On the atmosphere of Fallout 2...

Wumbology

Wumbology

Actually a sentient CRT
A lot of people seem to think that Fallout 2 has a muted atmosphere compared to Fallout 1. This is mainly on account of all the pop culture references (which are everywhere) and the presence of a lot of unfitting cities (New Reno, mainly.)

However, I think Fallout 2's atmosphere is, at most, on par with the first title, and at least, still utterly solid.

It portrays a disillusioned remainders of the Master's Army, the recreation of society, and the relationships of the world and how it's adapted- tribes, cities of ghouls and mutants, the NCR, Vault City.

It's a game that focuses much more on how humanity adapts mentally and physically to the conditions present.
 
Fallout 2 depicts a world quite some time after the bombs.
Actual cities form with actual prosperity, and people are not just struggling for survival anymore. Fallout 2 is a lot more upbeat, in a way. I mean, the world is still gritty and shitty, but it's a lot better than Fallout 1. And, for some reason, Fallout 3.
To me, Fallout 2 is the logical evolution of Fallout 1 in terms of atmosphere, at least considering that it takes place a long time after Fallout 1.
 
Languorous_Maiar said:
Fallout 2 is completely for fun, easter eggs and brightness.
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But it isn't, for reasons I (and Hassknecht, you summed it up great) explained: it is logical evolution of Fallout 1, which portrays the politics and societies of the world. And shows how humanity has done, and how it has dealt.

Just look at the dialogue with Marcus, it's full of the philosophical ramifications of the Master and his work, and the Vault Dweller's actions.

How is that just 'fun' or 'brightness'?
 
Fallout 2 is a logical evolution of Fallout 1, that's for sure. But it's also a lot more zany title, which thanks to all its weirdo stuff, (too much?) pop-culture references and a somewhat disconnected world appears a whole lot less gritty and realistic than it truly is, or can be, at least.
 
Atomkilla, Hassknecht, and Wumbology pretty much have it covered as far as I'm concerned. Fallout 2 feels more like a frontier than a wasteland, which is fitting. Things are established to the point where there's room (and call, I think) for more lightness and levity than was on display in the first game, both in the world and in the writing, but they took it too far.

I wouldn't say Fallout 2 is lacking in atmosphere, just that it's diluted by late-game inconsistency and pierced throughout with pop-culture goofiness and winks at the camera. If not for that, it could have had as well-crafted a "feel" as Fallout (perhaps better, even, considering that 2's world is both so much larger and so much more interconnected than that of the first).
 
FNV really gave me a F2 vibe because, as others pointed out, its more of a frontiers mindset than survival.

We have an entire state/nation with power, robots, standing army, etc. We have a total of 4 factions that have access to high technology instead of two (I would say more like one since the master and the lou were the only ones who really had true control of it).
 
Wumbology, it is clear there are in F2 a lot of well done dialogues/quests/some events in Fallout atmosphere... but still, they're in minority.

Talking rats, talking plants, inteligent radscorpions, talking deathclaws, wtf vicepresident of USA, super mutant having magic abilites, hakunin having telepathy without any limits, a lot of technology, no problems with survival and with access to food, ghost, wtf San Francisco, which doesn't fit to the rest of the game.

I'm not saying Fallout 2 is bad or something, I played it for over 600h in last 5 years, but Fallout 1 is more finished and more polished, Fallout 2 is just bigger, focusing on better gameplay.
 
Languorous_Maiar said:
Fallout 1 is serious and dark.
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it sure is

Fallout 2 is certainly hurt by the pop culture references and stuff, but the actual gameplay and world is good enough to outshine them. Just like the good bits in Fallout outweigh the bad.
 
I'm never counting special easter egg encounters, they're completely non-canon.
And well, there is a lot of some "funny" stuff, but not so much, like in Fo2.
 
Languorous_Maiar said:
Wumbology, it is clear there are in F2 a lot of well done dialogues/quests/some events in Fallout atmosphere... but still, they're in minority.

Talking rats, talking plants, inteligent radscorpions, talking deathclaws, wtf vicepresident of USA, super mutant having magic abilites, hakunin having telepathy without any limits, a lot of technology, no problems with survival and with access to food, ghost, wtf San Francisco, which doesn't fit to the rest of the game.

I'm not saying Fallout 2 is bad or something, I played it for over 600h in last 5 years, but Fallout 1 is more finished and more polished, Fallout 2 is just bigger, focusing on better gameplay.
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I think the access to food is a consequence of time passing, civilization thrives, they become better at it. And the single mutant that have "magic" abilities is not a contradiction to known (from Fallout) effects of the FEV. It's weird, it's relatively unlikely, but we've seen psikers and the master having psychic powers, so this isn't really a new thing; the new part on this is only that one of the green ones get to have this abilities. I agree on the other parts of your post. Fallout 2 does have a lot more silliness than Fallout.
 
I always thought that what was implied by Melchior was that he was tossing little creatures into the FEV and that they were mutating and coming after you. As far as lore contradictions go, I think "it's magic" would actually be preferable to that.
 
