OXM outtakes hit blog

Yeah, kids these days... combat in Fallout sucked, sneaking sucked, AI sucked... what the fuck are you doing on a Fallout forum, if I may ask?

I'm actually glad that they're trying to improve some of the aspects of the game, based on some of the glaring problems with Oblivion.
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Do you even realize how wrong that sounds? Improve sneaking in Fallout based on the problems in Oblivion? How about improving it based on the problems in Fallout? How about, you know, improving Fallout based on Fallout and not on Oblivion. How about designing the whole things as something more than an Oblivion mod?

Jesuit fucking Christ!
 
FeelTheRads said:
Yeah, kids these days... combat in Fallout sucked, sneaking sucked, AI sucked... what the fuck are you doing on a Fallout forum, if I may ask?
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Unsurprisingly, a lot of us play role playing games for the role playing aspect.

Do you even realize how wrong that sounds? Improve sneaking in Fallout based on the problems in Oblivion?
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It's not really news that Fallout is based on the Oblivion framework...

... at least kids have an excuse.
 
FeelTheRads said:
Yeah, kids these days... combat in Fallout sucked, sneaking sucked, AI sucked... what the fuck are you doing on a Fallout forum, if I may ask?

I'm actually glad that they're trying to improve some of the aspects of the game, based on some of the glaring problems with Oblivion.
Click to expand...

Do you even realize how wrong that sounds? Improve sneaking in Fallout based on the problems in Oblivion? How about improving it based on the problems in Fallout? How about, you know, improving Fallout based on Fallout and not on Oblivion. How about designing the whole things as something more than an Oblivion mod?

Jesuit fucking Christ!
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1. Whats wrong with discussing the things we didn't like about Fallout, while on a Fallout messageboard, in the hopes of seeing those things improved in the newest iteration of the game. If we didn't like the game, we wouldn't be here to see things hopefully improved...just like everyone else.

2. Fallout 2 and Fallout 3 are totally different engines, so the mechanics of sneak in Fallout/FO2 don't really apply. Though, since FO3 is being developed with the same engine as Oblivion, it kind of makes sense(at least to me) to critique it's flaws with Oblivion as the backdrop since it is the most recent ancestor/common denominator.
 
So we can sneak right up to the glowing red "don't break in here" doors, very immersive. It's like they ruin 4 things for every 1 they fix.
 
Xenophile said:
You always see people compare an aspect of a "multi-faceted" game to that of a pretty single-faceted game. Yeah, Fallout three may not have as many types of gameplay as some games out there, but it is going to have a pretty good variety of play styles. Sneaking is one, but you can't expect it to get the level of attention as a game that it's WHOLE POINT is sneaking.
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I think this is a very valid argument, as one shouldn't bash GTA for not having simulator-accurate driving or flying physics and controls, or for being a worse shooter than, say, Gears of War. In spreading the gameplay to various genres, the game cannot be expected to play like the state-of-the-art outings for each of them.

The problem is, Fallout is an RPG, and as such, should be a different beast than GTA altogether. I completely disagree with Todd Howard's "RPGs are the ultimate genre-blender" philosophy, especially if it results in a half-assed attempt at each different genre. It sounds, to me, like another byproduct of their move to FPP, since it now HAS to be part shooter, part sneaker.
 
Jesuit said:
Unsurprisingly, a lot of us play role playing games for the role playing aspect.
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Damn right! I love fallout despite it's flaws. Unforntunately some of those were their systems. I loved the setting and the options of play. Combat was entertaining, but clumsy. Sneaking retarded. Writing was pretty good, but not great.

All in all it was a great game... but you have to accept that some of us fans are anything but disapointed about changes in the underlying system.
 
UniversalWolf said:
The sneaking in Fallout 1 and 2 didn't suck.
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And that is an opinion, just like me saying that I thought sneaking in FO/FO2 wasn't very good. Doesn't make you are wrong or I am wrong, it's just a difference of opinion.

I agree on the genre blending aspect, but I think RPG's can be more than just 3rd person ISO. Arena, Daggerfall and Morrowind were all praised for their writing and their stories. Oblivion certainly took a detour by going to all vocal. I would much rather read a book of text than hear very short, stubby vocal responses...
 
Obviously some of you didn't get the memo from Bethesda.

Fallout 1 and 2 were totally crappy games that no one in their right mind would want to play in this day and age of HD content.

All of the systems were poorly implemented and thanks to the wisdom of the design team at Bethesda they can now be realized without being all crappy like they were in Fallout 1 and 2.

Sneaking sucked, the viewpoint sucked, turn-based combat sucked, SPECIAL sucked, the graphics sucked, the music sucked, the characters sucked, the writing sucked, and generally the game just sucked.

