NMA, the Doom and Gloom Fallout Community, Hello!

[MKSaibot]

No one get offended, everyone calm down, its a half joke?

You guys do know that Fallout 4 is the first truly open world Fallout game? We know this? Well in case anyone doesn't. In Skyrim if you say wanted to walk into a major city without a loading, you had to download a mod called "Open Cities" or something like that its been awhile, on the nexus. Their is a mod for about everything with Skyrim now.

Ok, In Fallout 4 the game has actual open verticality if that makes sense? You can be in a vertibird and jump out at will, landing where ever, and on what ever it is you just happen to land on when you just happen to have decided to jump out of the vertibird. Now what does this haft to do with how good or bad of a Fallout game Fallout 4 is going to be, well it has nothing to do with that. Its just something that can be over looked about Fallout 4.

Let's strike closer to home,

You go to the Den, you go to Vault City, go to New Reno, go to NCR (whatever the town is called south of the map its been awhile), and you then go to San Fransico. What game am I talking about? Fallout 2, of course. Now if anyone remembers playing Fallout 2 for the first time, they remember how awesome it was entering all these different unique settlements that all had their own personality and vibe. Some of the settlements were thriving even.

In Fallout 3, you exit your vault, you go from settlement A, B, C, then the Enclave is the technological turn around for the game along with the Brotherhood of Steel. The highlight of the entire game is the Enclave armor probably, other then that its kind of empty if you compare it directly to Fallout 1 or 2.

Alright lets move on, we are almost in 2016, we got Season Passes, we got DLC's that get developed before the game comes out (generalizing, not talking about F4). We have got CoD games coming out every freaking year, we have Assassin Creed games now coming out literally every year. Ubisoft milking the fuck out of that series at this point, lets face it. You have Consoles as the main market, at best you get a Console and PC game now days. At worse you get a console port to PC, with Fallout 4 you get a Console and PC game which means the PC version has had active development since the beginning.

With that said, no one should be surprised anymore. This community, you guys are out of your minds, really. I mean I love NMA, the thread about how Bethesda focuses way too much on the Vault Dweller, or Vault Tech if you will, totally agree. I mean I am on the level here with a lot of you all with the Fallout series, but every Fallout 4 discussion on here is no negative.

You guys liked Fallout New Vegas right? I thought it was great as well. You guys liked Morrowind? Skyrim? I think those games are great as well. Here is the ultimate conclusion.

You all know what is up, I have read enough discussions before making this thread, no one is naive here at NMA. However, their is just nothing but negative, that's the thing. Normally you got some dude who will post a thread on a forum "Why are you all so negative about this game?", whatever the said game may be. %99 of the time that person who made that thread is over exaggerating, its more like 80% positive 20% negative or something like that, let's go with that.

Here though at NMA, it is like 99% negative, its insane, I mean really. I have never seen anything like it, I have honestly never made a thread like this before. If I was just a Fallout 3 fan, I wouldn't make thread like this here. I have played every Fallout game, started playing Fallout 2 early on (played several times, many hours), it is by far the best single player RPG for me of all time. However, I am super excited about Fallout 4, I don't know if that is because I know something you all don't about the game or see something in it that strikes me better then F3 did?

I was not a fan of Fallout 3 before it came out, and I sure wasn't a fan of the game after I played it. Fallout 3 is shit from ass in comparison to the original Fallout games. However, I am really excited about Fallout 4, Bethesda is not making Fallout 3 again, I mean you guys act like they are making Fallout 3.5, its crazy.

Think about it, some of you I would just almost call haters, the actual definition though. I am not pointing any fingers, but its like the KKK up in here. "That mother fucker likes Fallout 4! KILL THAT BETHESDA LOVER!"

Ok, will draw the line their. Someone laughed, I guarantee it.

 

[ChildServices]

You say this nonsense about "open world sandboxes" as if it's even relevant to any of the reasons they dislike it or Fallout 3.

