Notes on Fallout TV (Return to the Nolanverse complete, Review notes complete)

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I've been busy with catching up on work lately, but I should have enough time and rest to do Nolanverse episode 2 by tomorrow night.
 
Slander!
Bitter Springs was a successful agrocultural reform that limited how big ranches and farms could be. It was passed as a way to limit the influence of brahmin barons and to enable smaller land owners to grow.

Google "Bitter Springs Mass Acre" for more information.
 
As much as I love F3, Bitter SPrings is why I think Fallout: New Vegas is the best because it's one of the rare cases of genuine moral ambiguity. Everyone has a different take on the subject and they're all equally valid. It was a military fuck up but it wasn't deliberate and plenty of people thin it was justified anyway.
 
Yeah. Differentiating between combatants and civilians in tribal socities is difficult. One day farmer, the other day warrior. Bitter Springs might've been a massacre, but a utilitarian might see it as a net positive in the act.
 
Bitter Springs certainly wasn't a "net positive" because it displaced the Khans into the canyon where they couldn't be easily uprooted, and after the Khans learned how to make drugs from the Followers they directly supplied the Fiends and maintained banditry in the NCR's rear. The NCR exacerbated their problems by trying to "pacify" the Khans instead of working out a diplomatic solution, and the blowback of Bitter Springs came in the form of the Fiends.
 
True. But we don't know what would've happened if the Khans continued being a conventional threat, especially as they inhabited an area close to Hoover Dam, which could've been an FOB for the Legion. Resulting in more pressure toward Vegas and Hoover Dam from the north.
Plague or cholera
 
The Khans weren't a conventional threat though, they were a raider group that had already been displaced from the NCR, and displaced from New Vegas. The NCR didn't even belong in the Mojave in the first place, yet their disposition towards tribals and independents is total disregard. The NCR doesn't view any power as an equal to themselves in terms of legitimacy, with the NCR having the only rightful claim to any former US territories. Bitter Springs happened because of their refusal to operate as anything other than an expansionist settler state that is only willing to negotiate in the face of significant conventional force, like the one presented by Mr. House. Even when they do negotiate, it's only a delaying action to facilitate annexation later down the line.

Objectively speaking, Bitter Springs was a disaster for the NCR that set them back permanently. Whereas the Khans could be dealt with reasonably, the Fiends cannot and will be a permanent threat to the NCR's interests.
 
Bradylama said:
Bitter Springs certainly wasn't a "net positive" because it displaced the Khans into the canyon where they couldn't be easily uprooted, and after the Khans learned how to make drugs from the Followers they directly supplied the Fiends and maintained banditry in the NCR's rear. The NCR exacerbated their problems by trying to "pacify" the Khans instead of working out a diplomatic solution, and the blowback of Bitter Springs came in the form of the Fiends.
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The Great Khans were already a clan of Raiders, taking literal shots at NCR personnel, and hostile to the polity. The fact that the Followers of the Apocalypse taught the Great Khans how to make medicine and they immediately turned it into a lucrative drug business is kind of indicative of their position. You can absolutely point out NCR is the aggressor as they're annexing the Mojave where the Great Khans live but the latter aren't exactly owners of the region themselves.
 
The Khan's have most amount of plot armor any faction has ever had in a series. They get wiped out in 1 2 and twice in the events preceding new Vegas yet here they are.

Moore is right, put the boot down and get rid of them. Just as the vault dweller intended. Dealing with the Khan's will kill off a ton of fiends too since they are the primary chem traffickers of the region.
 
They already tried that and it didn't work. They should have done what the Chinese did with their namesake and bought them off as auxiliaries for dealing with other raiders. This is where "we don't negotiate with terrorists" gets you.
 
Bradylama said:
They already tried that and it didn't work. They should have done what the Chinese did with their namesake and bought them off as auxiliaries for dealing with other raiders. This is where "we don't negotiate with terrorists" gets you.
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I mean that policy is the result of dealing with terrorists....and the results of terrorism increasing as a result.

Plenty of RL radicals and extremists turn out to be unreasonable in their demands.

The Khmer Rogue got beaten because the Vietnamese Army smashed them.
 
Yossarrion said:
The Khan's have most amount of plot armor any faction has ever had in a series. They get wiped out in 1 2 and twice in the events preceding new Vegas yet here they are.

Moore is right, put the boot down and get rid of them. Just as the vault dweller intended. Dealing with the Khan's will kill off a ton of fiends too since they are the primary chem traffickers of the region.
Click to expand...

To be fair, that's game engine limitations. The Khans and New Khans are not actually wiped out in either game. The Vault Dweller and Chosen isn't wiping out their villages. They're just killing the warriors present.
 
CT Phipps said:
To be fair, that's game engine limitations. The Khans and New Khans are not actually wiped out in either game. The Vault Dweller and Chosen isn't wiping out their villages. They're just killing the warriors present.
Click to expand...
How many people do you think survived the original Fallout 1, 21 years after the bombs dropped? Shady Sands is a town of like 30 people, there are more Khans in a raiding group than an entire town? The Khans survive game after game and need to be ended already.
 
Yossarrion said:
How many people do you think survived the original Fallout 1, 21 years after the bombs dropped? Shady Sands is a town of like 30 people, there are more Khans in a raiding group than an entire town? The Khans survive game after game and need to be ended already.
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Fallout 1 is like 80 years after the bombs dropped.
 
The point of the Khans coming back every game is that genocides are never complete. It's practically impossible to wipe out an actually existing polity all at once. It's canonical that the Vault Dweller wiped out the Khan basecamp when he rescued Tandi, but there were other Khans out on raids and other survivors who picked up the pieces and moved on. It's also canonical that the Chosen One wiped out the New Khans, but Darion's band wasn't the only remainder. The thematic conclusion to the Khan questline is convincing them to pick up the pieces and move on again after Bitter Springs.

The New Khans are already a reformed group compared to the Khans of old, who killed their own fathers as an intitiation rite. Papa Khan is also a reasonable man, and could have been a ready ally to the NCR after losing their dominion in the Mojave. But he can't let the pain of Bitter Springs go. The best ending for the Khans either involves Papa Khan disbanding the group, or the establishment of a Khan empire in Wyoming with consultation from the Followers of the Apocalypse.
 
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