They did get the Bloody Mess perk right though, and the Bip Boy or whatever the hell he's called was ok too.

Thank god we have Bethesda to make a Fallout game the way the original team wanted to, but simply couldn't.
 
Please show me one statement where Bethesda has done anything but heap praise at the feet of the old Fallouts.
 
Beelzebud said:
Obviously some of you didn't get the memo from Bethesda.

Fallout 1 and 2 were totally crappy games that no one in their right mind would want to play in this day and age of HD content.

All of the systems were poorly implemented and thanks to the wisdom of the design team at Bethesda they can now be realized without being all crappy like they were in Fallout 1 and 2.

Sneaking sucked, the viewpoint sucked, turn-based combat sucked, SPECIAL sucked, the graphics sucked, the music sucked, the characters sucked, the writing sucked, and generally the game just sucked.

They did get the Bloody Mess perk right though, and the Bip Boy or whatever the hell he's called was ok too.

Thank god we have Bethesda to make a Fallout game the way the original team wanted to, but simply couldn't.
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You forgot to put 'sarcasm' in it. :roll:
No. Today's RPG is heading the old day where people proclaim RPG is dead due to mass shitty title and same old crappy game setting.
 
Anani Masu said:
Please show me one statement where Bethesda has done anything but heap praise at the feet of the old Fallouts.
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Buying out the license and turning Fallout 3 into an Action-RPG that is made with the Xbox 360 as the target platform says it all.
 
Anani Masu said:
Please show me one statement where Bethesda has done anything but heap praise at the feet of the old Fallouts.
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You know, Anani Masu, being very anal retentive like you are isn't going to get people to adapt their way of talking, it's just going to annoy people.

Beelzebud makes perfectly clear what he means, Bethesda is not showing respect to the design intentions of Fallout 1 and 2. Y'know how imitation is the sincerest form of flattery? The opposite is true as well.

Harping on the way he phrases it is weak. And annoying.
 
Anani Masu said:
Please show me one statement where Bethesda has done anything but heap praise at the feet of the old Fallouts.
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Well, 4-pixel chairs? If you only want one. I think most of their criticism is indirect, though. Like, "we changed this and it works better now/people react to it better now/it's more up to date now".
 
He didn't say anything close to that though. He was insinuating that Bethesda was running a campaign to retroactively discredit the original Fallouts and I asked him for anything to back that up. Their decision not to use the all of the same mechanics is not the same as "Bethesda says Fallout 1 and 2 were totally crappy games".
 
Anani Masu said:
He was insinuating that Bethesda was running a campaign to retroactively discredit the original Fallouts and I asked him for anything to back that up.
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Since the tone of his post was obviously one of jocular sarcasm, don't you think you're taking what he "insinuated" slightly too literally, and seriously?

I bet you're great fun at parties. The moment anyone starts jabbing about a great new car or partner you demand proof in receipts, fotos and other documented evidence.
 
No, because there is a habit of, even jokingly, building up these bullshit mythologies just to help simplify things to a black and white worldview. I still hear crap about how Troika had arranged a deal with Interplay and were gonna make the REAL FO3 when B€¥h£$duh swept in and stole it away. This is how long after Leonard Boyarsky went on RPG Codex to say this was bullshit and Troika was never really in the running?
 
Anani Masu said:
I still hear crap about how Troika had arranged a deal with Interplay and were gonna make the REAL FO3 when B€¥h£$duh swept in and stole it away. This is how long after Leonard Boyarsky went on RPG Codex to say this was bullshit and Troika was never really in the running?
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I'm afraid the course of events is not as simple as either statement you made there. I don't think anyone knows the exact course of events, 'cept Herve Caen, but suffice to say that both "Troika was robbed" and "Troika was never in the running" are untrue.

So, see how easy it is to fall into the oversimplification trap? Let he who is without sin cast the first stone.
 
but suffice to say that both "Troika was robbed" and "Troika was never in the running" are untrue.
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BN is right, you can find all the known details of the events in the archives here. It was an interesting week, with people trying to see who would get the license, and if Troika would get a deal for a new PA game. Dhruin, bless him, and a very well known gaming reporter beat us in finding Beth had got the final deal, later we got the scoop on the end of Troika. Interesting days, but also some really sad memories from those times.
 
Despite the fact that I didn't enjoy the sneaking of the original fallouts, I'm still a fan of the games.

Jesus, it seems that if I don't kowtow to the 100% perfectness of the original Fallout here, I get jumped all over.

Remove the rose coloured glasses folks, and recall that everything isn't perfect in FO1 or 2, and mentioning it shouldn't result in a verbal dropkick.

As mentioned above, based on the style of game that FO3 is GOING to be, I'm glad tthat Beth is trying to improve the stealth aspects of the game.
 
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