 

[MKSaibot]

You say this nonsense about "open world sandboxes" as if it's even relevant to any of the reasons they dislike it or Fallout 3.

"Now what does this haft to do with how good or bad of a Fallout game Fallout 4 is going to be, well it has nothing to do with that"

Keep reading?

And I dislike Fallout 3 as well, so..

I know the OP jumps around a bit, I kind of just went with it, but the point is their. This community is just a tad over the edge with negativity toward Fallout 4. If I had not come here originally to discuss Fallout 4, only to find some radical negativity toward Fallout 4 I would not have felt compelled to make this thread. I felt the urge to tell you all what I think about this community, I mean I didn't just register here. You just joined last year, not that I care, I am by far not even close to the oldest registered users here.

Anyway I did what I wanted to do, the post is here, might get deleted, some of you may not like it, but this strictly is a Fallout 1 & 2 community. If I have come here to discuss anything positive about Fallout 4, I have came to the wrong place, I think everyone here can agree with that, if not I have definitely missed something.

 

[generalissimofurioso]

Except that none of what you just said has anything to do with whether or not the game is any good.

We fell in love with Fallout games because they were great RPG's.

Strong writing that reacts to the player's actions, creative locations and factions, memorable characters, meaningful character creation.

Those are the things that make RPG's great.

What you're describing is basically meaningless as a point.

Yeah, there's negativity, but it's because we've seen nothing from Bethesda that shows they have learned anything about making great RPG's.

We don't owe Bethesda any benefit of the doubt, because they are not our friend.

They're not your friend, they're not my friend.

They're trying to sell a product.

And they're not doing a good job selling it to us.

 

[PossibleCabbage]

What does "there aren't loading screens" and "you can jump out of flying things" have to do with being an open world?

I mean really, Bethesda simply hasn't made any overtures towards old-school or otherwise curmudgeonly Fallout fans, and if they bothered to do so I imagine we'd listen. Like if they'd sit down and say "here are some things we learned from New Vegas" that'd score a lot of points. Until then, I see no reason to eat up the marketing spiel that simply isn't meant for me. They're trying to sell a product, and at least as far as I'm concerned they're not doing a very good job.

we've seen nothing from Bethesda that shows they have learned anything about making great RPG's.

It's honestly fairly questionable whether Bethesda makes RPGs at all, anymore. If Fallout 4 is just going to be a shooter/loot cave depletion simulator, I'm just not going to bother to play with it because I don't like shooters and depleting loot caves gets dull quickly (I mean, I already played Skyrim.)

 

[MKSaibot]

The point,

Their is not ever going to be another Fallout or Fallout 2. That is the point. While captain obvious as it is, I guess some of the discussions I read, some of the replies of some the people here was so negative, it was like anti Fallout in a way. NMA is suppose to be this passionate community, like I shared in my op, I stated you all are not naive, and know what is up. You guys are not fan boys, this not a fan boy community which is why I registered here 6 years ago.

Basically I am saying get over it, Fallout 3 was not even the last Bethesda game before Fallout 4. Believe it or not New Vegas is a Bethesda game, Obsidian developed spin off or not, it is a Bethesda game. You would think after so many years since Fallout 2 you all would just kind of get use to how the gaming industry works now. You can't develop a game to a specific audience anymore like Fallout 1 and Fallout 2. The game has to sell to as many people as possible, basically saying take Fallout 4 for what it is, it is not that bad. It is what it is, and no its not Fallout 1 or 2, but it is a Fallout game, and Bethesda is not the worse company to be developing it. Am I expecting this community to go full on blind fan boy? No, but their is some real negativity here, its a tad too much in my opinion.

Even this is not going to help anything, I am not disagreeing with the replies you all have shared here. I just don't belong here, this thread is me speaking before thinking, I know better, but I am out of here.

 

[PossibleCabbage]

Here's the question though. Old-schoolish RPGs like Wasteland 2, Pillars of Eternity, Shadowrun Returns, Divinity: Original Sin, etc. have an audience and make money.

