OOC- Zombie Apocalypse Chapter 2- General Discussion

[Helbent4]

Night attack is a no-go. Our Protagonists don't have access to NVG's. Only flashlights. What better way to give you're position away?

Besides, you wouldn't want to get caught in a firefight with nazi-muffins that could outflank you, almost invisibly.

Best bet is surprise

Stompie,

I was making the reasonable assumption that the AF would have NVGs along. There's no reason why they wouldn't have them, they're standard issue. The Nazi goons won't be able to realistically pull off a flanking maneouver in the dark, NVGs or no. This is something that requires military training and exercises. Plus, as suggested there would be "flank security"... the militia aren't the only threat out there! The flanks, or sides and rear of any force need to be screened or protected.

The surface element would not have flashlights. They don't need them, and they won't work at anything other than short range anyways. All they need to do is lay down suppressing fire, which is not really aimed. A little more risky would be to have the helo above directing the ground elements, although there is the risk of SAMs or triple-A. (However, this is what your snipers are for, to suppress these kinds of threats.)

Remember, the main element uses the tunnels. Their task would be the same day or night, but it would be easier at night when less people are up and around. A daytime raid would be a lot easier to set up, but result in more casualties.

Another thought would be to set a fire to both distract the militiamen, provide smoke for cover and burn off the grass covert that makes surveillance difficult.

 

[SuAside]

the chopper we have isn't armored Helbent. SAM? AAA? shit, a simple assault rifle or a sniper can do some serious damage or even down the chopper...

(remember the american pilot that bailed out and shot a japanese zero plane down with a 1911 .45? *boom* headshot!)

anyway, some recreation:
http://www.freewebarcade.com/game/the-last-stand/

 

[Helbent4]

the chopper we have isn't armored Helbent. SAM? AAA? shit, a simple assault rifle or a sniper can do some serious damage or even down the chopper...

(remember the american pilot that bailed out and shot a japanese zero plane down with a 1911 .45? *boom* headshot!)

anyway, some recreation:
http://www.freewebarcade.com/game/the-last-stand/

Suaside,

If the bugger was hovering over the compound, yeah. But those surveillance devices are designed to work from a couple of miles away, to avoid alerting a suspect. That's where the helo would be orbiting. Good luck trying to hit a moving target at that range without a Vulcan, Duster, Stinger or Chapparal. Man, no one's that lucky.

(remember the american pilot that bailed out and shot a japanese zero plane down with a 1911 .45? *boom* headshot!)

Now that's what they call the "Golden BB"!

Thanks for the link!

 

[welsh]

Of course you guys can decide if you want to have a go at the PMS compound. But I would caution you against too much assumption and return to some of what you do know.

The PMS is well armed. Their effort to retrieve Horst indicates that they were well armed- heavy explosives, assault rifles with grenade launchers. Could they have something more potent in their arsenal? Perhaps after Waco they might have been able to acquire something that can bring down a helicopter- a shoulder launched SAM? A .50 Browning? Even a .5 cal anti-material rifle like the Barrett?

It can be assumed that they have been hit. But it is unclear what their casualties are or their numbers. They did seem to have a decent idea about your numbers and strength.

You will also note that Horst did have military training and their base is relatively near a military airbase. Furthermore, the guns that have been found in the locker could have been meant for the PMS. If they have military small arms, then they might have military training as well.

Also considering the scope of their organization- you can assume that they were a disciplined group capable of great violence.

You may wish to take note of some of the comments I have made about the demographics of Cheyenne. Your group has mobility- three trucks and supplies as well as an assortment of available cars. While there may be other survivors out there, holed up and defending themselves against the zombie horde, their numbers will increasinly decline as the day gets long.

Furthermore- the AFSF troopers are there to secure the communications base- the only real link that the missile base has to the outside world. This base is to provide intelligence and warning of a potential nuclear strike. It is unlikely that the USAF or the officers in charge would be willing to risk further causalties on a mission against a well armed and entrenched PMS.

I also agree- there are not enough USAF to really defend the motel and the T-Bone and a defense in depth would be better. But that requires organization and planning.

 

[Helbent4]

The PMS is well armed. Their effort to retrieve Horst indicates that they were well armed- heavy explosives, assault rifles with grenade launchers. Could they have something more potent in their arsenal? Perhaps after Waco they might have been able to acquire something that can bring down a helicopter- a shoulder launched SAM? A .50 Browning? Even a .5 cal anti-material rifle like the Barrett?

