NMAid: Gas in Germany

Tagaziel

Tagaziel

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I'm (or rather we're) having a problem in Germany right now. We have not registered for a gas connection (it's useless to us at this point), we did not receive any kind of notice, did not sign anything, our Wohngemeinschaft hasn't signed anything in our name either... Yet a few weeks ago we received an invoice from E-on Mitte (local biggest gas provider) that we "receive gas from them" and that we should "provide access to our bank account, so that they can deduct a monthly fee of 100 Euro," with the first payment to be made on 6. August. Two days ago they sent a reminder, adding 5 Euro on top of that.

Attempts to contact E-on on the matter and explain that we do not want their damn gas have so far failed. We'll probably be contacting the local Consumer Ombudsman for legal help.

But for now, NMAid, I bessech you:

1. Can German companies arbitrarily decide to provide you with gas and demand payment without presenting any contract for signing?
2. Is this a GIVE ME YOUR FUCKING MONEY situation, where they count on foreigners' ignorance to GET OUR FUCKING MONEY?
3. I don't recall any obligation to purchase gas from anyone in Germany... Right?

Last, for anyone living in Germany, any idea for BGB paragraphs to cite?
 
Hm. It's possible that gas connections are active by default in flats, and I'm not sure if you can cancel that. Should be possible, though.
If you don't need gas, how do you heat and get warm water=
 
We have an electrical water heater. All of our home appliances are electrical too. Gas is for heating only (E-ON: OH GOD SO MUCH HEATING TO BE DONE IN 30 DEGREES WEATHER).

Oh, and one more thing. Upon reception of E-on's love letter, we checked if we are actually receiveing gas. We're not, they apparently removed our gas counter (no loss). So currently, they're demanding cash without providing a service.

*sigh*
 
Alright, I'm pretty sure you can do something there.
I'll ask a friend of mine who studies law, she might know something.
 
Who is your landlord? Sprechen sie englisch? Or is the Wohngemeinschaft your landlord? What does your Wohngemeinschaft say on the matter? Something sounds a little weird. A scam maybe? It just doesn't make any sense to have no gas ticker installed yet they want a flat rate/month. I thought people only paid a bill for the gas they use. No ticker, no usage, no bill!
 
Gas is a little weird here.
You pay a monthly fee, but if you consume less than what you paid for, you get money back next month and your fee gets lowered. The gas companies basically get a little free credit at times.
Alright, all people I asked told me that you should
a) write a letter to E-On that you don't use any gas and
b) ignore their letters telling you to pay because there is nothing they can do. If they try to drag you to court it's pretty certain that you'll win.
 
mobucks said:
Who is your landlord? Sprechen sie englisch? Or is the Wohngemeinschaft your landlord? What does your Wohngemeinschaft say on the matter? Something sounds a little weird. A scam maybe? It just doesn't make any sense to have no gas ticker installed yet they want a flat rate/month. I thought people only paid a bill for the gas they use. No ticker, no usage, no bill!
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Reminds me to a case with some family and their own home and the issue they had with the town.

The story was basically this. Their house has no conection with the canalisation from the town because when they build their house they somehow got a "biological filter system" or something similar for the sewage so which works completely without a canalisations. Still the town wanted to get money from them for it. It was a rather strange story but I remember it was on TV once because they had not even much of achance to go the curt despite the fact that they have been right.
 
Update: Looking through the documents I found their letter from June, where they stated, that they have researched the situation and found out that we are living in our flat, and that they are obliged [sic] to provide gas to people.

In the process of renovating the flat, we totally forgot about that letter. It turns out E-on wrote that "if you do not reply to us by 28. June 2012, we consider that as an acceptance of our terms of gas delivery," which I find insane. In Polish law, silent acceptation of contract terms is only permitted between businesses, not between businesses and private persons.

Turns out we also have a counter, it just doesn't work. Tried turning on gas heating, it doesn't work.

What. The. Fuck.
 
So do you or do you not receive actual gas? If not, then you have nothing to worry about, because they can't sue you nor are they deducting money from your bank account.

If yes, then visit their local office and talk about it to the manager. Have they supplied you with the actual terms on gas usage? Study it just in case. If you've 'signed' an agreement, you should be able to remove it too, no matter obligation or not. You might have to pay out for the two months' worth of debt, but at least you'll know better next time.
 
Tagaziel said:
Update: Looking through the documents I found their letter from June, where they stated, that they have researched the situation and found out that we are living in our flat, and that they are obliged [sic] to provide gas to people.
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Yip. Several countries work that way. I think we do, too. Or did, before liberalization laws.

Just talk to them. Something was messed up in their administration, since your gas is apparently closed off. Just inform them of that fact.
 
We don't want gas. We don't want anything to do with E.ON and we'll be switching our energy provider ASAP.

Does anyone know if it's permitted to have silent acceptance of contract terms in a non-professional relation between private persons and businesses? In German law, I mean. It doesn't work that way in Polish civil law.
 
since their documents state that they are required to provide gas service, then why cant you sue them for failing to provide said service since you moved in?

make sure to provide photos of the area where the gas comes in showing there is no meter, and no means for them to provide said service.

and also sue them for not only failing to provide said service of providing gas to your place, but also for not ensuring you had any appliances that can use their service.


1) there is no meter or means of connection for their service to your flat

2) you have no appliances or anything that can use their service

3) they consumed your time and effort taking photos and filing suit against them

sue them on all 3 parts.
 
Well I wouldn't get out with the hammer and sue them, I would just explain them the situation in all possible details, with all possible arguments. If that really doesn't help... well, then I don't know.
 
Tagaziel said:
silent acceptation of contract terms is only permitted between businesses, not between businesses and private persons.
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actually that is true here in Germany as well. don't you have the chance to visit a lawyer there or something?

Though if they HAVE to provide it ... things might be a bit different here. Particularly if it has something to do with the town. The usual person is usually always the looser here ...

TheWesDude said:
since their documents state that they are required to provide gas service, then why cant you sue them for failing to provide said service since you moved in?

make sure to provide photos of the area where the gas comes in showing there is no meter, and no means for them to provide said service.

and also sue them for not only failing to provide said service of providing gas to your place, but also for not ensuring you had any appliances that can use their service.
Click to expand...
you know the real problem here is that many of the services today, like gas, electricity, telecommunication etc. have been often part of the town or owned by the state in the past. The Telecom one of the biggest telecommunication companies was once a company run by the state. Same for the post offices. But today many if not all of those companies are privatized. But you still have many areas where naturally the private and governmental sector overlap each other. And sadly the usual person is the idiot then ...
 
I doubt that they can charge you for something they did not provide, even if there was silent acceptance. You should go to the police and report it as a scam.
 
I can't believe no-one, NOT A SINGLE PERSON IN THIS THREAD, made EVEN A SINGLE JOKE about Tagaziel being a Polak living in Germany, getting a dose of 'unwanted gas'.
WHAT THE FUCK IS WRONG WITH YOU PEOPLE? Two days!
 
... sigh.

You could at least write something like, "Just be glad you didn't move to Germany in the 40's, a shitload op Polaks got gas they didn't ask for then!". And that's just the obvious one. Shit could've been so cash.
 
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