What reason would Bethesda have to refuse to license the Fallout IP to be used in a game like that? Nobody's asking Beth to make it, but it's not like they'd have a hard time finding someone else to do it.

 

[TransgenderVaultDeweller]

It truly amazes me that after countless videos online of Todd Howard lying and the blatant mediocre titles at best that have been released too the public. I'd imagine some people would become wiser.

But nope, This thread is kind of evidence of that fact, of confidences in a company that is deliberately refusing to even talk about any aspect of the story mechanics. Companion information, Choice and consequence, and so on.

With that in mind, It's safe too say Bethesda's fallout is going to be the same as Fallout 3. Same writer as well if you still have doubt. No evidence presented to sway any doubt and only to reaffirm it.

And the sad thing is, You're still falling for the lies.

I'll depart with this.

 

[Walpknut]

"Get over it" oh man, here it comes another thread about "Please stop saying anything negative ever!". If discussions on the decay of a medium are ceased then that medium can't ever evolve, also Forums are kind of meant to be about discussing things, just becasue we know that Fallout is basically dead in Bethesda's hands doesn't mean we just have to accept it with a wide smile and our cheeks spread.

Also a lot of projects are being born out of the disgust for the state of the industry so this type of forum is pretty useful. You want to complain about negativity go to the Codex, heard they are a more positive and welcoming bunch.

 

[generalissimofurioso]

Seriously, why do we always have these prosilytizers come in and try to get us to be more positive?

I'm plenty positive.

There's lots of stuff I look forward to and things I enjoy.

I'm just dissatisfied with what I'm seeing from Fallout 4.

And guess what?

That's okay!

I don't obsess over it.

I'm not ignoring my friends and loved ones to argue about it.

I'm not against Fallout 4 because it's a Bethesda game.

I'm against bad writing and terrible design being excused simply because the game is open-world and popular.

We don't have to settle for Bethesda just doing the same old crap they always do just because they've improved on a technical level (we don't even know if the game won't be a buggy wreck on release) and finally got rid of loading screens.

Hell, they could make the most technically awesome game ever.

But if it has the shitty writing Bethesda usually falls back on, then they're doing everyone a disservice.

They can do better.

They should do better.

 

[Dr Fallout]

Ugh do we really need this? Look we dislike Fallout 3/4 and are annoyed at the Bethesda treatment.

And who cares if the Open World is nonsensical and stupid? Oh wait we do.

 

[PossibleCabbage]

The funny thing about this thread is that in most every other video game forum out there if you posted something like "you know, I really don't like what I've seen about Fallout 4 so far" you'd get shouted down by legions of people who already have awarded it GotY. So if anything, as those who have been caught in the hype cycle are so hostile to those who are dubious about it, you're basically encouraging various pockets of "negativity" to form among like-minded folks.

Like it or not, we've actually seen very little about Fallout 4, so concluding that it will be a good game is every bit as much a leap of logic as concluding that it won't. People are just conditioned to see games as the best thing since sliced bread up until they're released.

 

[Dr Fallout]

The funny thing about this thread is that in most every other video game forum out there if you posted something like "you know, I really don't like what I've seen about Fallout 4 so far" you'd get shouted down by legions of people who already have awarded it GotY. So if anything, as those who have been caught in the hype cycle are so hostile to those who are dubious about it, you're basically encouraging various pockets of "negativity" to form among like-minded folks.

Like it or not, we've actually seen very little about Fallout 4, so concluding that it will be a good game is every bit as much a leap of logic as concluding that it won't. People are just conditioned to see games as the best thing since sliced bread up until they're released.

Oh no it's going to a Game of the Year masterpiece. We can all bet they've already payed off the press, cause they might notice something... no point doing that to the crowd they can't see for shit!