That's the assumption I'm making. Erica's willing to risk a cautios recce flyby of the compound at a safe distance. Assuming she makes it back alive. But not during the daytime.

It can be assumed that they have been hit. But it is unclear what their casualties are or their numbers. They did seem to have a decent idea about your numbers and strength.

We have no way of knowing what they have. I'm assuming the worst.

You will also note that Horst did have military training and their base is relatively near a military airbase. Furthermore, the guns that have been found in the locker could have been meant for the PMS. If they have military small arms, then they might have military training as well.

Also considering the scope of their organization- you can assume that they were a disciplined group capable of great violence.

I have no doubt as to their willingness to cause violence, although such groups tend to lose steam when their leader is removed.

Their performance against the T-Bone earlier was poorly done. Sure, they did a lot of damage but it was wasteful of men and weapons. This argues that without Horst in command their tactical leadership is compromised.

Having guns doesn't mean you know how to use them. You can get assault rifles on the open market to convert to full-autofire. You can even get grenade launchers and MGs on the black market. But proficiency requires constant training, which is expensive and hard to hide for covert organisations.

You may wish to take note of some of the comments I have made about the demographics of Cheyenne. Your group has mobility- three trucks and supplies as well as an assortment of available cars. While there may be other survivors out there, holed up and defending themselves against the zombie horde, their numbers will increasingly decline as the day gets long.

Without somewhere safe to go, this is better than nothing.

Furthermore- the AFSF troopers are there to secure the communications base- the only real link that the missile base has to the outside world. This base is to provide intelligence and warning of a potential nuclear strike. It is unlikely that the USAF or the officers in charge would be willing to risk further causalties on a mission against a well armed and entrenched PMS.

I also agree- there are not enough USAF to really defend the motel and the T-Bone and a defense in depth would be better. But that requires organization and planning.

Given that everything you say is true, then the PMS is a grave threat. With a little planning and coordination, they could take this position out in short order because as it is now, it's poorly suited for defense. So it's in the USAF's best interests to neutralise that clear threat.

 

[Helbent4]

Tactical Hand Signals:

Military hand signal FM's:

http://www.clairewolfe.com/wolfesblog/00001581.html

US SWAT hand signals:

http://www.airsoftgent.be/dbase/hands.htm

 

[welsh]

Personally, I think given the limited resources, the hostile environment and the urgency of the mission, the USAF would not abandon this site to go attack a potential threat.

Also, assuming perfect knowledge, I think getting Haussman and others to Omaha is more important than a risking aerial recon of the PMS base.

Should also note that most digital data is no longer available. If you are trying to download data or rely on a pre-existing computer network- chances are you are out of luck. With the exception of some limited radio use and Foo's little comm system, you guys are largely out of touch with the world nor can you rely on it for data.

I know- this is a pain in the ass. But this is a game of survival which means the obtacles have to be stacked against you.

 

[Helbent4]

Personally, I think given the limited resources, the hostile environment and the urgency of the mission, the USAF would not abandon this site to go attack a potential threat.

Without some kind of cooperation, then this indeed would be unfeasible. If we're talking about deploying a fire team and sniper element to harass the militia compound while another non-USAF element infiltrates underground, this is a lot more do-able. The remaining personnel plus the civilians should be able to hold on for a while.

The problem is, that threat isn't going away and they've already tried once. I'm not saying the walking dead are not a threat. But they don't have ranged weapons, explosives or some kind of organisation.

Another thing to consider about the dead is that if they've proven to be stronger than normal humans, then any makeshift barriers we throw up are not likely to slow them down much. They'll go through the barricades on the stairs like a hot knife through butter! We should be taking advantage of their weaknesses instead, like their lack of coordination and organisation. I'll post more on that later.

Also, assuming perfect knowledge, I think getting Haussman and others to Omaha is more important than a risking aerial recon of the PMS base.

I hope I've never implied this was not the main priority for Erica. The context of using the helo for recce has always contingent on it returning from this assignment. Not a given, by any means! This is also why I suggest a night attack, it gives the helo a chance to return.

Should also note that most digital data is no longer available. If you are trying to download data or rely on a pre-existing computer network- chances are you are out of luck. With the exception of some limited radio use and Foo's little comm system, you guys are largely out of touch with the world nor can you rely on it for data.

It would be nice to query the DOJ or DHS database on the PMS. I've been assuming that's not possible. Any luck on the encrypted police wireless computer network? Unless the transmitters and WAN servers are physically destroyed, there is a chance they're still functioning on battery power and will do so for a while.

Just because our plans are likely doomed to failure is no excuse to fail to plan in the first place...

