it and then shot the others muties arm while the muties where coming at you barrels blazing rather than just blind luck. Even if it's really just RTwP it's still better strategy wise then just RT IMO.
S
Stag
Guest
That just wouldn't be fun in RT. I don't like the idea of a skill/twitch based FPS. It would just be annoying.
Stag said:
They had that same complaints with Morrowind, actually. Dunno if they learned. Oblivion's skill-determines-damage system would make more sense.
The V.A.T.S. thing still doesn't make sense completely. Even though most of you won't remember I had asked if you could choose skin color and so forth, apparently you can because in one of the pictures you can clearly see a black male. I kinda like the way you'll be in a sense a test tube baby and all your traits will determine YOU as the player. I also like the ability to sneak around enemies, seems more in depth now that it's in 1st/3rd person view. I'm still skeptical about somethings but I feel a little better about somethings as well. I know a lot of us were kinda pissed about the nuclear catapult thing, but I mean we did have the choice to use an Alien Blaster in the originals which if you think about it is kinda far fetched but then again you got it in a random encounter too. Why it's nuclear I'm not sure considering all the damage done by the nukes you'd think the LAST thing you'd want is more.... radiation.
Mentats said:
The difference being that rayguns are very retro 50's, unlike nuclear catapults.
he said that you can zoom out to a birds eye view like in Fallout.
how can I aim and shoot enemies in RT in this mode?. and when I enter VATS, the game automatically puts you in FPP? Or can you target body parts from a Fallout like perspective?
this game will have a crosshair?
He also said that if you shoot in the head in RT, it will have the same effects as shooting the head in VATS.
Using a mouse to target body parts is easy (CounterStrike headshots?). So, having the same effect, VATS becomes obsolete for mouse users.
So, it is logical that VATS is primerly for console users that have no mouse and suck at aiming . VATS is like an eloborate version of SOFTLOCK!?
how can I aim and shoot enemies in RT in this mode?. and when I enter VATS, the game automatically puts you in FPP? Or can you target body parts from a Fallout like perspective?
this game will have a crosshair?
He also said that if you shoot in the head in RT, it will have the same effects as shooting the head in VATS.
Using a mouse to target body parts is easy (CounterStrike headshots?). So, having the same effect, VATS becomes obsolete for mouse users.
So, it is logical that VATS is primerly for console users that have no mouse and suck at aiming . VATS is like an eloborate version of SOFTLOCK!?
Grotesque said:
This is by far the best explanation for V.A.T.S. i've read so far and it looks like the most "reasonable" one. The demo is being run on xbox afterall. As to be expected "fallout"3 is just a console fps with some "rp" elements and a fallout-ish theme.
I wonder whats next? Fallout: RTS rough turned sodomizing
Toadd Horrorward: Oh Demons, what should I do? These feasants drive me crazy... Now they want a turn-based game! In 2008? F*cking apes and the monolith! How I'm supposed to rule such incontent people???
Demon No.29: Don't worry, master, we'll come up with something... Look, we already have that PAUSE function in game, why wouldn't we add a bit of make-up to it, huh?
Toadd Horrorward: *eating his fingernails to the bones* What, WHAT?! Out with it, slimeball!
Demon No.29: *frightened* I don't know, APs or something... So they have a feeling it's turn based. They could aim while the game is paused and spend APs, then unpause and watch the results of their "turn", hehehe... We could give it a cool name too, like, like... I don't know, something from the previous games? Maybe VATS, I heard there was something like that in Fallout from a guy who played it.
Toadd Horrorward: Hmmmm, I like it, I like it... Good boy, I'll raise your share to 0,000000065%! Now go, and do it outstanding! And tell those PR monkeys to keep nuking those feasants till they drown in their own shit!
Demon No.29: Don't worry, master, we'll come up with something... Look, we already have that PAUSE function in game, why wouldn't we add a bit of make-up to it, huh?
Toadd Horrorward: *eating his fingernails to the bones* What, WHAT?! Out with it, slimeball!