 

[88e]

The funny thing about this thread is that in most every other video game forum out there if you posted something like "you know, I really don't like what I've seen about Fallout 4 so far" you'd get shouted down by legions of people who already have awarded it GotY. So if anything, as those who have been caught in the hype cycle are so hostile to those who are dubious about it, you're basically encouraging various pockets of "negativity" to form among like-minded folks.

Seriously. NMA is treated like some irredeemable cesspool but anywhere else you go online and people will immediately jump down your throat for disliking Bethesda's material.

 

[naossano]

OP >
Are you trying to debate or it is just a self-fullfilling rant ?

 

[phipboy]

But we can have games that follow Fallout 1's and 2's design and creative concepts really closely. Fallout: New Vegas shows that and it sold decently well too. If BGS actually cared and try to make a game close to New Vegas with their marketing moneys they'd make a decent game that will sell as much if not even more than what we have now as Fallout 4. Making an open world game where you can go on vertibirds and some shit doesn't really make it any better. Maybe it will sell +100 copies or something but when was Fallout ever about flying vertibirds? If anything it shows us that BGS only care about making hiking/exploration simulators.

 

[AgentBJ09]

The point,

Their is not ever going to be another Fallout or Fallout 2. That is the point. While captain obvious as it is, I guess some of the discussions I read, some of the replies of some the people here was so negative, it was like anti Fallout in a way. NMA is suppose to be this passionate community, like I shared in my op, I stated you all are not naive, and know what is up. You guys are not fan boys, this not a fan boy community which is why I registered here 6 years ago.

You're assuming everyone who preferred Fallout 1, 2 and New Vegas versus 3 wants an exact replica of the first two games, just with a new story. If you know this isn't a fan-boy forum, you should be aware that's not the case.

Basically I am saying get over it.

That's the spineless way of dealing with ideas and products one doesn't like. Walk away, head sunken, versus speak up and say something.

Fallout 3 was not even the last Bethesda game before Fallout 4. Believe it or not New Vegas is a Bethesda game, Obsidian developed spin off or not, it is a Bethesda game.

That's like saying Deus Ex: Human Revolution was a Square Enix product and not Eidos Montreal's. Square had no hand in its creation, just the publishing. Bethesda published New Vegas and set the groundwork for its creation, yes, but everything made for the game besides that was Obsidian's work.

You would think after so many years since Fallout 2 you all would just kind of get use to how the gaming industry works now.

Once again, the spineless way of dealing with things. Need I remind you of the number of things gamers have changed by speaking up, angrily or passionately, about something? Remember "Augment Your Pre-Order?" Gone as of this week, because gamers hated it and said enough to make it stop.

You can't develop a game to a specific audience anymore like Fallout 1 and Fallout 2.

BS. Wasteland 2, Pillars of Eternity, Divinity: Original Sin, Way of the Samurai, Earth Defense Force 2025, Shin Megami Tensei, and many others prove this. You only can't develop a game for a specific audience if you stand to lose money because of its failure in the market, or the budget of the game is bloating so much that the only way it can be profitable for your company is to have it appeal to people outside of the established fanbases.

The game has to sell to as many people as possible, basically saying take Fallout 4 for what it is, it is not that bad. It is what it is, and no its not Fallout 1 or 2, but it is a Fallout game, and Bethesda is not the worse company to be developing it.

That doesn't mean they have to excessively streamline systems that have been in use since 1997, or not put more effort into ensuring the story doesn't have plot-holes a truck could drive through.

Am I expecting this community to go full on blind fan boy? No, but their is some real negativity here, its a tad too much in my opinion.

If a company has a history of bad development practices, and allows their community to fix their games, with little appreciation and humility shown when it happens, how else would you treat them?

Here's the question though. Old-schoolish RPGs like Wasteland 2, Pillars of Eternity, Shadowrun Returns, Divinity: Original Sin, etc. have an audience and make money.

What reason would Bethesda have to refuse to license the Fallout IP to be used in a game like that? Nobody's asking Beth to make it, but it's not like they'd have a hard time finding someone else to do it.