 

[Stompie]

Its a safe assumption that the militants would have nightvision. Maybe the cheap stuff; like something off of the Viper line, or old Russian tech. And its also a safe assumption that the USAF boys wouldn't be willing to risk any assets with an attack, or their own supplies to aid an attack. All I'm saying is, a night attack would be a snafu. But then again, the whole situation is fubar.

Hell, might be better off to tunnel.

Time consuming? Yes. Labor intensive? Yes, Safe? Not really. Mr. Foo might know something about tunnels.

 

[Mr. Handy]

I held off on updating tonight, since Stompie hasn't yet posted and Duke is still in combat, but I intend to update Wednesday no matter what.

The USAF does have NVG, and there's a good chance the PMS does too. Further, it might not be the cheap stuff. Their weapons weren't cheap, so there's no reason to assume their other equipment would be.

At least some of the PMS does have military experience. Horst had been in the Army, and Buzz was former Airborne. Both of them are dead now, depriving the PMS of crucial leadership, but some of the other members might have similar backgrounds. Flip didn't, but he knew the others and would have known which ones did - had he survived. Even those who had no military background could have been trained by those who did.

For those going through the tunnels, it doesn't matter if it's day or night. However, there are a lot of unknowns. Nobody has been down there except for Kerry, and she doesn't have Navigate skill beyond base level. Trying to find a route to the PMS compound underground would be tricky. A compass would help, but even so there may be other difficulties. Might the tunnels be dangerous? Does the PMS know about them now?

Zombie numbers are finite even though they seem endless, but you'll have to consider if you have the means to eliminate all of them nearby. You have enough ammo for now, but your supplies of that are finite and it's doubtful you have enough to wipe out all the zombies in the vicinity - which means you'd need to find a way to acquire more.

You're right about the barricades, Tony. They will buy time, but ultimately if the zombies reach them they will get through. Worse, because the roof overhangs the balcony and the bottoms of the staircases themselves are underneath the balcony, it will not be possible to fire at the zombies tearing at the barricades from those positions. Once the barricades are mostly gone, someone on the balcony might be able to fire at the zombies on the stairs below, but at that point it would be too late. Perhaps the only way to stop zombies that have reached the barricades would be to engage them on the ground.

I also saw The Last Stand; there was a link on Brainstock, the Urban Dead bulletin board. I only had time to try it once, and it's pretty good so far. I almost made it past the first night, but a couple of zombies made it to the barricades and it didn't seem like I could hit them no matter how many times I fired, until the barricades went down. Then I took out one zombie, but the second got me before I could finish it. I'll have to try it again this weekend.

 

[Stompie]

Hey Mr. Handy. Sorry I havent posted. I've neglected to inform you that I may be coming in and out. I've reciently made the decision to move to san diego in the coming months, so - There is alot of preperation, as far as aquiring extra money, paperwork, and other planning. I'm fine, as of now, but this has the potential to sap alot of my spare time.

 

[Helbent4]

Its a safe assumption that the militants would have nightvision. Maybe the cheap stuff; like something off of the Viper line, or old Russian tech. And its also a safe assumption that the USAF boys wouldn't be willing to risk any assets with an attack, or their own supplies to aid an attack. All I'm saying is, a night attack would be a snafu. But then again, the whole situation is fubar.

It's kind of "damned if you do, damned if you don't" situation. I'm of the mind that if you don't have a good defensive position, then bring the fight to the enemy. And the Motel/Truck-Stop is a poor defensive position at the moment. One sniper could keep the whole place pinned down, one GL would be enough to take out the defending positions.

Literally, if we don't go to them they're likely coming for us.

If a fire team and a sniper element equipped with NVGs cannot pull off a diversionary attack at night, then the US military has completely wasted its money. Unless the PMS is trained to the level of the USAF personnel, then the USAF has the advantage. Plus, there are a few things that you can do to neutralise NVGs. In the end a night operation, properly done, would be no worse than a day op, and probably more successful.

There already are tunnels into the PMS compound. More tunnels elsewhere might be useful! It's hard to say whether the PMS knows they lead to the diner or not, especially if they just dumped the girl down there to die. If they do know about it, I think they've got enough on their plate to worry about it for the moment. But again, it's hard to say unless we could capture and interrogate one of them. Bobby-trapping the tunnel of otherwise locking it off would be wise in the mean time.