Demon No.29: *frightened* I don't know, APs or something... So they have a feeling it's turn based. They could aim while the game is paused and spend APs, then unpause and watch the results of their "turn", hehehe... We could give it a cool name too, like, like... I don't know, something from the previous games? Maybe VATS, I heard there was something like that in Fallout from a guy who played it.
Toadd Horrorward: Hmmmm, I like it, I like it... Good boy, I'll raise your share to 0,000000065%! Now go, and do it outstanding! And tell those PR monkeys to keep nuking those feasants till they drown in their own shit!
Bartoneus
First time out of the vault
If your character is an agile sniper, logic says he'd have very high gun skills and therefore his percentages in VATS would be very high, so you would be able to play the game very effectively within the RTwP system.
hybrid RT/TB = RTwP
Not sure how you think this would work, really, but the targeting in realtime is cursor based in what was shown.
This will most likely be one of the LEAST skill/twitch based FPS games that have been made.
VATS zooms you in on your enemy (one at a time), it's not FPP but it is close up.
I'm not 100% on the realtime headshotting, but it makes sense to me. They're not rewarding twitch play but they don't want to punish it either. Please remember that ammunition for your weapons will be VERY SCARCE throughout the game, so if you'd like to keep plugging away at a mutant's head hoping you hit it be my guest, or you could up your guns skill and use VATS and get headshots without wasting as much ammo each time.
It's certainly plausible that VATS was developed to aid console gamers because of the lack of a mouse, but also remember that this is a single player game. If you're a great FPS player sure you can go through the game and play it like an FPS, but if you want this to be an RPG why the hell not play it that way? Up your skills, use VATS, and you'll be spending the majority of combat in a hybrid turned-based/real time game. Just because it has the capability of being a typical FPS doesn't mean you will be required to play it like one.
And for the love of god, the bobbleheads are such a small part of the overall game you guys really need to drop it.
Placid said:If thats the case, it certainly falls in nicely with his quote of "we dont want to be rewarding twitch play"Zero Pike said:
Exactly. I said as much a while ago on their forum saying that they better come up with something better then VATS to convince me that they were not 'rewarding twitch play'.
OK, so they make it a bit more tactical but it is in essence still twitch gameplay.
Another flaw. So you pause. Qeue up a few aimed shots and then it plays out in RT. So, you have to wait untill RT starts to see what has happened. Say you take two aimed shots at a mutie but the first one kills him. You probably just waisted a shot. If ammo is supposed to be abbundant, then this is not such a big problem. But if it is supposed to be rare.........
@ Bartoneus
About your defination of RT/TB hybrid being RTwP. That is certainly one definition of it. What we mean with it here is more along the lines of the Tactics system.
No. I want it to be cTRPG. RPG can be anything, e.g. SIMS with stats. And I don't want that with a Fallout name on it.
That's what's it all about. They do make an official Fallout sequel, but it doesn't look like one either.
It's such a small part among other small parts which altogether make majority of parts and are stupid inventions, which shouldn't be in a Fallout universe/game.
He meant a system where you can choose between Real-time and Turn-based.Bartoneus said:
And it will probably be one of the MOST twitch-based RPGs games that have been made.Bartoneus said:
Fallout wasn't an FPS, it was a RPG.
The hybrid system is still not anywhere near an actual, proper turn-based system.bartoneus said:
True, but it's exemplary of the attitude Bethesda has taken towards this game so far.Bartoneus said:
Also, people, for the love of god, please stop using 'cTRPG'. It's a contradictio in terminis. A game cannot be a computer Tabletop game. It's impossible. Call it a trueform of RPG or something similar, but this abbreviation is just silly, not to mention completely unknown outside of this forum since Sorrow made it up.
Bartoneus
First time out of the vault
Keep in mind that we have only seen less then 10% of the game, so anything you talk about being a "majority of parts" is hardly accurate.
Considering bobbleheads first became widespread in the 50's and 60's, how do you figure they don't fit into the idea of a post-apocalyptic 50's future?