Exactly. The Kickstarters for these games would not have been so notable if the demand for games like these was nonexistent.

"Get over it" oh man, here it comes another thread about "Please stop saying anything negative ever!". If discussions on the decay of a medium are ceased then that medium can't ever evolve, also Forums are kind of meant to be about discussing things, just becasue we know that Fallout is basically dead in Bethesda's hands doesn't mean we just have to accept it with a wide smile and our cheeks spread.

Also a lot of projects are being born out of the disgust for the state of the industry so this type of forum is pretty useful. You want to complain about negativity go to the Codex, heard they are a more positive and welcoming bunch.

Yep, and gamers have made a lot of changes to the industry by not being silent about things they hate: "Augment Your Pre-Order" is gone, Steam allows refunds after so many years of not allowing it, and etc.

 

[PossibleCabbage]

BS. Wasteland 2, Pillars of Eternity, Divinity: Original Sin, Way of the Samurai, Earth Defense Force 2025, Shin Megami Tensei, and many others prove this. You only can't develop a game for a specific audience if you stand to lose money because of its failure in the market, or the budget of the game is bloating so much that the only way it can be profitable for your company is to have it appeal to people outside of the established fanbases.

To be perfectly explicit nobody is asking Bethesda to make a fully voiced, real-time, 3D AAA game for us. That would be silly. Since they insist on making that sort of game, all we can really ask is for things like "a coherent and smart plot", "memorable characters", "nuanced politics and morality", "due respect for the lore and a thoughtful approach to worldbuilding", and "interesting mechanical systems that can support a wide variety of different characters". Bethesda's track record on these things isn't good, and what they've shown of Fallout 4 isn't particularly encouraging. But insofar as they're going to make Fallout 4 as a fully voiced etc. AAA game, it's not impossible to please us.

But to say "there's never going to be another Fallout 2 so get over it" is basically to discount those games that don't cost $100m to make. If Bethesda hired someone to make an isometric, mostly text, turn-based game in the Fallout universe there would totally be an audience for it and NMA would most likely adore it (assuming they actually did a good job).

 

[MercenarySnake]

Another Bethesda fan trying to sway us from hating their Fallout games but i'm not going to change my mind after all the lies they spew in trailers and interviews.
I rather not play dungeon and hiking simulator with guns 4.0 as I know Bethesda too well when it comes to their games, put simply they're fun for a bit until you become God in addition to seeing a lot of the scenery/dungeons are copy and paste then it gets boring.

 

[Graham2077]

The funny thing about this thread is that in most every other video game forum out there if you posted something like "you know, I really don't like what I've seen about Fallout 4 so far" you'd get shouted down by legions of people who already have awarded it GotY. So if anything, as those who have been caught in the hype cycle are so hostile to those who are dubious about it, you're basically encouraging various pockets of "negativity" to form among like-minded folks.

Seriously. NMA is treated like some irredeemable cesspool but anywhere else you go online and people will immediately jump down your throat for disliking Bethesda's material.

I browse Reddit (I have no idea why, it's just one big circle jerk) and almost EVERY thread about Fallout 4 has a bunch of people talking shit about NMA. They even went to the extent of calling this site the "Isis" of Fallout fans. Now I realize that I haven't been here very long, but I did try and defend NMA on there and guess what happened? I got 50+ downvotes lol

Maybe this site is overly negative, but honestly I just don't think there is anything positive to say. There is some stuff I like in Fallout 4, the guns look okay, the new Deathclaws look great and the animations look great, but there really isn't much to talk about that hasn't already been said. The majority of the stuff that we've seen has been very mediocre imo, but to the rest of the world they make it sound like the goddamn game of the century which I just don't understand at all. There are a lot of people who are looking forward to Fallout 4 and I get it, but the game seems like it's being marketed to the majority that loved Fallout 3 and is basically a big fuck you to everyone else who wanted change.