 

[Helbent4]

I also saw The Last Stand; there was a link on Brainstock, the Urban Dead bulletin board. I only had time to try it once, and it's pretty good so far. I almost made it past the first night, but a couple of zombies made it to the barricades and it didn't seem like I could hit them no matter how many times I fired, until the barricades went down. Then I took out one zombie, but the second got me before I could finish it. I'll have to try it again this weekend.

I made it through the Last Stand the first time I played... It's hard to shoot at zombies right at the barricade. If there are people there, they will tend to block your aim and you can't really get the angle on them. To remedy this, move around behind them to shoot as directly across as you can. This should work, you can shoot through your own people.

Also, I found the SMGs would waste ammo if you started shooting before the "reloading" animation was complete, so wait until that's over to resume firing. Lastly, I found the hunting rifle was the best, but to go for head shots aim for the neck as it seems to shoot high and lead the target if it's at an angle.

Lastly, remember to read the diary on a daily basis! If nothing else, it's amusing.

 

[Steve-the-Zombie-Killer]

MR. Handy,
Sorry I have not had to time to post. I am still in DC looking for jobs and that is number 1 on my plate with weight loss being a close second. My friend only has dial up internet so it is kind of hit and miss when I can get on here. So until you hear otherwise, most likly a couple of weeks, I am temporarly giving up my characters for you to control. I fully expect to take back over once everything settles down but for now I am not sure that I have the time to post every time I need to. Kind of like when I think about it I do not have the time and when I have the time I do not think about it.
So for now:
Have McCain agree about the civilizans helping out
Have Lewis keep bringing stuff up and connecting it
Have Alice keep fixing the gun and flirting with David
Have Jim keep trying to figure out how to get into that grate

Do me a favor and please try not to kill anyone off this time around?

 

[Mr. Handy]

It's okay if you can't post for a while, just let me know (which you've done). Stompie, you might want to leave standing orders for your characters like Steve did so I can run them when you're not around. I didn't want to make a life-or-death decision for Duke in your place though.

Steve, Jim Kerr will try to treat his injury, since until that's done he won't be able to try the grate again for a while anyway. Alice might finish fixing her rifle soon, so you should let me know what you want her to do next. And I haven't killed anyone off for a while. Lynne was only horribly wounded.

 

[SuAside]

Luke saw to his dismay that his M-14 had jammed.

i thought the M14 failure was 00? what is it then? 99?

 

[welsh]

With Stompie and Steve busy, I am wondering if the game should slow down a bit. THe faster it moves, the harder it is for people to keep up. But if it moves to slowly, it loses momentum.

Difficult issue to balance.

 

[Helbent4]

With Stompie and Steve busy, I am wondering if the game should slow down a bit. THe faster it moves, the harder it is for people to keep up. But if it moves to slowly, it loses momentum.

Difficult issue to balance.

Welsh,

Difficult issues indeed. Personally, I'm okay either way. A fast-moving game is exciting, but if the players can't post due to circumstances beyond their control then whaddaya gonna do?

From my experience running AFMBE play-by-post, things can slow down but as long as they don't stop altogether, the players will pick up the pace and get re-interested.

 

[Mr. Handy]

I had looked it up in the Delta Green gun list earlier, and the M14A1 does malfunction on a 99+. Just be glad you didn't roll 100, or you might have hit Kerry instead! Its malfunction numbers are 99-98-85.

Malfunction numbers for some of the other rifles in the game:
M4, M16A2: 98-87-40 (keep them clean!)
Barrett M82A1, Ruger Mini 14: 98-96-75
M24: 00-00-90 (very reliable)
Winchester M1894, M1 Garand: 99-98-85

Regarding game speed: I've been posting whenever I have time and the other players have had a chance to post. Usually I don't have enough time to move things along quickly anyway. Last week was an exception, as I got finished with training a few hours early and had time to write. Since everybody had posted but Stompie and Steve, who had said they wouldn't be able to post for a while, I was able to make two updates in two days. I didn't post during the weekend, though, waiting until Monday to give others a chance to post. Normally I'll only be able to post twice a week, which is probably the right pace, but if all the players are able to keep current and I get a chance, I might speed that up. If time is a problem or players have a hard time getting back in, I could slow down to once per week temporarily.

It is hard when players have to take a break from the game and then have to catch up again, but putting the entire game on hold would make things worse - then everyone has to get back into it, not just one or two people.

 

[welsh]

I agree that putting the game on hold is a bad idea. Only when a chapter ends should we do that and this chapter is quite unfinished.

I wish we had more players, to be honest. I am glad with what we have at present, but I am regularly worried about attrition.

SUmmer is strange- some come, others go.