Yamu said:
I always thought that what was implied by Melchior was that he was tossing little creatures into the FEV and that they were mutating and coming after you. As far as lore contradictions go, I think "it's magic" would actually be preferable to that.
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Well, at least that wouldn't corrupt the previous lore.
But my point was that this kind of power wasn't new to Fallout, but rather new to a seemingly normal supermutant. In fact, the exact power he shows (making critters appear to fight on his side) was already used by the Master, when he made supermutants appear if you chose to fight him instead of either nuking the Cathedral or convincing him he was wrong all of the time.
EDIT: I didn't think about that tossing of critters to the FEV, but it makes sense to some extent.
 
Languorous_Maiar said:
but Fallout 1 is more finished and more polished
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Because Fo1 used Wasteland's well made plot.
Guardian->BOS
Servants of the Mushroom Cloud->Cathedral
but different role

Finster-> master
Zax->Zax
but different role

Guardian base->lost hills
Base cochise-> military base
Darwin-> Cathedral
sleeper's base->Glow
Vegas-> junk town, hub

faran brigo& fat freddy->killian darkwater&gizmo
robots->mutants
and same self destruction ending

it isn't my reasoning but I think it's quite reasonable

but that doesn't mean Fo1 is bad
Fo1's best job is adding time limit to give motivation to player.
there's no game that match with Fo1 with motivation.
but for story... well since it's copy of wasteland I doubt it.
 
It's not reasonable. There are certain nods to Wasteland in Fallout, but trying to pass the game off as a rip-off of Wasteland's non-existent plot is, well, stupid.

I can force a game to resemble any other title by drawing arbitrary conclusions. Eg. Ramirez -> Vault Dweller, Russians -> Supermutants, US Army -> Brotherhood, HEY CALL OF DUTY MODERN WARFARE 2 IS FALLOUT WHAT A RIP OFF
 
No, there's actually plot exist in Wasteland.
but it is most different thing between Fo1 and WL though.
at Fo1 Overseer gives you object for motivation.
but in WL what you have to do is just helping around and looks like there's no plot at all but no there is plot but it is hidden like mutant army in Fo1.

base of story would be smilar even it is not a Fallout at all. but it is odd to role of each place is too like each other.

you can get power armor at guardian/lost hills.
at there exist armed little bit religious guys.
at sleepers base/glow you should find card key to progress.
there you can find force(for WL: clone mechine, weapons, pseudo chitin armor. and information of Darwin , Finster and method to beat Finster. and for Fo1: information about FEV that can use to persuade Master.)
\
And for method of ending, both game uses same method: Self destruction.
 
But my point was that this kind of power wasn't new to Fallout, but rather new to a seemingly normal supermutant. In fact, the exact power he shows (making critters appear to fight on his side) was already used by the Master, when he made supermutants appear if you chose to fight him instead of either nuking the Cathedral or convincing him he was wrong all of the time.
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I can accept Hakunin abilites, but I can't acces how powerfull they are.
Master could only use his power, on everybody in his ROOM, Hakunin however, can send some message to Chosen One, who is in every part of north Core Region.
Also, I'm wonder when Hakunin and FEV met themselves. :wink:

I always thought that what was implied by Melchior was that he was tossing little creatures into the FEV and that they were mutating and coming after you. As far as lore contradictions go, I think "it's magic" would actually be preferable to that.
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Master didn't spawned super mutants from air, they just came from other parts of Vault, you know, someone is attacking their boss, and they're going to help him. It's sometimes little silly, if they actually show up 1 hex from you, well, blame engine.
 
Hakunin is a weird case. Fallout 1 had psykers in it, but they were useless, mad idiots created by the Master by direct FEV injection. Hakunin is apparently some kind of telepath and you can even record his visions on your Pip-Boy...
Sending telepathic messages to your dreams is pretty standard for all fictional shamans, though, it's what they do. I guess it's part of the tribal theme in Fallout 2.
My guess is that psychic powers in Fallout don't always have to come from FEV. For the Beastlords it was radiation, and I guess Hakunin and the Forecaster just got lucky in their natural mutations and/or natural selection.
I don't think Hakunin is all that powerful. He can only communicate with you in your sleep (a state of mind that has been well established in all kinds of fiction as being closer to some supernatural realms), and the fact that you can access the visions later is mostly just gameplay reason. In Fallout 1 you could also review your cutscenes even though there's no logical reason why you would have those videos in the first place :D
 
Fallout seems to follow the Larry Niven guide on psychic powers; if they could possibly exist they are worthless in general.

As other posters much better than me at this already explained, the chances of FEV 'creating' psykers was very random rather than the rule and outside a handful of people with 'beneficial' powers most of the psykers could really do little with them.

I don't think there will ever be any real telepaths or telekinetics in the Fallout universe and they don't really fit at all other than an occasional reference to 50's science fiction.

I do hope Bethesda doesn't get the ridiculous idea of introducing psychic powers the player can acquire.
 
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