Outer Worlds - Massive Disappointment

Discussion in 'General Gaming and Hardware Forum' started by Atomic Postman, Apr 22, 2020.

  1. Gizmojunk

    Gizmojunk Venerable Relic of the Wastes

    Nov 26, 2007
    Inventing a role is not a requirement to play a role. RPGs are about playing a role... and arguably the best ones include immutable character history to at least some extent. You don't start Baldur's Gate as a fresh adventurer from Baldur's Gate; you start as Gorion's ward, and bhaalspawn. Is Serovoc any less of a role than Imoen, or the player generated PC?

    Also: Clarify that 'Role' is not 'Job', role is the identity; like the role of Hamlet, Hunter Thompson, or Gandalf.

    How would Gandalf react to a given situation? How is that different from Saruman, or Skeletor?
     
  2. Atomic Postman

    Atomic Postman Vault Archives Overseer

    Mar 16, 2013

    I already reneged on in this same thread inventing a role is not a requirement no but it's a tentpole feature. For the same reason that if I were playing in a tabletop campaign, the DM imposing required background features isn't necessarily poor form but the more they do it the more worrisome it becomes, and the more I'd hope that the campaign would make up for lack of agency in other areas. Hence my point about compensation.
     
  3. Gizmojunk

    Gizmojunk Venerable Relic of the Wastes

    Nov 26, 2007
    Have you played the RPG Unrest?

    It not only starts you as a little girl [anxious about an arranged marriage, no less], but later swaps characters on the player in some chapters; you play a reptilian diplomat in one of them. The diplomat is a guest of the (Human) king; a king who is about to have a riot/revolution if not careful. The reptilian diplomat is given many choices that could affect how their species is perceived, and thus the futures of the two kingdoms (as allies, as begrudged saviors, as opponents).
     
    Last edited: Jul 3, 2020
  4. Atomic Postman

    Atomic Postman Vault Archives Overseer

    Mar 16, 2013
    Sure, and as I said I'd be willing to concede that pre-fabbed backgrounds aren't exclusive to RPGs especially if the other areas of choice and concequence are high. For the exact same reason in a tabletop "One Shots" with heavily skewed/specific characters (of which I've DMed for myself) are a thing. My contention was with your original point that RPGs are as simply defined as "playing a role" which I think you'd agree is really not the case. Otherwise I've got a game where you play the role of a Resource War veteran with a wife who's a lawyer to sell you.
     
  5. Eumesmopo

    Eumesmopo Learned to love the bomb

    188
    Dec 6, 2012
    Disco has some top notch writing, on par with Planescape Torment I dare say. The RPG and choice and consequences aspects of it are mostly diluted and illusory through, which is something that seriously bummed me out and left me disappointed with the game though. Specially with the ending forcing me to do something that I justifiably did not want to do. Giving as few spoilers as possible; the ending forces you to do something bad to a character that you might actually sympathize with, and not only that but to do so for the sake of the interests of characters that you would be far less likely to sympathize with. There is simply no option to side with the guy against the interests of all the other assholes involved.
     
  6. Gizmojunk

    Gizmojunk Venerable Relic of the Wastes

    Nov 26, 2007
    If a Roleplaying game is not defined by playing a role, then what does define it? If the answer includes making a role to play... then isn't that circular?—except that playing a role is not supposed to define it?
     
  7. Atomic Postman

    Atomic Postman Vault Archives Overseer

    Mar 16, 2013
    RPGs are hard to define generally, as I said before as a rule of thumb I'd define RPGs as games that attempt to emulate the experience of tabletop roleplaying and their rulebooks. My point was that an RPG isn't simplistic to define, and has numerous facets. Saying an RPG is a game where you "play a role" is about as useful as saying an FPS is a game where you "click on something" because it's so massively broad.
     
  8. Gizmojunk

    Gizmojunk Venerable Relic of the Wastes

    Nov 26, 2007
    Well, a shooter lets the player shoot. It's a distinction in Fallout (1&2) that the player never shoots; the player indicates a target, and the PC does their very best to hit it (as if they'd chosen it themselves). That kind of behavior in a shooter is terrible; it's not a shooter at all*. In an RPG, the success and failure rests upon the PC; failure is never the player's fault.

    My telltale signs for RPGs are (the above, of course), and also the treatment of game content. The game has its world & encounter resource, and uses it to depict the meandering life of the PC; meaning that choices open doors, and shut them by the choices the PC has made. That the PC (and thus the player) only ever sees what the PC can manage to reveal by their accomplishments—and failures.


    * It's not an RPG at all either [IMO], because it allows the player to miss (out of character) for the PC, and for the PC to hit because of the player; making hits they shouldn't be able to—for lack of skill or self confidence. Reliance upon player control can (and does) either hamstring or enhance the PC depending upon the individual player; as does dialog that the player understands, but that the PC should not.... and vice versa.
     
    Last edited: Jul 3, 2020
  9. Iprovidelittlepianos

    Iprovidelittlepianos Where'd That 6th Toe Come From?

    495
    May 12, 2020
    How so exactly? It seems about “autistic” as any other thread on this site. Just a bunch of nerds with nothing better to do. Not that that’s a bad thing.
     
  10. Gnarle

    Gnarle First time out of the vault

    25
    Dec 12, 2018
    Fun fact:

    Pavarti will help you murder all of her friends and family if you want, and then never mentions it.

    Funny because there's a loading screen tip that mentions verisimilitude, which, helping some stranger who you've known for ten minutes murder everyone you grew up with clearly falls within.
     
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  11. Atomic Postman

    Atomic Postman Vault Archives Overseer

    Mar 16, 2013
    Even New Vegas had a system for NPC Companions going "Hey. Fucking stop." when you shot up the wrong people.
     
  12. Dragula

    Dragula Stormtrooper oTO Orderite

    Nov 6, 2008
    It goes from "I don't like this game" to "What is defined as an RPG" to "This is my favourite homosexual character".
     
  13. TorontoReign

    TorontoReign Boom Boom Staff Member Moderator

    Apr 1, 2005
    That is the natural progression of all conversation in 2020. Next someone brings up the best POC.
     
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  14. Iprovidelittlepianos

    Iprovidelittlepianos Where'd That 6th Toe Come From?

    495
    May 12, 2020
    T-ray.
     
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  15. Morgan_

    Morgan_ The Fool

    Jul 3, 2020
    In the process of playing this now. Parvati and Nyoka are the best followers by a mile. Vicar is a neat concept, "Space Catholic", but nothing comes of it. You'd think a Devout man on the outside and a Heretical one on the inside [most Catholics are, especially the smart/Jesuit ones (or lazy ones lol)] would be good character material, but I guess not.

    The environments are pretty out dated. They feel of the same quality as FO3 and NV dlc environments. Not horrible, but not good either. Linear and forgettable.

    Also, I know this game is a parody, but the way it gives you, largely, black and white options to gray situations is really frustrating. Damned if you do and damned if you don't, regardless of what you choose (Within reason. There are actually bad options).

    And the options aren't really bad in a parody kinda way, but just in a bad kinda way.
    The writing is often bad, or insulting much of the time as well.

    New Vegas is Obsidian's best effort and was a fluke as far as it seems now. And to think it took the help of Bethesda to do it... maybe they weren't that bad after all? :D


    Score: ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ /10
     
  16. Gnarle

    Gnarle First time out of the vault

    25
    Dec 12, 2018
    I hated Nyoka so much that I was literally worried I was being racist. I literally had to reassure myself that there were other black female characters that I liked I was so instantly turned off by her. I think she just comes across as really fake to me or something so there's an alarm bell that goes off in my head that she's not to be trusted.

    I like parvarti, even though she's just a clone of that girl from firefly. But her sidequest is so dumb. You go on a bunch of fetchquests so she can go on a date with a girl she barely knows. I'm good on that.
     
    • [Rad] [Rad] x 1
  17. CT Phipps

    CT Phipps Venerable Relic of the Wastes

    Sep 17, 2016
    Honestly, I feel like the Vicar was written by two or three different writers.

    Because at one point, you talk to a FUCKING GHOST and he admits he now no longer believes in the supernatural but it has made him more spiritual.

    What the fuck man.
     
  18. Big No

    Big No Watch as I open and close this door

    697
    Oct 28, 2014


    A bit late to the party but I never knew how much the Outer Worlds was so much like Fallout 4. Even the Board is like Institute-lite.
     
  19. I also appreciate that Vicar Max is basically The Dopamine Cleric and Hassknetch, and throws out fucking references that have been on this board. It's not even fully fleshed out either.

    It's not like anyone will ever believe things that sounds so self-absorbed and absurd, but it's the goddamn truth. I know yall read this forum. I am watching you.


    *Edit* @Hassknecht fuck it. Change me back to The Dopamine Cleric.
     
  20. Hassknecht

    Hassknecht For hate's sake. Staff Member Admin Orderite

    Aug 16, 2010
    K.
    What references? Still haven't played the game...